11 year old rape victim forced to carry to term thanks to Ohio law.

[Fuzzy Bear]

This thread is an abortion, and Fuzzy Bear is now administering the procedure.

... The procedure is still ongoing, but FB has now discarded the rusty coat hanger and is reaching for the vacuum cleaner.

Oooh, is this OK, or is this "over the top"?

[OSR stands with Israel]

All this only confrims what I have known all along: The US right loves to call themselves 'pro-life', but they're not. Once you're born, you're on your own. No school lunch, no daycare, no government pre-K, no head start, etc. Sink or swim from the moment you're born.

That's not 'pro-life'. That's pro-birth. Do anything for the unborn, but when they're born, they can't be bothered providing the infant with anything to succeed in life.

Forcing an 11 year old girl to carry her rapist's baby to term is only moral for someone who has an extremely warped sense of morality or none at all. Knowing this girl may die and forcing her to carry to term anyway is not 'pro-life'.

The highlighted talking point is really not related to the abortion issue.  It's a separate conversation. 

It only confirms that you're just pro-birth. You're not 'pro-life'. If you were, you wouldn't be forcing an 11 year old girl to give birth to her rapist's baby.

Fuzzy is pretty liberal on economic issues and even supports single payer

[Santander]

All this only confrims what I have known all along: The US right loves to call themselves 'pro-life', but they're not. Once you're born, you're on your own. No school lunch, no daycare, no government pre-K, no head start, etc. Sink or swim from the moment you're born.

That's not 'pro-life'. That's pro-birth. Do anything for the unborn, but when they're born, they can't be bothered providing the infant with anything to succeed in life.

Forcing an 11 year old girl to carry her rapist's baby to term is only moral for someone who has an extremely warped sense of morality or none at all. Knowing this girl may die and forcing her to carry to term anyway is not 'pro-life'.

The highlighted talking point is really not related to the abortion issue.  It's a separate conversation. 

It only confirms that you're just pro-birth. You're not 'pro-life'. If you were, you wouldn't be forcing an 11 year old girl to give birth to her rapist's baby.

Fuzzy is pretty liberal on economic issues and even supports single payer

Give us this day our daily non sequitur.

[OSR stands with Israel]

All this only confrims what I have known all along: The US right loves to call themselves 'pro-life', but they're not. Once you're born, you're on your own. No school lunch, no daycare, no government pre-K, no head start, etc. Sink or swim from the moment you're born.

That's not 'pro-life'. That's pro-birth. Do anything for the unborn, but when they're born, they can't be bothered providing the infant with anything to succeed in life.

Forcing an 11 year old girl to carry her rapist's baby to term is only moral for someone who has an extremely warped sense of morality or none at all. Knowing this girl may die and forcing her to carry to term anyway is not 'pro-life'.

The highlighted talking point is really not related to the abortion issue.  It's a separate conversation.  

It only confirms that you're just pro-birth. You're not 'pro-life'. If you were, you wouldn't be forcing an 11 year old girl to give birth to her rapist's baby.

Fuzzy is pretty liberal on economic issues and even supports single payer

Give us this day our daily non sequitur.

Well the poster said pro lifers like Fuzzy are hypocrites because they aren’t in support of increase funding for healthcare and social services, well Fuzzy does .


Fuzzy is a good poster , he just has a different view on this issue and isn’t hypocritical at all .  My belief is there should be an exception for rape and incest but he doesn’t,  and even though he disagrees with that position it doesn’t mean he should be demonized for it

[7,052,770]

This thread is an abortion, and Fuzzy Bear is now administering the procedure.

... The procedure is still ongoing, but FB has now discarded the rusty coat hanger and is reaching for the vacuum cleaner.

Oooh, is this OK, or is this "over the top"?

"Over the top" is not always bad, and being particularly funny or clever makes it good.

[Fuzzy Bear]

This thread is an abortion, and Fuzzy Bear is now administering the procedure.

... The procedure is still ongoing, but FB has now discarded the rusty coat hanger and is reaching for the vacuum cleaner.

Oooh, is this OK, or is this "over the top"?

