Hotter, Badder, and Unpopularer Takes

[RC (a la Frémont)]

Peanut Butter M&Ms > Reese's Pieces.

Is this really a hot, bad, &/or unpopular take?

I've had my fair share of criticism on it
https://twitter.com/keirjwilson/status/1373520137417072640?s=21

[KaiserDave]

The US provoked Japan into attacking by embargoing a country that had done nothing to us. Before you get upset and start screaming that I'm a fascist, stop and think about one thing. How would the US respond if someone tried to cut off our oil supply? If you said anything different than "bomb them into dirt" I suggest you visit a proctologist because you seem to have your head stuck up your rectum.

This is a highly deranged and sociopathic take that shows moral failure and historical illiteracy

[brucejoel99]

Peanut Butter M&Ms > Reese's Pieces.

Is this really a hot, bad, &/or unpopular take?

I've had my fair share of criticism on it
https://twitter.com/keirjwilson/status/1373520137417072640?s=21

In fairness, their tweet's also got 0 likes, so you could always justify it as them having the hot take

[TheReckoning]

Calling for the death penalty to be used for any crimes less bad than murder should not be classified as political speech, but as hate speech, and should be punished as such wherever hate speech is punished.

So in other words, not punished at all?

[RINO Tom]

I can't take total credit for this, as I got inspiration elsewhere, but...

... the War in Iraq would have been 100% justified if we had instituted a less "idealistic" form of government that had a chance of working, like a constitutional monarchy with Islam as its official religion.  History shows that pacifism does not work, and history also shows that people who think we are "post-historical" in any way always end up with egg on their faces.  Hussein was a bad actor, and it was justified to act first against him ... I am developing little tolerance for the liberal/libertarian/whatever idea that the United States of all places can be an idle passenger to world events and come out better off for it.

The major error was being ignorant enough to think that this region would thrive under some Western ideal of ~democracy~, rather than something that had a chance of making the country more functional and stable, possibly serving as a positive domino effect for other places in the region.

[VAR]

I refuse to care about ‘political correctness’/‘cancel culture’ until people stop using them as an effort to distract from real issues.

[OSR stands with Israel]

The US provoked Japan into attacking by embargoing a country that had done nothing to us. Before you get upset and start screaming that I'm a fascist, stop and think about one thing. How would the US respond if someone tried to cut off our oil supply? If you said anything different than "bomb them into dirt" I suggest you visit a proctologist because you seem to have your head stuck up your rectum.

The scenario you’re talking about literally happened in 1973/4. The United States did not bomb Algeria, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Kuwait, Libya, or Saudi Arabia into the dirt as a result.

Imperial Japan had no right to America’s oil; saying we “provoked” their attack by denying them it is absurd. This take is definitely in the correct thread.

Trying to destroy someone’s economy when they haven’t done anything to you literally is provoking them. America has no right to stick its nose in other nations business. Who died and made us the protectors of east Asia? Also there was a reason the oil embargo happened, we were funding their enemy. Ask Iraq what the US will do to secure oil supplies.

Our own oil supply is literally our business and other nations arent entitled to receiving it

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

The need for massive infrastructure week is overstated. Don't get me wrong, the need is large alright, but it is still overstated. America is facing more pressing issues than that.

[Hammy]

The US provoked Japan into attacking by embargoing a country that had done nothing to us. Before you get upset and start screaming that I'm a fascist, stop and think about one thing. How would the US respond if someone tried to cut off our oil supply? If you said anything different than "bomb them into dirt" I suggest you visit a proctologist because you seem to have your head stuck up your rectum.

This is a highly deranged and sociopathic take that shows moral failure and historical illiteracy

That Pearl Harbor was in part a retaliation for the embargo--seen as an act of war in a war which we were officially neutral--is an objective fact regardless of what morals you want to apply and how just the embargo was or wasn't.

[sting in the rafters]

-"The Senate and Electoral College unfairly favor Rs" argument is somewhat fallacious because if we had proportional representation in the upper house of our legislature they would simply hand out free ammo and fireworks up and down the Mississippi to everyone who could read a ballot
-If you get busted for weed it's your fault 90% of the time. You have to be an idiot to get caught in this day and age. I say that as someone who crushes a q in two weeks flat.
-If I owned a business I'd drug-test everyone pre-employment who doesn't have a med card exemption. Not for insurance reasons or any moral opposition to drug use but rather because I want employees who have the self-discipline to stop. Of course this would be an ideal world where the barrier to getting a med card of having to be rich and knowing a friendly doctor does not exist.
-There's no reason not to support voter ID laws if we lived in an ideal world where everyone had fair and equal access to a government-issued ID. Obviously that is not the case in the US.

