Nevada set to join NPVIC (UPDATE: vetoed by idiot governor)

[emailking]

So far the only argument against NPVIC on this thread is "Democrats just want to win election more/easier".    Which is extremely weak.   It doesn't address the actual issues behind the EC/popular vote whatsoever.

My argument is actually that is all secretly Democrats want, because they either don't understand what the EC is for or don't understand what a republic is.

They know what a republic is. They want the country to be more democratic and less of a republic.

The Electoral College has no relation to being a Republic.   If it did then I believe the United States is one of the extreme few "Republics" on Earth.

I (and I believe he) mean republic in this sense:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic#United_States

The electoral college is a step away from pure democracy to indirect control.

[Tintrlvr]

So far the only argument against NPVIC on this thread is "Democrats just want to win election more/easier".    Which is extremely weak.   It doesn't address the actual issues behind the EC/popular vote whatsoever.

My argument is actually that is all secretly Democrats want, because they either don't understand what the EC is for or don't understand what a republic is.

They know what a republic is. They want the country to be more democratic and less of a republic.

The Electoral College has no relation to being a Republic.   If it did then I believe the United States is one of the extreme few "Republics" on Earth.

I (and I believe he) mean republic in this sense:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic#United_States

The electoral college is a step away from pure democracy to indirect control.

But... it isn't. If the Electoral College were actually a deliberative body (which, I do agree, was the original intent, but regardless of that it certainly isn't one now and really never has been), you might have a point. But it's not a deliberative body. All the Electoral College does is bundle a bunch of separate democratic elections into one result in a slightly disproportionate way. That's not republicanism at all.

[SteveRogers]

So far the only argument against NPVIC on this thread is "Democrats just want to win election more/easier".    Which is extremely weak.   It doesn't address the actual issues behind the EC/popular vote whatsoever.

My argument is actually that is all secretly Democrats want, because they either don't understand what the EC is for or don't understand what a republic is.

They know what a republic is. They want the country to be more democratic and less of a republic.

The Electoral College has no relation to being a Republic.   If it did then I believe the United States is one of the extreme few "Republics" on Earth.

I (and I believe he) mean republic in this sense:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic#United_States

The electoral college is a step away from pure democracy to indirect control.

Yes, the United States is a representative democracy. No, an electoral college is not a requisite characteristic of a republic. There are plenty of other republics. No one else has an electoral college.

Even if indirect election for indirect election’s sake was a positive ideal to strive for, the current electoral college doesn’t fulfill that goal. The founders intended for the electors to be a group of wise men who would meet and deliberate to elect a president. And yes, the purpose was to insulate the presidency from the will of the masses. The current electoral college bears little resemblance to that system. Instead, it is a silly math game that merely arbitrarily changes which segments of the public presidential candidates need to appeal to.

[emailking]

We can agree to disagree on whether it's characteristic of a republic or not. It seems to me to apply. I do think the EC should be abolished.

[Nyvin]

There is still not substantive argument against going to the popular vote to elect a President in this thread.

[Badger]

So far the only argument against NPVIC on this thread is "Democrats just want to win election more/easier".    Which is extremely weak.   It doesn't address the actual issues behind the EC/popular vote whatsoever.

My argument is actually that is all secretly Democrats want, because they either don't understand what the EC is for or don't understand what a republic is. That and if the popular vote does go Trump or another R's way, the hypocrisy will be blatantly apparent.  Where was this anti-EC stuff during the Obama years? Right.

Wow. Not that you're doing a fine enough job at shooting yourself in the foot I'm trying to make arguments wake up at synchronized swimmer I described, but your post here indicates you either have no concept of what a republic means, or rather what the Electoral College means, or more likely just being disingenuous. Has not been since literally about 1800 a group of big thinking Republican Representatives do the States elect vote for whom they think in their infinite smartness should be the best present. Even if one supposes, is is a friend asleep anti-democratic and archaea argument that this is a brilliant idea, again, that. Is. Not. What. The. Electoral. College. Has. Been. For. Over. 200. Years! Anyone with a sixth grade education in American history would know this!

All the Electoral College is is handful of hand-picked political hacks of nominal importance to their states who are selected to show up several weeks after the election and in a r o t e display of ceremonialism all cast their ballot 4 the candidate they pledged a year earlier to support. The fact that once in awhile a particular hack casts a meaningless protest vote for someone other than who made chosen, is again utterly irrelevant to any feasible definition of republicanism. Repair a sitter recap, not only is your argument for republicanism over direct democracy inherently flawed, elitist, and patently not in good faith, your support of the Electoral College as a tool to encourage republicanism is it self completely erroneous.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

So far the only argument against NPVIC on this thread is "Democrats just want to win election more/easier".    Which is extremely weak.   It doesn't address the actual issues behind the EC/popular vote whatsoever.