"Over the top" is not always bad, and being particularly funny or clever makes it good.

I'm pretty funny and clever, but that doesn't seem to be working for me.  And Joe Republic has attached my character more than once and get a free pass.

What's the standard here?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

This thread is an abortion, and Fuzzy Bear is now administering the procedure.

... The procedure is still ongoing, but FB has now discarded the rusty coat hanger and is reaching for the vacuum cleaner.

Oooh, is this OK, or is this "over the top"?

"Over the top" is not always bad, and being particularly funny or clever makes it good.

I really like watching Fuzzy's hypocrisy unfolding. First he's making numerous "over the top" comparisons himself by bringing up the slavery, then complains about the people saying "over the top" things. Also, when called out for denying objective medical facts in the girl's case, he's ignoring it and attempts to redirect the conversation, just to accuse others of doing just that later on.

[Joe Republic]

I'm pretty funny and clever

[Stockdale for Veep]

Jesus actually loved abortions. He was misrepresented in the bible due to human error by the authors.

[Continential]

This is very toxic like I expected.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

This thread is an abortion, and Fuzzy Bear is now administering the procedure.

... The procedure is still ongoing, but FB has now discarded the rusty coat hanger and is reaching for the vacuum cleaner.

Given this thread already has 10 pages, I hereby accuse Fuzzy of performing a partial-birth abortion.

[Fuzzy Bear]

This thread is an abortion, and Fuzzy Bear is now administering the procedure.

... The procedure is still ongoing, but FB has now discarded the rusty coat hanger and is reaching for the vacuum cleaner.

Oooh, is this OK, or is this "over the top"?

"Over the top" is not always bad, and being particularly funny or clever makes it good.

I really like watching Fuzzy's hypocrisy unfolding. First he's making numerous "over the top" comparisons himself by bringing up the slavery, then complains about the people saying "over the top" things. Also, when called out for denying objective medical facts in the girl's case, he's ignoring it and attempts to redirect the conversation, just to accuse others of doing just that later on.

I'm not complaining.  I just want the standards to be the same for everyone.  You're a mod, you ought to understand that.

There's already one Gustaf in this forum.  I hope you aren't going to be Gustaf Lite.

[DrScholl]

Fuzzy Bear accuses others of being over the top, but he's put his personal family business on this forum to argue over politics and that is the definition of over the top.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

For an old man, I thought you would know about all this first-hand.    

Don't be surprised. Older members of the Religious Right have no choice to but to delete all memories about abortion from before the 1980s, lest they remember that their denominations explicitly supported Roe v. Wade when it came out, that Ronald Reagan is responsible for elective abortion being legalized in California (and remember, it was illegal because it wasn't considered safe, not because "life begins at fertilization), or that the biggest proponent of abortion rights in Congress back then was a Catholic priest.

Apparently the Religious Right invented time travel, because they somehow convinced Christians in the Roman Empire to oppose abortion.  And many Christians had to go against their culture on this.

Plenty of Evangelicals and fundamentalists opposed abortion.  As a Baptist without any particular modifiers who goes to a church that didn't exist in 1973 and has a pastor who was almost certainly born after, that doesn't really apply to me.

I find it interesting that denominations believe the Bible is 100% inerrant oppose abortion.  Isn't it also interesting that support for abortion seems to correlate with the decline of Christianity in a country?

[Fuzzy Bear]

For an old man, I thought you would know about all this first-hand.    

Don't be surprised. Older members of the Religious Right have no choice to but to delete all memories about abortion from before the 1980s, lest they remember that their denominations explicitly supported Roe v. Wade when it came out, that Ronald Reagan is responsible for elective abortion being legalized in California (and remember, it was illegal because it wasn't considered safe, not because "life begins at fertilization), or that the biggest proponent of abortion rights in Congress back then was a Catholic priest.

Apparently the Religious Right invented time travel, because they somehow convinced Christians in the Roman Empire to oppose abortion.  And many Christians had to go against their culture on this.

Plenty of Evangelicals and fundamentalists opposed abortion.  As a Baptist without any particular modifiers who goes to a church that didn't exist in 1973 and has a pastor who was almost certainly born after, that doesn't really apply to me.

