Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[Badger]

https://mobile.twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808?ref_src=twsrc%5...

Wtf are you talking about?  Serious question.

The government said only 76 accounts were frozen, so I strongly doubt Briane's story or even her existence.

Lol at trusting a government that is clearly fascist

 Lol at trusting OSR to  Have the slightest clue is to what "fascist" means.

Says the guy who is defending the person who called a Jewish MP a Nazi

 Because I'm saying that you are demonstrating gross ignorance claiming the Canadian government is "fascist",  And further have a  nuanced  And tepid support for the Is Canadian government's temporary freezing of bank accounts contributing to to the illegal trucker protests-all 76  Of them-somehow that conflicts with me "defending" Trudeau's untoward and inappropriate comments in Parliament?  Which I in fact did (checks notes)  0 times?

 Pipe down, beep boop.  We are more than used to your posts being stubbornly ill-informed, but your increasingly crossing the line into outright dishonesty is an ugly look.

[DC Al Fine]

https://twitter.com/BenWoodfinden/status/1495887183999340547?s=19

Agree with Woodfinden here. It's a shame how indifferent the NDP is to this government using emergency powers to restrict civil liberties. Tommy Douglas was far more critical of the government using emergency powers in a much more serious situation.

This isn't your grandfather's NDP anymore.

[Benjamin Frank]

I'm not sure what it says that the poll I've seen on the imposition of the Emergencies Act was at 51% in favor and 42% against.  

In 1970, outside of Quebec anyway, I believe support for the imposition of the War Measures Act to deal with the FLQ was around 90%.

Around the same time, from the book Turning Point: 1968 by Irwin Unger and Debi Unger (Page 499): A Harris Poll soon after the Democratic Convention (in Chicago) showed that 66% of Americans agreed with the statement "Mayor Daley was right the way he used police against demonstrators."

The police action was shown on live television and was later described by an investigating commission as a 'police riot.'

I think things have swung too far the other way and too many people are too concerned with the rights of law breakers.  The occupation of Ottawa was illegal and the people who participated are law breakers.

As far as I'm concerned their other acts: the constant honking of horns, their continual harassment of the people of Ottawa are terrorist acts, but that it a separate debate.  Preventing people from being able to move about freely is, in itself, an illegal act.  This was, in no way, a 'peaceful protest' as people here and as the Conservative Party has lied.

I don't know that I should make too much of one poll and one event, but this does seem to be a genuine sea change in public opinion from 50 years ago: a much greater focus on 'individual rights' compared to previous times, for good and ill.

It wouldn't surprise me if at least some of it ties in with all the 'self esteem' teaching in schools.

I'm sure I sound to some here like  "Hey you kids, get off the public lawn!"

[Benjamin Frank]

https://mobile.twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808?ref_src=twsrc%5...

The government said only 76 accounts were frozen, so I strongly doubt Briane's story or even her existence.

Lol at trusting a government that is clearly fascist

 Lol at trusting OSR to  Have the slightest clue is to what "fascist" means.

Says the guy who is defending the person who called a Jewish MP a Nazi

The ADL also is concerned that Melissa Lantsman is standing with 'Nazis.'

https://www.adl.org/blog/adl-finds-1100-people-donated-to-both-canada-freedom-convoy-and-jan-6-demonstration

ADL Finds 1,100 People Donated to Both Canada Freedom Convoy and Jan. 6 Demonstration

[Хahar 🤔]

It's a shame how indifferent the NDP is to this government using emergency powers to restrict civil liberties. Tommy Douglas was far more critical of the government using emergency powers in a much more serious situation.

This isn't your grandfather's NDP anymore.

One recalls that the young Jack Layton was drawn to the NDP thanks to Tommy Douglas's principled opposition to the invocation of the War Measures Act. The contemporary NDP would never do such a thing because it would involve taking any sort of stand at all.

