Was JFK the only Democrat who could beat Nixon in 1960?
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  Was JFK the only Democrat who could beat Nixon in 1960?
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Author Topic: Was JFK the only Democrat who could beat Nixon in 1960?  (Read 895 times)
President Johnson
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« on: May 04, 2019, 04:54:23 AM »

Was JFK the only Democrat who could beat Nixon in 1960 since the election was so close? I'm not sure LBJ or Hubert Humphrey would have won. But LBJ for his political skills is the only Democrat I'd give a remote chance. The rest of the field (Stevenson, Symington etc.) would have lost for sure.
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connally68
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2019, 09:43:44 AM »

LBJ could have pulled it off. Then Rocky or Nixon could have come back and whooped him in 64. I have no doubt Nixon would have been a much better president in the early sixties than he was later on.
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President Johnson
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2019, 01:41:35 PM »

LBJ could have pulled it off. Then Rocky or Nixon could have come back and whooped him in 64. I have no doubt Nixon would have been a much better president in the early sixties than he was later on.

I agree. At the time without hindsight, I would most likely have voted for Nixon in 1960 over Kennedy.
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johnpressman
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2019, 08:20:47 PM »

To take your question one step further, JFK would have only won the election with LBJ as his Vice Presidential candidate.  There was a serious effort to deprive both candidates from an electoral college victory through slates of "unpledged" electors running in several southern states resulting in 15 electors voting for Sen. Harry F. Byrd.

LBJ was essential in limiting this quasi-Dixiecrat effort to throw the 1960 election into the House Of Representatives.  Without LBJ on the ticket, 1960 would look very different.

As to LBJ as the nominee, Nixon would have crushed him in a televised debate, and that was the whole ball game in 1960.
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Fuzzy Bear
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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2019, 09:20:54 PM »

LBJ and Symington would have won.

One of JFK's leading choices for the VP slot was Sen. George Smathers (D-FL), JFK's friend and girl-chasing buddy.  LBJ wasn't essential to keep the South in line; Smathers' selection would have accomplished that as well.
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johnpressman
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2019, 12:42:00 AM »
« Edited: May 18, 2019, 11:09:04 AM by johnpressman »

I disagree. Sen. Smathers, although JFK's pal, was a signer of the 1956 "Southern Manifesto" making him unacceptable as his running mate in 1960.

LBJ, a moderate who could keep the South from going to Nixon or to the unpledged electors scheme, was the perfect choice for JFK.  Without LBJ, Texas, the Carolinas and W. VA go Republican in 1960.

I don't see JFK's other potential VP candidates such as Symington (who was promised the nomination by Kennedy), Orville Freeman of MN. or Sen. Henry Jackson of WA making much of a difference.

I believe Nixon would have crushed LBJ in 1960, whether the TV debates are held or not.  JFK kept Johnson in the South, knowing his accent  and personality wouldn't play well up North.  LBJ might have won VA, TN, FL and KY from Nixon but would have lost most of the Northeast and Midwest  without the huge Catholic and Black turnout that put JFK over the top in New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Michigan, Rhode Island and Pennsylvania.

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brucejoel99
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2019, 01:24:19 AM »

LBJ could've won too. Humphrey wouldn't have won, though.
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2019, 11:11:59 PM »

As to LBJ as the nominee, Nixon would have crushed him in a televised debate, and that was the whole ball game in 1960.

I've gotta take serious issue with both these assumptions.

What exactly makes you think Nixon, who was himself crushed by JFK, would have crushed LBJ in the debates? He wouldn't have been blown out like he was against JFK, but for my money LBJ was far more charismatic and a far more commanding presence than the introverted, sweaty, cold and dull Nixon. LBJ didn't have the same smooth charm JFK did, no, but he was a fantastic persauder and salesman in everything else he did; no reason to think he couldn't sell himself to the nation on live TV. Nixon may have been able to pitch himself as a policy wonk, but LBJ could have overwhelmed him -- interrupted him, mocked him, knocked him off-script and forced him to improvise -- and I don't see Nixon handling that well at all. LBJ would have come across as the "alpha male." I actually see it potentially going quite similar to the Biden/Ryan 2012 debate, as it would be a similar personality clash.

And I'm also far from sure it's safe to say the debate was "the whole ball game." It may have been a significant factor in the election, but it's unclear to what extent that was the case, let alone if it was decisive. (Possible given how close it was, but not certain.) In this alternate election, likely LBJ more comfortably wins Texas and, ironically, wins Alabama and Mississippi (which JFK lost to Byrd), giving him a greater cushion even if he is seen as having lost the debates. Quite possibly he could win some or all of the other Southern states JFK lost (VA, KY, TN, FL, OK) as well.

Also at least some (admittedly sketchy) polling suggested that the debates were seen as closer than popularly thought even by TV viewers (and Nixon was actually favored among radio listeners), so it's unclear exactly by how much if at all JFK truly "won" the debates, let alone whether they won the whole ball game for him.
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johnpressman
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2019, 02:35:22 AM »
« Edited: May 20, 2019, 02:32:18 AM by johnpressman »

JFK's people feared that Nixon would insist on at least one Vice Presidential debate.  LBJ's southern accent and coarse manner was anathema to the general electorate in 1960.  I remember that year well and it was a very different time than 2019.

 Watch the replays of the 1960 Nixon-Kennedy debates. The moderators followed strict debate protocol, with both parties obeying time limits and comporting themselves respectfully.  This is a far cry from what we have observed in our much more recent political history.  The very thought that a candidate for President  would mock or intimidate his rival on live TV would have been inconceivable in the year 1960. Ted Rogers, Tom Dewey and other GOP professionals urged Nixon to tone down his rhetoric and refrain from attacking Kennedy so as to appear "Presidential".

Nixon's shortcoming in the first debate were due more to his appearance than his debating skills. He was pale, sick with a fever and underweight from a hospital stay due to a serious staph infection. Kennedy appeared tan, handsome and vigorous in comparison.  Nixon looked much better in the later debates but you know what they say about first impressions.

If LBJ had somehow won the 1960 Democratic Presidential Nomination, my best guess is that he would back down from debating Nixon, an experienced debater from high school through college through his McKeesport, PA debate with JFK in 1947.  Nixon was also the first politician to make successful use of live TV; the 1952 Fund (Checkers) Speech.

No, LBJ would have never been nominated for President in his own right.  As much as he attempted to make himself out as a Westerner rather than a Southerner, he would go over like a lead balloon up North.  I agree that he would have won many Southern states but the loss of the Northern and Midwestern states that a 1960 LBJ campaign would engender give the GOP a significant win. Read David Pietruska's "1960" for an in-depth look at that years' Presidential campaign.

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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2019, 04:27:14 PM »

LBJ was running against JFK in the primary and could of sewn up the election with Nixon, but JFK won and he became Veep, then Prez.
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