I find it interesting that denominations believe the Bible is 100% inerrant oppose abortion.  Isn't it also interesting that support for abortion seems to correlate with the decline of Christianity in a country?

Your last sentence is a desired outcome in the eyes of many here.

[GoTfan]

For an old man, I thought you would know about all this first-hand.    

Don't be surprised. Older members of the Religious Right have no choice to but to delete all memories about abortion from before the 1980s, lest they remember that their denominations explicitly supported Roe v. Wade when it came out, that Ronald Reagan is responsible for elective abortion being legalized in California (and remember, it was illegal because it wasn't considered safe, not because "life begins at fertilization), or that the biggest proponent of abortion rights in Congress back then was a Catholic priest.

Apparently the Religious Right invented time travel, because they somehow convinced Christians in the Roman Empire to oppose abortion.  And many Christians had to go against their culture on this.

Plenty of Evangelicals and fundamentalists opposed abortion.  As a Baptist without any particular modifiers who goes to a church that didn't exist in 1973 and has a pastor who was almost certainly born after, that doesn't really apply to me.

I find it interesting that denominations believe the Bible is 100% inerrant oppose abortion.  Isn't it also interesting that support for abortion seems to correlate with the decline of Christianity in a country?

Your last sentence is a desired outcome in the eyes of many here.

Well considering that a lot of millenials want nothing to do with religion, I'd say we're finally entering into a world where religion is not automatically a justification for genocides.

[Fuzzy Bear]

For an old man, I thought you would know about all this first-hand.    

Don't be surprised. Older members of the Religious Right have no choice to but to delete all memories about abortion from before the 1980s, lest they remember that their denominations explicitly supported Roe v. Wade when it came out, that Ronald Reagan is responsible for elective abortion being legalized in California (and remember, it was illegal because it wasn't considered safe, not because "life begins at fertilization), or that the biggest proponent of abortion rights in Congress back then was a Catholic priest.

Apparently the Religious Right invented time travel, because they somehow convinced Christians in the Roman Empire to oppose abortion.  And many Christians had to go against their culture on this.

Plenty of Evangelicals and fundamentalists opposed abortion.  As a Baptist without any particular modifiers who goes to a church that didn't exist in 1973 and has a pastor who was almost certainly born after, that doesn't really apply to me.

I find it interesting that denominations believe the Bible is 100% inerrant oppose abortion.  Isn't it also interesting that support for abortion seems to correlate with the decline of Christianity in a country?

Your last sentence is a desired outcome in the eyes of many here.

Well considering that a lot of millenials want nothing to do with religion, I'd say we're finally entering into a world where religion is not automatically a justification for genocides.

At least I know where you stand.  If you're anti-Christian, at least you're out front about it.  I have more respect for that than for people who insist that Scripture says things it clearly doesn't.

[Beet]

For an old man, I thought you would know about all this first-hand.    

Don't be surprised. Older members of the Religious Right have no choice to but to delete all memories about abortion from before the 1980s, lest they remember that their denominations explicitly supported Roe v. Wade when it came out, that Ronald Reagan is responsible for elective abortion being legalized in California (and remember, it was illegal because it wasn't considered safe, not because "life begins at fertilization), or that the biggest proponent of abortion rights in Congress back then was a Catholic priest.

Apparently the Religious Right invented time travel, because they somehow convinced Christians in the Roman Empire to oppose abortion.  And many Christians had to go against their culture on this.

Plenty of Evangelicals and fundamentalists opposed abortion.  As a Baptist without any particular modifiers who goes to a church that didn't exist in 1973 and has a pastor who was almost certainly born after, that doesn't really apply to me.

I find it interesting that denominations believe the Bible is 100% inerrant oppose abortion.  Isn't it also interesting that support for abortion seems to correlate with the decline of Christianity in a country?

Your last sentence is a desired outcome in the eyes of many here.

Well considering that a lot of millenials want nothing to do with religion, I'd say we're finally entering into a world where religion is not automatically a justification for genocides.