[King of Kensington]

Elizabeth May is voting yes, while Green MP Mike Morrice is voting no.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic_vyGo2WhQ

https://mikemorricemp.ca/voting-on-the-emergencies-act/

[MaxQue]

It's a shame how indifferent the NDP is to this government using emergency powers to restrict civil liberties. Tommy Douglas was far more critical of the government using emergency powers in a much more serious situation.

This isn't your grandfather's NDP anymore.

One recalls that the young Jack Layton was drawn to the NDP thanks to Tommy Douglas's principled opposition to the invocation of the War Measures Act. The contemporary NDP would never do such a thing because it would involve taking any sort of stand at all.

Giving the keys of 24 Sussex Drive to Candice Bergen is worse than "principled opposition".

[Benjamin Frank]

It's a shame how indifferent the NDP is to this government using emergency powers to restrict civil liberties. Tommy Douglas was far more critical of the government using emergency powers in a much more serious situation.

This isn't your grandfather's NDP anymore.

One recalls that the young Jack Layton was drawn to the NDP thanks to Tommy Douglas's principled opposition to the invocation of the War Measures Act. The contemporary NDP would never do such a thing because it would involve taking any sort of stand at all.

This isn't the War Measures Act. The binary thinking here is getting ridiculous.

Although it was not the only reason Tommy Douglas and the NDP opposed it, part of their opposition was due to Douglas being a British Columbia M.P at the time.  Although he no longer represented Burnaby, he and the NDP were aware of then Vancouver mayor Tom Campbell who vowed to 'clean up the city' (of the hippies) if the War Measures Act was imposed, even though Vancouver hippies had nothing to do with Quebec FLQ.  

I believe then Surrey Mayor Bill Vander Zalm made a similar vow.  (Of course, Surrey was a fairly small city by population in 1970.)

There is no national suspension of civil liberties in this Emergency Act.

The comparisons with the NDP opposition in 1970 to the War Measures Act are tenuous at best.

"When the War Measures Act came into effect it gave arbitrary power to police right across Canada, not just in Quebec, and Mayor Campbell warned that he was going to use it not against terrorists but against hippies and layabouts, who he was fond of describing as “parasites on the community.""

https://www.danielfrancis.ca/blog/tales-city-8-tom-terrific-and-terrorists

Greater awareness of the history of the FLQ crisis might also be a help. 

1.The Quebec police were known to be hardline (I'm not sure this has changed all that much) which explains why several hundred separatists -very few if any involved with the FLQ - were arrested the same night The War Measures Act was imposed. The NDP also knew that.

2.Liberal Premier Robert Bourassa vacillated between wanting to negotiate with the FLQ terrorists and wanting to crack down on them. So, it was hardly the case that all regular policing options at that time had been tried.

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://mobile.twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808?ref_src=twsrc%5...

Wtf are you talking about?  Serious question.

The government said only 76 accounts were frozen, so I strongly doubt Briane's story or even her existence.

Lol at trusting a government that is clearly fascist

 Lol at trusting OSR to  Have the slightest clue is to what "fascist" means.

Says the guy who is defending the person who called a Jewish MP a Nazi

 Because I'm saying that you are demonstrating gross ignorance claiming the Canadian government is "fascist",  And further have a  nuanced  And tepid support for the Is Canadian government's temporary freezing of bank accounts contributing to to the illegal trucker protests-all 76  Of them-somehow that conflicts with me "defending" Trudeau's untoward and inappropriate comments in Parliament?  Which I in fact did (checks notes)  0 times?

 Pipe down, beep boop.  We are more than used to your posts being stubbornly ill-informed, but your increasingly crossing the line into outright dishonesty is an ugly look.

MaxQue is defending Trudeau's actions while Trudeau and his party are smearing all opposition. Just look at what some other liberal mp said today


https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1495961814420664327

[T'Chenka]

Randy Hillier, independent ex-PC MLA for Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston. Something something back the blue.

https://twitter.com/randyhillier/status/1495175113616105479

LOL what a moron. Calling 911 without needing any emergency help has nothing to do with "freedom". I also wonder if he knows how many of those callers were non-Canadians.