My argument is actually that is all secretly Democrats want, because they either don't understand what the EC is for or don't understand what a republic is. That and if the popular vote does go Trump or another R's way, the hypocrisy will be blatantly apparent.  Where was this anti-EC stuff during the Obama years? Right.

Wow. Not that you're doing a fine enough job at shooting yourself in the foot I'm trying to make arguments wake up at synchronized swimmer I described, but your post here indicates you either have no concept of what a republic means, or rather what the Electoral College means, or more likely just being disingenuous. Has not been since literally about 1800 a group of big thinking Republican Representatives do the States elect vote for whom they think in their infinite smartness should be the best present. Even if one supposes, is is a friend asleep anti-democratic and archaea argument that this is a brilliant idea, again, that. Is. Not. What. The. Electoral. College. Has. Been. For. Over. 200. Years! Anyone with a sixth grade education in American history would know this!

All the Electoral College is is handful of hand-picked political hacks of nominal importance to their states who are selected to show up several weeks after the election and in a r o t e display of ceremonialism all cast their ballot 4 the candidate they pledged a year earlier to support. The fact that once in awhile a particular hack casts a meaningless protest vote for someone other than who made chosen, is again utterly irrelevant to any feasible definition of republicanism. Repair a sitter recap, not only is your argument for republicanism over direct democracy inherently flawed, elitist, and patently not in good faith, your support of the Electoral College as a tool to encourage republicanism is it self completely erroneous.

Don't scramble your brain using all those big words, aww it's too late. Get off your high horse, bro.

[Badger]

So far the only argument against NPVIC on this thread is "Democrats just want to win election more/easier".    Which is extremely weak.   It doesn't address the actual issues behind the EC/popular vote whatsoever.

My argument is actually that is all secretly Democrats want, because they either don't understand what the EC is for or don't understand what a republic is. That and if the popular vote does go Trump or another R's way, the hypocrisy will be blatantly apparent.  Where was this anti-EC stuff during the Obama years? Right.

Wow. Not that you're doing a fine enough job at shooting yourself in the foot I'm trying to make arguments wake up at synchronized swimmer I described, but your post here indicates you either have no concept of what a republic means, or rather what the Electoral College means, or more likely just being disingenuous. Has not been since literally about 1800 a group of big thinking Republican Representatives do the States elect vote for whom they think in their infinite smartness should be the best present. Even if one supposes, is is a friend asleep anti-democratic and archaea argument that this is a brilliant idea, again, that. Is. Not. What. The. Electoral. College. Has. Been. For. Over. 200. Years! Anyone with a sixth grade education in American history would know this!

All the Electoral College is is handful of hand-picked political hacks of nominal importance to their states who are selected to show up several weeks after the election and in a r o t e display of ceremonialism all cast their ballot 4 the candidate they pledged a year earlier to support. The fact that once in awhile a particular hack casts a meaningless protest vote for someone other than who made chosen, is again utterly irrelevant to any feasible definition of republicanism. Repair a sitter recap, not only is your argument for republicanism over direct democracy inherently flawed, elitist, and patently not in good faith, your support of the Electoral College as a tool to encourage republicanism is it self completely erroneous.

Don't scramble your brain using all those big words, aww it's too late. Get off your high horse, bro.

An embarrassingly weak finale to an embarrassingly weak argument Bravo. Come back when you have even a scintilla of non projectionist power-grabbing to support your "argument".

Fully expecting of course, that the approximate a time frame will be quarter past never.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

So far the only argument against NPVIC on this thread is "Democrats just want to win election more/easier".    Which is extremely weak.   It doesn't address the actual issues behind the EC/popular vote whatsoever.

My argument is actually that is all secretly Democrats want, because they either don't understand what the EC is for or don't understand what a republic is. That and if the popular vote does go Trump or another R's way, the hypocrisy will be blatantly apparent.  Where was this anti-EC stuff during the Obama years? Right.

Wow. Not that you're doing a fine enough job at shooting yourself in the foot I'm trying to make arguments wake up at synchronized swimmer I described, but your post here indicates you either have no concept of what a republic means, or rather what the Electoral College means, or more likely just being disingenuous. Has not been since literally about 1800 a group of big thinking Republican Representatives do the States elect vote for whom they think in their infinite smartness should be the best present. Even if one supposes, is is a friend asleep anti-democratic and archaea argument that this is a brilliant idea, again, that. Is. Not. What. The. Electoral. College. Has. Been. For. Over. 200. Years! Anyone with a sixth grade education in American history would know this!