[Хahar 🤔]

... the War in Iraq would have been 100% justified if we had instituted a less "idealistic" form of government that had a chance of working, like a constitutional monarchy with Islam as its official religion.

If it helps at all, I can assure you that this wouldn't make any sense and would not in any way be better than the actually existing situation.

[Xing]

Trump's presidency was actually great for Republicans, since he lowered the bar so much that any Republican with a modicum of sanity is now considered "reasonable" and given a pass for many things that Democrats would be tarred and feathered for, since the standards for the Republican Party have gotten insanely low. That's why Republicans were able to overperform Trump downballot, despite being galaxies away from being "moderate"; being "better" than Trump is an extremely easy bar for even the most extreme partisan hacks to jump over. I can almost guarantee that the next Republican nominee (assuming it's not Trump again) is going to get very positive coverage for simply appearing relatively rational compared to Trump.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

The relationship of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent (particularly Punjab my turf) to arabs should really be more compared to that of Spaniard conquerors and native american tribes. Almost alien languages, ethnicities, cultures, etc. Conflating the two would be like calling Deb Haaland’s laguna pueblo tribe akin to Spaniards because she is catholic. The similarities largely stop after religion (even then there are substantial factional differences in religion too). The biggest difference in this comparison is unfortunately that Muslims in the Indian subcontinent are much more predisposed to being adorers of a hostile foreign invader (and I’d so get killed for saying this in parts of Pakistan lol). You don’t have to scratch very far to find the remnants of a pre Islamic civilization in Pakistan, Lahore is literally named after a hindu god, and sargodha which is one of the biggest military centers is named after a hindu ascetic/yogi pond, etc. The biggest problem this manifests itself for my life is rednecks here conflating Pakistanis with the Islamic terror attacks that have happened in America over the past couple of decades. Like almost every single one of them is an arab, not us. Pick on them, not us.

[KaiserDave]

The US provoked Japan into attacking by embargoing a country that had done nothing to us. Before you get upset and start screaming that I'm a fascist, stop and think about one thing. How would the US respond if someone tried to cut off our oil supply? If you said anything different than "bomb them into dirt" I suggest you visit a proctologist because you seem to have your head stuck up your rectum.

This is a highly deranged and sociopathic take that shows moral failure and historical illiteracy

That Pearl Harbor was in part a retaliation for the embargo--seen as an act of war in a war which we were officially neutral--is an objective fact regardless of what morals you want to apply and how just the embargo was or wasn't.

I don't dispute that. But the take that we should "bomb into dirt" any country that embargoed us on oil today is heavily deranged. As well as the idea that Japan was somehow the victim in 1941.

[_.]

The relationship of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent (particularly Punjab my turf) to arabs should really be more compared to that of Spaniard conquerors and native american tribes. Almost alien languages, ethnicities, cultures, etc. Conflating the two would be like calling Deb Haaland’s laguna pueblo tribe akin to Spaniards because she is catholic. The similarities largely stop after religion (even then there are substantial factional differences in religion too). The biggest difference in this comparison is unfortunately that Muslims in the Indian subcontinent are much more predisposed to being adorers of a hostile foreign invader (and I’d so get killed for saying this in parts of Pakistan lol). You don’t have to scratch very far to find the remnants of a pre Islamic civilization in Pakistan, Lahore is literally named after a hindu god, and sargodha which is one of the biggest military centers is named after a hindu ascetic/yogi pond, etc. The biggest problem this manifests itself for my life is rednecks here conflating Pakistanis with the Islamic terror attacks that have happened in America over the past couple of decades. Like almost every single one of them is an arab, not us. Pick on them, not us.

😭😭😭 Please white man respect me, I'm not like those filthy Arabs! It makes me so angry when you confuse us! 😠😠😠

FTFY


As a Pakistani, throwing a 300-million-person ethnic group under the bus is never cool. What you're doing sets a very bad example of our people in the U.S. and beyond.

I also find it ironic that for all this talk about Desi Muslims being predisposed to servitude, you yourself seem particularly eager to lick the boots of certain racist rednecks. They don't care that you're not an Arab, they'll never care, deal with it and stop trying to win their approval.