[T'Chenka]

https://twitter.com/BenWoodfinden/status/1495887183999340547?s=19

Agree with Woodfinden here. It's a shame how indifferent the NDP is to this government using emergency powers to restrict civil liberties. Tommy Douglas was far more critical of the government using emergency powers in a much more serious situation.

This isn't your grandfather's NDP anymore.

Ottawa (mayor / police) and Ontario (Doug Ford) were little cowards who refused to take action. Trudeau should not have needed to get involved, but Ottawa and Ontario put him in a bad position. He either acted or allowed this insanity to continue. I'm not a fan of the Emergencies Act being used in this kind of a situation, but if the city and province refuse to do anything...

[Badger]

https://mobile.twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808?ref_src=twsrc%5...

Wtf are you talking about?  Serious question.

The government said only 76 accounts were frozen, so I strongly doubt Briane's story or even her existence.

Lol at trusting a government that is clearly fascist

 Lol at trusting OSR to  Have the slightest clue is to what "fascist" means.

Says the guy who is defending the person who called a Jewish MP a Nazi

 Because I'm saying that you are demonstrating gross ignorance claiming the Canadian government is "fascist",  And further have a  nuanced  And tepid support for the Is Canadian government's temporary freezing of bank accounts contributing to to the illegal trucker protests-all 76  Of them-somehow that equates with me "defending" Trudeau's untoward and inappropriate comments in Parliament?  Which I in fact did (checks notes)  0 times?

 Pipe down, beep boop.  We are more than used to your posts being stubbornly ill-informed, but your increasingly crossing the line into outright dishonesty is an ugly look.

MaxQue is defending Trudeau's actions while Trudeau and his party are smearing all opposition. Just look at what some other liberal mp said today


https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1495961814420664327

I'm not Maxque, genius.

If you had any spine or ability to process new information whatsoever, you would apologize. But you don't, so you won't.

[T'Chenka]

MaxQue is defending Trudeau's actions while Trudeau and his party are smearing all opposition.

If we approach this from a strictly logical perspective, MaxQue defending Trudeau's actions on the Ottawa occupation does not automatically mean he is supporting Trudeau's party's actions in the House Of Commons. What if in the future, you support POTUS Trump doing something in 2025 and then Taylor-Greene shoots her mouth off in the House about something illogical. Would you like people to characterize you as supporting Greene's comments because she is in the POTUS' political party?

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://mobile.twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808?ref_src=twsrc%5...

Wtf are you talking about?  Serious question.

The government said only 76 accounts were frozen, so I strongly doubt Briane's story or even her existence.

Lol at trusting a government that is clearly fascist

 Lol at trusting OSR to  Have the slightest clue is to what "fascist" means.

Says the guy who is defending the person who called a Jewish MP a Nazi

 Because I'm saying that you are demonstrating gross ignorance claiming the Canadian government is "fascist",  And further have a  nuanced  And tepid support for the Is Canadian government's temporary freezing of bank accounts contributing to to the illegal trucker protests-all 76  Of them-somehow that equates with me "defending" Trudeau's untoward and inappropriate comments in Parliament?  Which I in fact did (checks notes)  0 times?

 Pipe down, beep boop.  We are more than used to your posts being stubbornly ill-informed, but your increasingly crossing the line into outright dishonesty is an ugly look.

MaxQue is defending Trudeau's actions while Trudeau and his party are smearing all opposition. Just look at what some other liberal mp said today


https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1495961814420664327

I'm not Maxque, genius.

If you had any spine or ability to process new information whatsoever, you would apologize. But you don't, so you won't.

When I said “says the guy” it was referencing the argument I was having with MaxQue not you . Sorry that I didn’t make that more clear

[OSR stands with Israel]

MaxQue is defending Trudeau's actions while Trudeau and his party are smearing all opposition.