All the Electoral College is is handful of hand-picked political hacks of nominal importance to their states who are selected to show up several weeks after the election and in a r o t e display of ceremonialism all cast their ballot 4 the candidate they pledged a year earlier to support. The fact that once in awhile a particular hack casts a meaningless protest vote for someone other than who made chosen, is again utterly irrelevant to any feasible definition of republicanism. Repair a sitter recap, not only is your argument for republicanism over direct democracy inherently flawed, elitist, and patently not in good faith, your support of the Electoral College as a tool to encourage republicanism is it self completely erroneous.

Don't scramble your brain using all those big words, aww it's too late. Get off your high horse, bro.

An embarrassingly weak finale to an embarrassingly weak argument Bravo. Come back when you have even a scintilla of non projectionist power-grabbing to support your "argument".

Fully expecting of course, that the approximate a time frame will be quarter past never.

[Politician]

https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/sisolak-vetoes-bill-that-would-pledge-nevadas-support-to-winner-of-national-popular-vote-reject-electoral-college

Sisolak vetoed the legislation.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

good for him.

[YE]

good for him.

[Pandaguineapig]

The NPVIC would almost certainly be struck down as unconstitutional in the unlikely event it reaches 270 ev's. Good on the governor for putting a stop to this nonsense

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/sisolak-vetoes-bill-that-would-pledge-nevadas-support-to-winner-of-national-popular-vote-reject-electoral-college

Sisolak vetoed the legislation.

Hahaha, excellent. I figured something must be up since it took him a while.

“Once effective, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact could diminish the role of smaller states like Nevada in national electoral contests and force Nevada’s electors to side with whoever wins the nationwide popular vote, rather than the candidate Nevadans choose,” Sisolak said in a statement.

That quote right there nails the argument for the current EC: State's voters vs national voters.  Hopefully most governors will think like Sisolak.

[Joe Republic]

And that’s why I voted for Chris G in the primary, instead of this dipshit.

Oh well, perfect timing for me to GTFO this moronic state next month.

[Beet]

Between this and John Bel Edwards signing Louisianas abortion ban, the Democrats are proving they're still a big tent party. Good for them. (I still support the NPVIC though).

[Yellowhammer]

Between this and John Bel Edwards signing Louisianas abortion ban, the Democrats are proving they're still a big tent party. Good for them. (I still support the NPVIC though).

They aren't a big tent party, but this does show that perhaps they do have a few elected officials who're a little less crazy than the mean democratic primary voter.

[Reaganfan]

What if Trump crossed 270 EV due to Nevada? Sisolak would be the Ralph Nader of 2020.

[Joe Republic]

https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/sisolak-vetoes-bill-that-would-pledge-nevadas-support-to-winner-of-national-popular-vote-reject-electoral-college

Sisolak vetoed the legislation.

Hahaha, excellent.

You seem happy (and smug) for somebody whose vote in Minnesota has never counted for the Republican presidential candidate.  How worthless it must feel!

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Sisolak is cancelled.

If Democrats have balls, they'll primary the son of a bitch.  Nevada isn't a red state and progressives want to scrap the Electoral College.  This is a real cuck move.

[Xing]

Ugh, guess he wants his state to still get attention in presidential elections, even though it's not really much of a swing state anymore. Also, interesting how democracy has come to be seen as extreme leftism.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Also, I would have a lot more respect if the blue avvies in this thread just went full McConnell and said "This system benefits our party, this is why we don't want it abolished."  Because it really just looks like a bunch of retards trying to navigate a corn maze. Pretty embarrassing!

[emailking]

Also, I would have a lot more respect if the blue avvies in this thread just went full McConnell and said "This system benefits our party, this is why we don't want it abolished."  Because it really just looks like a bunch of retards trying to navigate a corn maze. Pretty embarrassing!

The thing is, so far as we know, it has benefitted them by pure chance and rather unlikely chances at that. The 538 model has always shown a bias to the Democrats in the EC.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/sisolak-vetoes-bill-that-would-pledge-nevadas-support-to-winner-of-national-popular-vote-reject-electoral-college

Sisolak vetoed the legislation.

Hahaha, excellent.

You seem happy (and smug) for somebody whose vote in Minnesota has never counted for the Republican presidential candidate.  How worthless it must feel!

Jokes on you, I haven't always lived here. And when we had caucuses that mattered, it was a lot easier to be more effective in getting a good candidate that could compete.

[DrScholl]

It will happen eventually, trust that. Regardless, if Trump loses the popular vote AND the electoral vote under the current system I'm curious to see how Republicans will try and force him back into the White House against public will. With conservatives controlling the Supreme Court I fully expect Republicans to try and have them void the election result based on some obscure interpretation of the constitution. But I don't think even the conservatives on the court are that crazy.