[ملكة كرينجيتوك]

The relationship of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent (particularly Punjab my turf) to arabs should really be more compared to that of Spaniard conquerors and native american tribes. Almost alien languages, ethnicities, cultures, etc. Conflating the two would be like calling Deb Haaland’s laguna pueblo tribe akin to Spaniards because she is catholic. The similarities largely stop after religion (even then there are substantial factional differences in religion too). The biggest difference in this comparison is unfortunately that Muslims in the Indian subcontinent are much more predisposed to being adorers of a hostile foreign invader (and I’d so get killed for saying this in parts of Pakistan lol). You don’t have to scratch very far to find the remnants of a pre Islamic civilization in Pakistan, Lahore is literally named after a hindu god, and sargodha which is one of the biggest military centers is named after a hindu ascetic/yogi pond, etc. The biggest problem this manifests itself for my life is rednecks here conflating Pakistanis with the Islamic terror attacks that have happened in America over the past couple of decades. Like almost every single one of them is an arab, not us. Pick on them, not us.

😭😭😭 Please white man respect me, I'm not like those filthy Arabs! It makes me so angry when you confuse us! 😠😠😠

FTFY


As a Pakistani, throwing a 300-million-person ethnic group under the bus is never cool. What you're doing sets a very bad example of our people in the U.S. and beyond.

I also find it ironic that for all this talk about Desi Muslims being predisposed to servitude, you yourself seem particularly eager to lick the boots of certain racist rednecks. They don't care that you're not an Arab, they'll never care, deal with it and stop trying to win their approval.

我猜你有可能是海外的巴基斯坦人。大部分的我IRL認識的美國穆斯林人是desi或者是黑人。

(Posting in Traditional Chinese to be consistent with my avatar and sig. Happy April 1st fam)

[_.]

我猜你有可能是海外的巴基斯坦人。

That'd be imprecise, I was born in the United States to immigrant parents, but I've spent a significant portion of my life in Pakistan and the first school I ever went to was in that country. I suppose my wording was a little inaccurate, maybe "person of Pakistani origin" would be better.

大部分的我IRL認識的美國穆斯林人是desi或者是黑人。

Same

(Posting in Traditional Chinese to be consistent with my avatar and sig. Happy April 1st fam)

Back to you as well.

Do you speak Chinese and did you write that yourself, or did you use Google Translate?

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

The relationship of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent (particularly Punjab my turf) to arabs should really be more compared to that of Spaniard conquerors and native american tribes. Almost alien languages, ethnicities, cultures, etc. Conflating the two would be like calling Deb Haaland’s laguna pueblo tribe akin to Spaniards because she is catholic. The similarities largely stop after religion (even then there are substantial factional differences in religion too). The biggest difference in this comparison is unfortunately that Muslims in the Indian subcontinent are much more predisposed to being adorers of a hostile foreign invader (and I’d so get killed for saying this in parts of Pakistan lol). You don’t have to scratch very far to find the remnants of a pre Islamic civilization in Pakistan, Lahore is literally named after a hindu god, and sargodha which is one of the biggest military centers is named after a hindu ascetic/yogi pond, etc. The biggest problem this manifests itself for my life is rednecks here conflating Pakistanis with the Islamic terror attacks that have happened in America over the past couple of decades. Like almost every single one of them is an arab, not us. Pick on them, not us.

😭😭😭 Please white man respect me, I'm not like those filthy Arabs! It makes me so angry when you confuse us! 😠😠😠

FTFY


As a Pakistani, throwing a 300-million-person ethnic group under the bus is never cool. What you're doing sets a very bad example of our people in the U.S. and beyond.

I also find it ironic that for all this talk about Desi Muslims being predisposed to servitude, you yourself seem particularly eager to lick the boots of certain racist rednecks. They don't care that you're not an Arab, they'll never care, deal with it and stop trying to win their approval.

I can see how some of what I said is cancellable, but I highly doubt the entire thing is. There is some truth in there, which yes, we are different.

You are entitled to your opinion, which I recognize is the majority one, hence I posted my opinion in this thread quite fittingly. If you regard my opinion on the matter as lesser than yours since I am only half desi, that's fine too, read it to my dad, he didn't agree with every single line, but he agreed with about 80% of it, and there are full desis (albeit the minority) who share my opinion.

You'll never fully understand it like me a mixed a person, so I don't blame you for your shallow statement there, but that's the thing, I am half desi and half white. They are both a part of me, and I am just being myself whenever I lean into either side.