If we approach this from a strictly logical perspective, MaxQue defending Trudeau's actions on the Ottawa occupation does not automatically mean he is supporting Trudeau's party's actions in the House Of Commons. What if in the future, you support POTUS Trump doing something in 2025 and then Taylor-Greene shoots her mouth off in the House about something illogical. Would you like people to characterize you as supporting Greene's comments because she is in the POTUS' political party?

I mean Trudeau's actions are what I find so extremely authoritarian and a clear disregard for basic democratic principles. The reason I have brought up what Trudeau and liberal mp's have said in the House of Commons is that Maxque basically got so upset by my characterization of Trudeau's polices as fascist when Trudeau and his party at this very moment are justifying the use of emergency powers by smearing their opponents as fascists.

 

[T'Chenka]

MaxQue is defending Trudeau's actions while Trudeau and his party are smearing all opposition.

If we approach this from a strictly logical perspective, MaxQue defending Trudeau's actions on the Ottawa occupation does not automatically mean he is supporting Trudeau's party's actions in the House Of Commons. What if in the future, you support POTUS Trump doing something in 2025 and then Taylor-Greene shoots her mouth off in the House about something illogical. Would you like people to characterize you as supporting Greene's comments because she is in the POTUS' political party?

I mean Trudeau's actions are what I find so extremely authoritarian and a clear disregard for basic democratic principles. The reason I have brought up what Trudeau and liberal mp's have said in the House of Commons is that Maxque basically got so upset by my characterization of Trudeau's polices as fascist when Trudeau and his party at this very moment are justifying the use of emergency powers by smearing their opponents as fascists.

 

To be clear, Trudeau's opponents are in the House of Commons, and they are the Conservative and Bloc Quebecois MPs who think evoking the Emergencies Act was overreach. The libertarian blockade occupation was organized by 4 or 5 far right extremists, some of whom are sympathetic to fascism. Not to say that the majority of the boots on the ground were far right extremists. Trudeau would not have needed to use the Emergencies Act to clean this up if Doug Ford had simply done it himself. He wouldn't have done it though, as Ford has an election coming up in a few months. Why Ottawa didn't clean it up before passing it on Ford is a bit of a mystery to me. Bottom line, somebody needed to do something at some point, and there is a much stronger argument for calling Pat King a fascist than Justin Trudeau.

[CumbrianLefty]

I'm not sure what it says that the poll I've seen on the imposition of the Emergencies Act was at 51% in favor and 42% against.  

In 1970, outside of Quebec anyway, I believe support for the imposition of the War Measures Act to deal with the FLQ was around 90%.

Around the same time, from the book Turning Point: 1968 by Irwin Unger and Debi Unger (Page 499): A Harris Poll soon after the Democratic Convention (in Chicago) showed that 66% of Americans agreed with the statement "Mayor Daley was right the way he used police against demonstrators."

The police action was shown on live television and was later described by an investigating commission as a 'police riot.'

Polling in the US also showed massive support for the Kent State Massacre - several rang phone-ins to say their only regret was that even more "bums" hadn't been killed.

[Hatman 🍁]

As a resident of Ottawa, shame on all of you who oppose the passing of the emergency act. It has allowed us to return the city to some semblance of normality. I am proud of the NDP's support of it, and it's important to note that their support is tentative, which is key. And Jack Layton would have supported it to, just ask his son or Olivia Chow. And Ed Broadbent supports it too. If the NDP didn't support it, I'd probably looking at a new political home for the first time in my adult life.

This isn't the War Measures Act. The charter has not been suspended. Stop whining about civil liberties. What about the civil liberties of Ottawans? They've been effectively suspended for the last 3 weeks.

[MaxQue]

MaxQue is defending Trudeau's actions while Trudeau and his party are smearing all opposition.

If we approach this from a strictly logical perspective, MaxQue defending Trudeau's actions on the Ottawa occupation does not automatically mean he is supporting Trudeau's party's actions in the House Of Commons. What if in the future, you support POTUS Trump doing something in 2025 and then Taylor-Greene shoots her mouth off in the House about something illogical. Would you like people to characterize you as supporting Greene's comments because she is in the POTUS' political party?

