Atlasian Citizens for a Balanced Budget

[afleitch]

Following on from Jakes announcement that Atlasia after much deliberation and delay will not go ahead with the budget due to preperations for war, we the Citizens of Atlasia demand that  a budget deal be reached. So that we may be sound in the knowledge of how our government will spend our money and how it will effect the financial situation of each individual citizen and of our nation.

Signed:

Afleitch x

[Gabu]

A fully balanced budget will require us to cut over $400 billion out of our budget.  What do you want us to cut?

With all due respect, demanding a balanced budget while giving no hint with regards to what we should do to achieve that goal is not very helpful.  I thought as well that it would be a great idea to have a balanced budget until I sat down and actually figured out what we'd need to do to get there.

[afleitch]

Hell ANY budget will do at this rate! We need to know how our government is going to spend our money.

[Ebowed]

x Senator Ebowed

[Jake]

Y'all deliver a plan that doesn't include gutting public services or the military and that you can get five senators to agree on, and I'll vote for it. Until then, sit down son.

[CheeseWhiz]

A fully balanced budget will require us to cut over $400 billion out of our budget.  What do you want us to cut?

The department of Health and Human Services.  I’m pretty sure cutting that will give us a surplus.  But alas, it’s too extreme, and the senate would never approve it.

[Ebowed]

Y'all deliver a plan that doesn't include gutting public services or the military and that you can get five senators to agree on, and I'll vote for it. Until then, sit down son.

That's exactly the problem; the inability to compromise.  You can't "gut" public services?  Fine, let's do a tax hike.  Or is that too controversial as well?

[Bono]

Y'all deliver a plan that doesn't include gutting public services or the military and that you can get five senators to agree on, and I'll vote for it. Until then, sit down son.

What's wrong with gutting public services?
Are you afraid of doing something because it is too controversial, like the old senate?

Anyways X Bono

[Gabu]

Hell ANY budget will do at this rate! We need to know how our government is going to spend our money.

Well, I personally feel that it will be better in the long run to get things right than to get them done in the fastest way possible.  Rest assured that we will complete this budget; it's not as if I'm trying to just put it off.  I would just prefer that we not act like a bull in a china shop with public services and then greatly regret it later, as I am completely sure we will.

Playing devil's advocate here, we elected you senators thinking that you would be able to handle the job of senator and its duties.  We are not the ones that are supposed to have the great ideas for the government.  (Well, I am but not the citizens without government jobs)

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that asking for something without giving any idea with regards to how it's done is not helpful.  If a manager dictates to his employees what should be done, the manager should reasonbly be expected to be able to answer questions with regards to how he wants it done.

[Ebowed]

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that asking for something without giving any idea with regards to how it's done is not helpful.  If a manager dictates to his employees what should be done, the manager should reasonbly be expected to be able to answer questions with regards to how he wants it done.

It may not be directly helpful, but there's nothing wrong with giving your opinion on an issue.  The West Atlasia secession that wanted voter reform didn't tell us what to do, but they made it loud and clear that they wanted reform, hence your rush to write a secret ballot amendment and reform bill.

We are Senators, after all, and if a constituent says it may not be a good idea to run away from the deficit, there's nothing wrong with taking that into account even if they don't have their own specific plan to offer.

[Gabu]

That's exactly the problem; the inability to compromise.  You can't "gut" public services?  Fine, let's do a tax hike.  Or is that too controversial as well?

But that's just it.  With the current budget requirements, there are no compromises.  Either we do enough major cutting or tax hikes to get under the limit or we don't.  There isn't any middle ground.  That's exactly why I want to remove the current requirement that we must have the deficit under a certain level.

[The Duke]

We actually do have a budget, afleitch.. Its not balanced, but we know exactly where the money goes.

[Ebowed]

But that's just it.  With the current budget requirements, there are no compromises.  Either we do enough major cutting or tax hikes to get under the limit or we don't.  There isn't any middle ground.  That's exactly why I want to remove the current requirement that we must have the deficit under a certain level.

We can either cut programs and spending, raise taxes, or a combination of both (the third option being the "middle ground").  Just because certain Senators don't want to do anything about it doesn't mean there's no middle ground.

[afleitch]

[The Duke]

But that's just it.  With the current budget requirements, there are no compromises.  Either we do enough major cutting or tax hikes to get under the limit or we don't.  There isn't any middle ground.  That's exactly why I want to remove the current requirement that we must have the deficit under a certain level.

We can either cut programs and spending, raise taxes, or a combination of both (the third option being the "middle ground").  Just because certain Senators don't want to do anything about it doesn't mean there's no middle ground.

That middle ground that sounds a bit like a scorched earth.

[Bono]

HAHA that's a classic.

[Gabu]

We are not the managers in this situation.  We elected senators to do that for us.  You were the ones who were supposed to know how to do this.  Using your analogy, the people of Atlasia better represent the corporation that hired the managers (senators) that were supposed to be Harvard graduates when in reality we have a gaggle of community college dropouts.  We elected you because you claimed to be able to do certain jobs for us, you should be able to do those jobs without our help, that's why you are the senators.

That's what we're doing.  However, by telling us to make our budget balanced, you're telling us that you don't want us to do it the way we're currently doing.  However, you have given us no concrete information regarding how you want us to do it.  If you want something done the way you want it done, you need to give how you want it done.  We're not mind-readers.

[afleitch]

In addition, why were all those programs created if Atlasia clearly cannot afford it?  The northeast budget that I am working on has a $23 billion surplus.  It is not impossible to create a fiscally sound budget, you just need responsible officials.

Exactly. Senators do your job; someone take the iniative and make the tough decisions that are necessary even if they upset the political views of fellow officials. Cut the budget, make the tough decisions needed and vote on them.

[Bono]

Why don't you cut programs Bono vs Atlasia II has declared unconstitutional?

[afleitch]

HAHA that's a classic.

Thank you. I may start a Political Cartoon thread for Atlasia

[The Duke]

In addition, why were all those programs created if Atlasia clearly cannot afford it?  The northeast budget that I am working on has a $23 billion surplus.  It is not impossible to create a fiscally sound budget, you just need responsible officials.

Is the Northeast occupying Iraq?

[Gabu]

We can either cut programs and spending, raise taxes, or a combination of both (the third option being the "middle ground").  Just because certain Senators don't want to do anything about it doesn't mean there's no middle ground.

A combination of one thing that one side doesn't want to do with another thing that the same side also doesn't want to do is not a "middle ground".  Your proposed solution is probably palatable to even less people than just cutting programs.

[Ebowed]

Your proposed solution is probably palatable to even less people than just cutting programs.

What proposed solution?  I support DanielX's "chainsaw" bill and other program cuts if necessary.  I never advocated raising taxes, only that it's an option that some people don't recognize is there.

[Bono]

If someone posts the current budget, a thing you all seem too eager not to do, I'll give you a balanced budget out of it in no time.

[Gabu]

If someone posts the current budget, a thing you all seem too eager not to do, I'll give you a balanced budget out of it in no time.

It's readily available in the budget thread.  I don't think anyone has stated that a balanced budget is impossible, only that it's not preferable to what we would have to do to obtain one.  It obviously is quite easy to get a balanced budget if you just rip giant chunks out of it until you've eliminated enough spending.