Your last sentence is also not entirely true, and kind of ignorant. A lot of rednecks are underestimated in terms of their capacities for learning and change. It's why Daryl Davis has gotten hundreds of them to renounce the Klan. You will always have your tfg's (too far gones), but a non 0% substantial amount of them are open minded enough if given the opportunities. I personally myself have educated 4-5 rednecks and got them to renounce their dislike of Pakistanis. I assume it's easier for me, because aside from my full name (even my common name is fairly white), I'm fairly interchangeable with broader American white culture. I use that to put people at more ease at first, and then bring in another friend who is basically fully desi in every sense of the word, and they then see that the sky does not fall down, and the earth does not end. The problem is we are called minorities for a reason, there are not a lot of us, and even less of us willing to be ambassadors, and that's why you don't see a lot of broader societal change fast.

[_.]

I can see how some of what I said is cancellable, but I highly doubt the entire thing is. There is some truth in there, which yes, we are different.

I was mainly taking issue with last two sentences ("Like almost every single one of them [terrorists] is an arab, not us. Pick on them, not us."), where you wanted us to throw our Arab brothers and sisters under the bus in order to gain approval (the way I understood your statement). I understand your frustration at being mixed up with Mexicans, Arabs, North Africans etc., but this is not the proper way to be an ambassador as a minority (as you call yourself).

As for the rest of your take, while I disagree with it wholeheartedly, it wasn't outright horrid, it just was a different opinion.

If you regard my opinion on the matter as lesser than yours since I am only half desi, that's fine too

I do not, I apologize if I gave off that vibe.

You'll never fully understand it like me a mixed a person, so I don't blame you for your shallow statement there, but that's the thing, I am half desi and half white. They are both a part of me, and I am just being myself whenever I lean into either side.

I suppose so.

Your last sentence is also not entirely true, and kind of ignorant. A lot of rednecks are underestimated in terms of their capacities for learning and change. It's why Daryl Davis has gotten hundreds of them to renounce the Klan. You will always have your tfg's (too far gones), but a non 0% substantial amount of them are open minded enough if given the opportunities. I personally myself have educated 4-5 rednecks and got them to renounce their dislike of Pakistanis. I assume it's easier for me, because aside from my full name (even my common name is fairly white), I'm fairly interchangeable with broader American white culture. I use that to put people at more ease at first, and then bring in another friend who is basically fully desi in every sense of the word, and they then see that the sky does not fall down, and the earth does not end. The problem is we are called minorities for a reason, there are not a lot of us, and even less of us willing to be ambassadors, and that's why you don't see a lot of broader societal change fast.

You're correct, my final sentence was rather ignorant, prejudiced, and presumptuous. I'll be removing that and apologize to any rural people who it may have offended. I also commend you on your effort to educate the broader American public that we aren't spawns of Satan 👍 (assuming you don't go, "Well, it's not like we're Arabs lol, those are the guys who cause explosions" after meeting them)

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

I can see how some of what I said is cancellable, but I highly doubt the entire thing is. There is some truth in there, which yes, we are different.

I was mainly taking issue with last two sentences ("Like almost every single one of them [terrorists] is an arab, not us. Pick on them, not us."), where you wanted us to throw our Arab brothers and sisters under the bus in order to gain approval (the way I understood your statement). I understand your frustration at being mixed up with Mexicans, Arabs, North Africans etc., but this is not the proper way to be an ambassador as a minority (as you call yourself).

As for the rest of your take, while I disagree with it wholeheartedly, it wasn't outright horrid, it just was a different opinion.

If you regard my opinion on the matter as lesser than yours since I am only half desi, that's fine too

I do not, I apologize if I gave off that vibe.

You'll never fully understand it like me a mixed a person, so I don't blame you for your shallow statement there, but that's the thing, I am half desi and half white. They are both a part of me, and I am just being myself whenever I lean into either side.

I suppose so.

Your last sentence is also not entirely true, and kind of ignorant. A lot of rednecks are underestimated in terms of their capacities for learning and change. It's why Daryl Davis has gotten hundreds of them to renounce the Klan. You will always have your tfg's (too far gones), but a non 0% substantial amount of them are open minded enough if given the opportunities. I personally myself have educated 4-5 rednecks and got them to renounce their dislike of Pakistanis. I assume it's easier for me, because aside from my full name (even my common name is fairly white), I'm fairly interchangeable with broader American white culture. I use that to put people at more ease at first, and then bring in another friend who is basically fully desi in every sense of the word, and they then see that the sky does not fall down, and the earth does not end. The problem is we are called minorities for a reason, there are not a lot of us, and even less of us willing to be ambassadors, and that's why you don't see a lot of broader societal change fast.