I mean Trudeau's actions are what I find so extremely authoritarian and a clear disregard for basic democratic principles. The reason I have brought up what Trudeau and liberal mp's have said in the House of Commons is that Maxque basically got so upset by my characterization of Trudeau's polices as fascist when Trudeau and his party at this very moment are justifying the use of emergency powers by smearing their opponents as fascists.

 

Is it a smear if it's true?

[Hatman 🍁]

https://twitter.com/mattskubeCTV/status/1496176520846626817

Nope, no emergency here. Everything is clearly hunky dory in this city.

I'm not going to feel safe until all the yahoos are gone.

[MaxQue]

https://twitter.com/mattskubeCTV/status/1496176520846626817

Nope, no emergency here. Everything is clearly hunky dory in this city.

I'm not going to feel safe until all the yahoos are gone.

The police was weak again, they should have been forced to go home, instead of being allowed to go terrorize Embrun instead.

[Badger]

https://mobile.twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808?ref_src=twsrc%5...

Wtf are you talking about?  Serious question.

The government said only 76 accounts were frozen, so I strongly doubt Briane's story or even her existence.

Lol at trusting a government that is clearly fascist

 Lol at trusting OSR to  Have the slightest clue is to what "fascist" means.

Says the guy who is defending the person who called a Jewish MP a Nazi

 Because I'm saying that you are demonstrating gross ignorance claiming the Canadian government is "fascist",  And further have a  nuanced  And tepid support for the Is Canadian government's temporary freezing of bank accounts contributing to to the illegal trucker protests-all 76  Of them-somehow that equates with me "defending" Trudeau's untoward and inappropriate comments in Parliament?  Which I in fact did (checks notes)  0 times?

 Pipe down, beep boop.  We are more than used to your posts being stubbornly ill-informed, but your increasingly crossing the line into outright dishonesty is an ugly look.

MaxQue is defending Trudeau's actions while Trudeau and his party are smearing all opposition. Just look at what some other liberal mp said today


https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1495961814420664327

I'm not Maxque, genius.

If you had any spine or ability to process new information whatsoever, you would apologize. But you don't, so you won't.

When I said “says the guy” it was referencing the argument I was having with MaxQue not you . Sorry that I didn’t make that more clear

Got it. Apology accepted.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

I find it interesting how we're seeing a severe disconnect between the views of the domestic political establishment and of international observers and the press. Obviously American right wingers are having a grand time running with "Trudeau the Tyrant" but even the New York Times was subject to a struggle session from the Canadian "journalists" for reporting that protesters were arrested at gunpoint. After much preening about how ignorant these foreign journalists were for making up stories about our brave police it turned out that, indeed, protesters had been arrested at gunpoint.

Of all the parties most disgraced here, Canadian journalists might be at the top. Throughout the "crisis" they've acted like state media in how hard they've tried to avoid portraying the police or other institutions badly. Their response to a leaked RCMP chat of Mounties acting like a stereotype of fascist cops was to try to figure out the leaker. Their response to a photo of people being trampled by horses was to FACT CHECK some idiot from FOX who falsely claimed the woman was dead while implying or even stating that the trampling didn't happen. While she wasn't dead she was hospitalized despite the claims of the Ottawa Police that there were no injuries. And now the picture has gone viral:

https://twitter.com/ZubyMusic/status/1494822465364807688

I think Trudeau and our local bigshots still have the 20th Century mindset that Canada is a walled garden where only our local news outlets can have any influence on the public discourse. But in the year 2022 we have Starlink and people in pretty much every corner of Canada have access to independent and international coverage on the internet. It doesn't matter what CTV or the CBC claim when people can see defenseless protesters being kicked and bludgeoned for themselves with quick search. The claim that everyone present is an insurrectionist white supremacist falls apart when you notice the disproportionate number of indigenous people present, including aforementioned Trampled Lady who is a Tyendinaga Mohawk. Our state funded media might studiously avoid interviewing anyone who might dispel that narrative but unfortunately for them there are regular Ottawans willing to fill the gap for tens of thousands of people watching by livestream.

