Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion Thread

[Dereich]

So, it is a foregone conclusion that Missandei's murder will make Daenerys go full tyrant, leading to Tyrion conspiring with Sansa to oust her?

I think that would require Sansa to go south for some reason. I doubt she will.

[Xing]

I somehow totally missed this thread. Anyway, I could do a full effortpost, but I'll just say that you can add me to the list of people unhappy with how hastily they're trying to wrap everything up (and how the Great War ended.) I'm not surprised, though. That's always a problem with complex sagas that involve multiple different story arcs and tons of characters that have developed and changed. Unless the stories of several main characters start wrapping up quite a bit before the end of the entire story, the overall ending feels rushed and messy. And if they wrap up some arcs of the story earlier on, the whole universe in which the story takes place feels as though it shrinks. I definitely started to feel that they faced a mixture of those two problems in the seventh season; they were writing several major characters and places out of the story, to bring all of the main characters together, as well as having some main characters act in a way that seemed out of character, just because that got them closer to a potential ending that would at least tie everything together.

Anyway, I'm not sure who will end up on the most uncomfortable chair in the world. We've heard for a while that it'll be a bittersweet ending. Well, it seems like D&D are going for one that is much more sweet than it is bitter (like episode 3), so maybe that means Daenerys, but who knows? Maybe her decision to make Gendry the legitimate son of Robert Baratheon means he'll be the one on the throne. That's an idea that I had, since Jon/Dany ruling would be very predictable.

[Blue3]

Jon is more stable but also more incompetent.

The best chance for Westeros is for them to become a United Kingdom of Westeros, no more Seven Kingdoms, and begin ever so slightly shifting towards something like a Parliament or Magna Carta.

In the books, there were times in the past where a Great Council (a "House of Lords" you could say) gathered to choose the next King, based on inheritance. Imagine they now all have to come together every 10 years, and choose a new monarch, not based on inheritance but on who they thought was best. That would be the ground-breaker. That would break the wheel... or at least allow the wheel to spin without needing violence or necessarily crushing those beneath. With a hint that, in a few centuries, maybe they'll have a permanent House of Lords, and maybe after that a House of Commons, etc.

Or maybe some other reform?

Or maybe they just all declare independence, and it's truly Seven (or Eight or Nine or Ten or More, depending on if you count the Riverlands, Dorne, Crownlands, Beyond the Wall, and other autonomous regions like Oldtown and Skagos) Kingdoms again?

[John Dule]

Two years ago I was skeptical that they were going the "Mad Queen" route with Dany, because I've always hated her character and I figured that the writers were going to put her on the throne at the end for #GirlPower points. Now, I'm convinced she's going to go insane, die, and in the process destroy the Iron Throne somehow. I'll bump this comment in two weeks.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Jon is more stable but also more incompetent.

The best chance for Westeros is for them to become a United Kingdom of Westeros, no more Seven Kingdoms, and begin ever so slightly shifting towards something like a Parliament or Magna Carta.

In the books, there were times in the past where a Great Council (a "House of Lords" you could say) gathered to choose the next King, based on inheritance. Imagine they now all have to come together every 10 years, and choose a new monarch, not based on inheritance but on who they thought was best. That would be the ground-breaker. That would break the wheel... or at least allow the wheel to spin without needing violence or necessarily crushing those beneath. With a hint that, in a few centuries, maybe they'll have a permanent House of Lords, and maybe after that a House of Commons, etc.

Or maybe some other reform?

Or maybe they just all declare independence, and it's truly Seven (or Eight or Nine or Ten or More, depending on if you count the Riverlands, Dorne, Crownlands, Beyond the Wall, and other autonomous regions like Oldtown and Skagos) Kingdoms again?

It has been my theory for some time now that by the end there will be so many people dead (including Daenarys and Jon) that they're gonna offer Tyrion the crown, but he's just gonna say "nope" and walk away...

[Blair]

After episodes 2 and 3 I was regaining faith in the series (although I would have liked to see someone materially important die) but god that last episode.

Dany once again shows she has absolutely no military strategy; I really disliked how when she had the Martells, the Tyrells and the unsullied she stupidly lost them as she decided to sail her army around Westeros rather than just land them and March on Kings a Landing.

The same applies for this episode- I can’t work out if they’ve written Dany to be useless or if they’re just being lazy and wanted to level the decks.

I lost interest in the throne chase when they just made Cersei Queen somehow; even as someone who loved the political plotting miles more than the magic, I feel they’ve really rushed and messed up large chunks of the political story

[Frodo]

There is a theory going around that the Golden Company may betray Cersei and support either Daenerys or Aegon (aka Jon Snow) for the Iron Throne.

Thoughts?

[DINGO Joe]

There is a theory going around that the Golden Company may betray Cersei and support either Daenerys or Aegon (aka Jon Snow) for the Iron Throne.

Thoughts?

They're sellswords and it's possible that the Iron Bank plays the game too, but that's more of a book style plot than a D&D speed round mode. 

Hopefully, they pull the old switcheroo with Daenerys and don't have her go mad (when making it look obvious she will).  I'm just hoping somebody actually does something smart in the final two episodes.

Tyrion did some nice work with the whole Cersei baby guilt thing and letting Euron know it wasn't his. 