You're correct, my final sentence was rather ignorant, prejudiced, and presumptuous. I'll be removing that and apologize to any rural people who it may have offended. I also commend you on your effort to educate the broader American public that we aren't spawns of Satan 👍 (assuming you don't go, "Well, it's not like we're Arabs lol, those are the guys who cause explosions" after meeting them)

I don't say they are all terrorists, but I do make clear that out of the few radical Islamic terror attacks in America in the past couple of decades, even fewer of them were done by Pakistanis. I'm just tired of the superiority complex on us though. Tired of being relegated to being second class. They are "brothers and sisters" in faith in the same way spanish conquistadors are to native americans that were converted by them. They are richer and more powerful than us, and can fend for themselves without needing me to stick up for them.

[Agonized-Statism]

Godzilla vs. King Kong isn't even a debate, like why are we even entertaining the notion that a monkey would last a second against a nuclear fire-breathing dinosaur

It's kinda like Superman vs. Batman, one is so obviously outclassed but also has a fanbase of whiney shills

[Donerail]

man i just wanna see big monkey punch big lizard. don't make me think any more than that

[_.]

I don't say they are all terrorists, but I do make clear that out of the few radical Islamic terror attacks in America in the past couple of decades, even fewer of them were done by Pakistanis.

Both true and fair (In the last two decades, out of 34 Islamists who committed terrorist attacks in the U.S., 3 were Pakistani).

Unrelated to the conversation but I find it quite interesting how many of the terrorists are of Palestinian and Saudi descent specifically (I went through all the articles).

I'm just tired of the superiority complex on us though. Tired of being relegated to being second class.

I fully understand this. The Arabian governments in the Gulf generally suck, the citizens in many of these countries are commonly racist to non-Arabs and the countries there have numerous horrid human rights abuses against migrant workers who literally built up their [UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia] nations with their own hands. Generally, the governments of the Gulf Arabs are sellouts who do not care for their Muslim brethren in East Turkestan, having praised the People's Republic even as genocide continues there. This is highly deplorable.

This isn't a mainly ethnic thing, though, this is mainly in pursuit of power and influence (still inexcusable). These same countries accepted zero refugees from Syria (another Arab nation) even as Turkey, Jordan, and Lebanon were swarmed. The countries in the Gulf also are currently in the process of recognizing the state of Israel even as Palestinians (who are also Arab) continue to be persecuted, all for better ties with the United States. The oil wealth they have received has made them supercilious and disdainful.

Even then, though, none of this is a good excuse to go tell other Americans to pick on Arabs in general (Quote "Pick on them, not us"). That only further intensifies the cycle of distrust between Arab Muslims and non-Arab Muslims. Be better than them.

Not to mention that there are plenty of Arab nations where discrimination and superiority complexes like this aren't widespread, such as Egypt (which has a population larger than all of the Gulf nations combined), the Levantine states, and countries in the Maghreb (most Arabs in the United States are from the Levant and Egypt as well).

They are "brothers and sisters" in faith in the same way spanish conquistadors are to native americans that were converted by them.

This is an understandable sentiment coming from a secular standpoint.

From an Islamic standpoint, though, Arab Muslims are our brothers and sisters in faith period. Just like French Muslims, Indonesian Muslims, Turkish Muslims etc. There is no difference between any of us except in piety, and Islam is a religion for all of humankind. The attitudes found among some the Arab Gulf Nations are not Islamic, and upon ressurection, those people will be punished for their actions in this world.

I find it quite odd that you (I'm running on the assumption that you are a Muslim based on the statements you've made in previous threads) hold ethnic grudges based on events that happened a thousand years ago, especially if you consider Islam to be the truth. This is even more far-fetched than a Jew picking a bone against the German people today for the Holocaust.

As a Muslim, I myself am thankful that the truth reached me, no matter how it was done. I'd imagine a religiously observant Catholic Native American in Latin America would feel similarly.

They are richer and more powerful than us, and can fend for themselves without needing me to stick up for them.

Fair.

It's kinda like Superman vs. Batman, one is so obviously outclassed but also has a fanbase of whiney shills

Yeah, IKR! Superman is so obviously outclassed by Batman, I don't get how anybody could put them on the same level /s

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

There is nothing immoral with getting sterilized or taking other actions designed to prevent oneself from having children, and then lying about it in a relationship to someone who wants children.

The inverse is of course still immoral though.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Godzilla vs. King Kong isn't even a debate, like why are we even entertaining the notion that a monkey would last a second against a nuclear fire-breathing dinosaur

It's kinda like Superman vs. Batman, one is so obviously outclassed but also has a fanbase of whiney shills

Hot take, a similarly sized mammal will almost always kick a bird's ass.
But nuclear power does muddy things.