At least I know where you stand.  If you're anti-Christian, at least you're out front about it.  I have more respect for that than for people who insist that Scripture says things it clearly doesn't.

No, you fear that less than you do Christians who point out that the Bible does not prohibit abortion, and in fact explicitly assigns the fetus a lesser status than an actual human life.

"...the law does not provide that the act (abortion) pertains to homicide, for there cannot yet be said to be a live soul in a body that lacks sensation.’" -- St. Augustine

Yes, St. Augustine did oppose abortion, but not because he thought the fetus is a human life, it's because he believed that marriage and sex were for procreation, and women did not have the right to control their own bodies, so he denounced abortion as well as birth control. In other words, the same motivations I have been saying present day pro-lifers have.

[Badger]

All due respect, but you might wanna reread the Ten Commandments.  I'm pretty sure there's something in them about not bearing false witness against your neighbor.  I know how passionately you feel about this, but the quoted post is completely over the top and I'm pretty sure you know better than to accuse folks you disagree with of wanting to murder a bunch of babies to impress an internet clique.  I mean, seriously, what even is that?

I have changed "pro-infanticide" to pro-abortion in previous threads.  I certainly believe abortion to be infanticide, but I do understand that some people, however incomprehensible to me that may be, do not.  

As to over the top, how over the top was this:

It just dawned on me. Fuzzy, you were saying you are happily ready and willing for your daughter to do prison time for having an abortion? Because let's remember dear little Defenders of human life, but that is exactly what these laws entail.

Or this; was this over the top?

For an old man, I thought you would know about all this first-hand.    

Don't be surprised. Older members of the Religious Right have no choice to but to delete all memories about abortion from before the 1980s, lest they remember that their denominations explicitly supported Roe v. Wade when it came out, that Ronald Reagan is responsible for elective abortion being legalized in California (and remember, it was illegal because it wasn't considered safe, not because "life begins at fertilization), or that the biggest proponent of abortion rights in Congress back then was a Catholic priest.

Or this one; was this over the top?

Thank you for bravely fighting for an 11-year-old girl's right to die on a hospital bed. You are a modern Lincoln, with the eloquence to boot.

Here's some love and kindness from Frodo; was this over the top?

Is that what you would tell the grieving mother of this girl if (and when) she dies in childbirth, along with her unborn child?  And all because nut cases like you refuse to include an exception for rape and incest?  

That's cold comfort, indeed.  

Where's their rebuke?  Where's their suggestion that their responses to me just might be "over the top" and ad hominem attacks on my character.  Where's the suggestion that Badger tried to do me like the 1988 GOP did Michael Dukakis?

Frodo and Harry have no valid complaint with me.  They have been trashing me forever.  Harry's a bit more subtle, but Frodo's flat out over the top and ad hominem attack-fueled.  Or have all their attacks on me, in this thread and others, been fine and in bounds?  Badger is Badger, but he's a veritable Lee Atwater on this thread, is he not?  Because he's sure doing me like Dukakis.

Just don't call me for holding or illegal use of hands when five others from the opposite team can initiate helmet-to-helmet contact and chop blocks designed to cripple knees.  If people want to referee, that's fine as well, but let's call out the players on the other team when it's warranted.

1. Quit whining

2. You never even attempted answering the question about whether youd prefer the law prosecute your sons girlfriend with an offense liky carrying prison time. Care to now? Or just craven out again?

[GoTfan]

For an old man, I thought you would know about all this first-hand.    

Don't be surprised. Older members of the Religious Right have no choice to but to delete all memories about abortion from before the 1980s, lest they remember that their denominations explicitly supported Roe v. Wade when it came out, that Ronald Reagan is responsible for elective abortion being legalized in California (and remember, it was illegal because it wasn't considered safe, not because "life begins at fertilization), or that the biggest proponent of abortion rights in Congress back then was a Catholic priest.

Apparently the Religious Right invented time travel, because they somehow convinced Christians in the Roman Empire to oppose abortion.  And many Christians had to go against their culture on this.