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If you do a google image search for Bad Writers, the second result is a picture of D&D

[Blair]

FWIW does anyone know what's happened to Dorne's Army?

There is a theory going around that the Golden Company may betray Cersei and support either Daenerys or Aegon (aka Jon Snow) for the Iron Throne.

Thoughts?

The Golden Company has the sole aim of getting rid of House Targyaren; there's a line in the books where they say 'some contracts are written in ink, others are written in blood'.

Not sure how many people know but they were set up by a bastard strain of House Targyaren; and for them to flip it would pretty much require a huge part of the lore to be changed.

[Frodo]

FWIW does anyone know what's happened to Dorne's Army?

There is a theory going around that the Golden Company may betray Cersei and support either Daenerys or Aegon (aka Jon Snow) for the Iron Throne.

Thoughts?

The Golden Company has the sole aim of getting rid of House Targyaren; there's a line in the books where they say 'some contracts are written in ink, others are written in blood'.

Not sure how many people know but they were set up by a bastard strain of House Targyaren; and for them to flip it would pretty much require a huge part of the lore to be changed.

I think the door to them supporting a Targaryen on the Iron Throne is very much open.

From the 'Dance with Dragons':

Tyrion: How did you convince the Golden Company to take up the cause of our sweet queen when they have spent so much of their history fighting against the Targaryens?

Illyrio: Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon. When Maelys the Monstrous died upon the Stepstones, it was the end of the male line of House Blackfyre. And Daenerys will give the exiles what Bittersteel and the Blackfyres never could. She will take them home.

And on the show, I think D & D will have them intervening on behalf of Daenerys and/or Aegon at the 11th hour -they want a happy ending. 

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I do think it's a sign of how bad the writing has gotten that I was relieved that Missandei wasn't killed by Cersei responding to Tyrion's speech about how she should resign for the sake of her child by saying "The things I do for love," and then pushing Missandei over the wall.

[free my dawg]

I see the bowel movement is continuing.

[Dereich]

Thanks, I hate it.

[Hindsight was 2020]

I can see this working in the books when you have like 100,000 pages left and elements like Faegon in play but having Dany go full blown insane like they did has had little to no buildup

[GoTfan]

And the circlejerk of hate continues.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

Yep, D&D ruined a perfectly good show. WTF was the point of the Golden Company?

At least Dany will go out a queen.

[DINGO Joe]

There is a theory going around that the Golden Company may betray Cersei and support either Daenerys or Aegon (aka Jon Snow) for the Iron Throne.

Thoughts?

They're sellswords and it's possible that the Iron Bank plays the game too, but that's more of a book style plot than a D&D speed round mode. 

Hopefully, they pull the old switcheroo with Daenerys and don't have her go mad (when making it look obvious she will).  I'm just hoping somebody actually does something smart in the final two episodes.

Tyrion did some nice work with the whole Cersei baby guilt thing and letting Euron know it wasn't his. 

Well, Arya did something smart and got a magic pony out of it.  That's about it.

[7,052,770]

My assumption when Euron wounded Jaime is that he would die, Arya would find him and wear his face to kill Cersei. When we first saw Jaime in the map room, I thought I was right. But then I wasn't. Seems like a wasted opportunity.

[Dereich]

Arya was in the preview...I'm not really sure what they're doing with her now. Are they having her stick around to kill Daenerys? If so, what was the point of Sandor's last words to her?

Yep, D&D ruined a perfectly good show. WTF was the point of the Golden Company?

At least Dany will go out a queen.

The point of the Golden Company was to be a tool that D&D could use to make it look like Cersei wasn't immediately doomed as soon as Drogon sneezed in their direction. They had no interest in the Golden Company beyond that use as a tool, so they got rid of them as soon as they could. Basically the same thing they did with the whole of the Vale and Dorne.

[Helsinkian]

[Helsinkian]

[Blue3]

For such a major plot point, I don't think the books will be different.

The execution of this episode was great.

The idea was horrible, but it will probably be true in the books too. Daenerys has begun having hallucinations. She flies off on Drogon, leaving Meereen behind. She watches her brother's death without empathy. She burns the witch alive. She betrays the owner of the Unsullied and sacks the city. She crucifies random masters in Meereen, and randomly chooses more to feed to her dragons.
And in the show, she's already had to be talked out of burning down her enemies by Tyrion, nevermind what happened with the Khals.

I think the end for Jaime and Cersei was perfect. They were bad people, but still humans, still sympathetic. Jaime had his arms around her as the life left her body... just not in the way anyone expected. (And that prophecy was never in the show anyways). GRRM wants to show that revenge is not the answer... to want to see Cersei murdered, especially strangled by her own brother, is our own worst impulses, the ones Daenerys gave into. Theon had the redemption arc. Jaime was just a character study, he's still the same person, he never changed at his core.

The episode was beautifully tragic.

[Dereich]

The difference, of course, is that in every one of those previous cases reasons had been laid out why Dany felt justified and we as an audience (usually) agreed she was justified in doing so. In this case, they didn't. They had Daenerys prioritize attacking civilians because ?

[Helsinkian]

The difference, of course, is that in every one of those previous cases reasons had been laid out why Dany felt justified and we as an audience (usually) agreed she was justified in doing so. In this case, they didn't. They had Daenerys prioritize attacking civilians because ?

Executing the Tarlys in S7 after they had laid down their arms was not much different from this.