In turn, people from outside Canada can see the lack of violence from the protesters and the disproportionate response. The police used tactics normally reserved for violent riots against a clearly peaceful protest. Banks seizing the funds of organizers without a warrant is normally reserved for repressive dictatorships like Putin's Russia and seizing the funds of indirect supporters and donors goes beyond what even a tyrant like Putin does. The declaration of emergency powers, at best, demonstrates a severe lack of capability to protect essential infrastructure without the use of unprecedented measures. It also demonstrates severe hypocrisy: when India faced protests that blocked highways and caused severe economic damage, Trudeau recommended negotiations and claimed to "always stand with peaceful protesters". Naturally the Indians have been jumping on the blatant double standard:

https://twitter.com/AdvYuktiRathi/status/1494933509638881281

https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1494542088108609536

There are even European MEPs denouncing Trudeau

https://twitter.com/CristianTerhes/status/1495144987310317568

https://twitter.com/mislavkolakusic/status/1493515735523545089

It might take some time for it to set in among our elites but Canada is wildly out of line with the rest of the world right now. If we weren't protected by the double standard applied to "Developed Western Countries" we'd be getting internationally denounced like any tinpot dictatorship.

This isn't the War Measures Act. The charter has not been suspended. Stop whining about civil liberties.

It isn't suspended but it may as well be. Without judicial oversight the charter is about as useful as a toilet paper condom.

What about the civil liberties of Ottawans? They've been effectively suspended for the last 3 weeks.

Just like people have the choice to get vaccinated or to lose their job, Ottawans have the choice to live near Parliament Hill, a place where one might expect disruptive demonstrations to take place, or to live somewhere else.

Citizens of Seattle also endured a month long occupation, except their occupied zone had the highest murder rate of any country or city in the world and was ended not with unprecedented emergency powers or even with the precedented use of the National Guard but by the occupants leaving and police clearing up the stragglers after an armed militia gunned down two black kids. So you'll have to forgive me for not having much sympathy for our effete governing class having to endure some honking

I'm not sure what it says that the poll I've seen on the imposition of the Emergencies Act was at 51% in favor and 42% against.  

In 1970, outside of Quebec anyway, I believe support for the imposition of the War Measures Act to deal with the FLQ was around 90%.

Around the same time, from the book Turning Point: 1968 by Irwin Unger and Debi Unger (Page 499): A Harris Poll soon after the Democratic Convention (in Chicago) showed that 66% of Americans agreed with the statement "Mayor Daley was right the way he used police against demonstrators."

The police action was shown on live television and was later described by an investigating commission as a 'police riot.'

Polling in the US also showed massive support for the Kent State Massacre - several rang phone-ins to say their only regret was that even more "bums" hadn't been killed.

Cracking down is pretty much always popular at first. IIRC the Kent State polling had the margin at something like 53-10 in favour of opening fire. That opposition to the Emergencies Act from the start is already in the 30s is a bad sign for Trudeau. But now that there's no blockades and Ottawa has been cleared the justification has shifted from "we need Emergency Powers to remove the trucks" to "we need Emergency Powers because trucks could come back", an explanation unconvincing to the Globe & Mail or even the Beaverton. Pushing his luck might be a fatal miscalculation on Trudeau's part.

https://twitter.com/mattskubeCTV/status/1496176520846626817

Nope, no emergency here. Everything is clearly hunky dory in this city.

I'm not going to feel safe until all the yahoos are gone.

The police was weak again, they should have been forced to go home, instead of being allowed to go terrorize Embrun instead.

All available evidence suggests that it's an armed robber, not a terrorist.

If that actually turns out to be the case I'm going to laugh pretty hard that regular crime has given better justification for the "Emergency" than three weeks of occupation featuring zero drawn weapons.