Plenty of Evangelicals and fundamentalists opposed abortion.  As a Baptist without any particular modifiers who goes to a church that didn't exist in 1973 and has a pastor who was almost certainly born after, that doesn't really apply to me.

I find it interesting that denominations believe the Bible is 100% inerrant oppose abortion.  Isn't it also interesting that support for abortion seems to correlate with the decline of Christianity in a country?

Your last sentence is a desired outcome in the eyes of many here.

Well considering that a lot of millenials want nothing to do with religion, I'd say we're finally entering into a world where religion is not automatically a justification for genocides.

At least I know where you stand.  If you're anti-Christian, at least you're out front about it.  I have more respect for that than for people who insist that Scripture says things it clearly doesn't.

I don't care what the f**k people believe. I couldn't care less. But when you're forcing an 11 year old girl to carry to term when she may not survive the birth, at least have the decency not to label yourself pro-life.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Great moderation job. My authentic posts with multiple recommends defending the right to life are deleted. What a disgrace this has become when you can't even stand up for the objectively right position. You can't silence me when I'm back in the streets with all the other champions of life.

[T'Chenka]

You can't silence me when I'm back in the streets with all the other champions of life.

Are you guys gonna be handing out free coat hangars and boot straps?

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

You can't silence me when I'm back in the streets with all the other champions of life.

Are you guys gonna be handing out free coat hangars and boot straps?

I'll let the murderers choose their own weapons - maybe Clue should add that one - as I continue to advocate and vote for a much grander welfare state.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that an 11-year-old rape victim should not have the unquestioned right to an abortion either gets off on cruelty or has a completely misguided sense of morality. In other words, you are a bad person. Reflect on yourself, and what morality even means. Morals aren't rules or laws - if only they were so simple.

And what if the unborn child actually IS a human being?

Morals aren't rules or laws; this is true.  But innocent human life ought to be inviolate.

Wow ok, Fuzzy, court expectations for you were low (They've always been) but damn...

This is an 11 year old girl.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

For an old man, I thought you would know about all this first-hand.    

Don't be surprised. Older members of the Religious Right have no choice to but to delete all memories about abortion from before the 1980s, lest they remember that their denominations explicitly supported Roe v. Wade when it came out, that Ronald Reagan is responsible for elective abortion being legalized in California (and remember, it was illegal because it wasn't considered safe, not because "life begins at fertilization), or that the biggest proponent of abortion rights in Congress back then was a Catholic priest.

Apparently the Religious Right invented time travel, because they somehow convinced Christians in the Roman Empire to oppose abortion.  And many Christians had to go against their culture on this.

Plenty of Evangelicals and fundamentalists opposed abortion.  As a Baptist without any particular modifiers who goes to a church that didn't exist in 1973 and has a pastor who was almost certainly born after, that doesn't really apply to me.

I find it interesting that denominations believe the Bible is 100% inerrant oppose abortion.  Isn't it also interesting that support for abortion seems to correlate with the decline of Christianity in a country?

Your last sentence is a desired outcome in the eyes of many here.

Well considering that a lot of millenials want nothing to do with religion, I'd say we're finally entering into a world where religion is not automatically a justification for genocides.

At least I know where you stand.  If you're anti-Christian, at least you're out front about it.  I have more respect for that than for people who insist that Scripture says things it clearly doesn't.

No, you fear that less than you do Christians who point out that the Bible does not prohibit abortion, and in fact explicitly assigns the fetus a lesser status than an actual human life.

"...the law does not provide that the act (abortion) pertains to homicide, for there cannot yet be said to be a live soul in a body that lacks sensation.’" -- St. Augustine

Yes, St. Augustine did oppose abortion, but not because he thought the fetus is a human life, it's because he believed that marriage and sex were for procreation, and women did not have the right to control their own bodies, so he denounced abortion as well as birth control. In other words, the same motivations I have been saying present day pro-lifers have.

Augustine's views were influenced by Greco-Roman thought.  Science has advanced since then.

Here's something more recent, Britain's ban on abortion that was repealed in 1967 was called the Infant Life Preservation Act.  Obviously, opposition to abortion was grounded in the  idea that it was murder.