EDIT: I'm not sure if this is true but someone on Twitter claimed that with two robberies and a murder "Red Zone" Ottawa has already experienced more violent crime than after nearly a month of trucker occupation

[Benjamin Frank]

MaxQue is defending Trudeau's actions while Trudeau and his party are smearing all opposition.

If we approach this from a strictly logical perspective, MaxQue defending Trudeau's actions on the Ottawa occupation does not automatically mean he is supporting Trudeau's party's actions in the House Of Commons. What if in the future, you support POTUS Trump doing something in 2025 and then Taylor-Greene shoots her mouth off in the House about something illogical. Would you like people to characterize you as supporting Greene's comments because she is in the POTUS' political party?

I mean Trudeau's actions are what I find so extremely authoritarian and a clear disregard for basic democratic principles. The reason I have brought up what Trudeau and liberal mp's have said in the House of Commons is that Maxque basically got so upset by my characterization of Trudeau's polices as fascist when Trudeau and his party at this very moment are justifying the use of emergency powers by smearing their opponents as fascists.

One thing I've mentioned here is I find it concerning that everything political now seems to be fought over absolutist 'principles' and rights rather than the practical side of issues.  

Michael Chong gave a thoughtful speech in which he went through the three criteria needed to enact the Emergencies Act and obviously came down against arguing that the government did not meet the third test, that all other methods to end this occupation had been tried, but I don't believe he said what the federal government could have tried first.

I'll see if I can find his speech when I have more time.

So much of this seems to depend on which side of the political fence people stand on.  I haven't looked at the thread, but for instance, I wonder how many of those on the right here refer to Florida Governor Ron deSantis as an authoritarian for his 'don't say gay' legislation.

Or, in an earlier time, not that the U.K has a written Constitution, but Conservatives in 1981 certainly liked Conservative U.K Prime Minister for her dictatorial leadership  and refusal to compromise.  The people of Scotland certainly regarded her as a dictator and under her tenure, Scotland went from being a Conservative leaning area to solid Labour.

This section of her 1981 speech at the Conservative Convention highlighted her dictatorial style and the positive reaction to it.  She wasn't known as the 'Iron Lady' for nothing.

For what it's worth, these are a few of the replies:

Michael Walker
3 months ago (edited)
God bless lady Thatcher our Iron Lady greatly and sadly missed her name will be etched in history as one of the greatest  Prime Ministers of the 20th century


MrMrmike5
10 years ago
The 80's...awesome. That was when people actually got things done. People may not agree with what happened, but nevertheless, something did happen.

Sales Consultant
12 years ago
That's what you call a real Prime Minister !

As I remarked elsewhere, when people say "The government didn't consult enough" it almost always means "the government didn't do what I wanted."

In the 1980s, I think mostly on the political right I think there clearly wasn't enough concern for fundamental rights, but I think there is too much concern now for rights and principles, although, as I said above, I wonder how much concern there is for these things on the right when there is a right wing leader.

In general though, I think there needs to be a better balancing between rights and 'law and order', and that a greater focus on the practically of an issue would be a good place to start.

[T'Chenka]

One thing I've mentioned here is I find it concerning that everything political now seems to be fought over absolutist 'principles' and rights rather than the practical side of issues.  

Michael Chong gave a thoughtful speech in which he went through the three criteria needed to enact the Emergencies Act and obviously came down against arguing that the government did not meet the third test, that all other methods to end this occupation had been tried, but I don't believe he said what the federal government could have tried first.

I'll see if I can find his speech when I have more time.

Ottawa and Ontario refused to resolve the situation. Trudeau was basically forced to sit and watch Doug Ford do nothing, or invoke the Emergencies Act. I'm not saying that I 100% agree with it being used in this way, but Imyself and a lot of other Canadians felt strongly that somebody had to do something about this. Ideally it would have been Ottawa / Doug Ford.

If Trudeau didn't do this, it could have gotten much uglier.