Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[mileslunn]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/millennials-nearly-twice-as-likely-to-vote-for-conservatives-over-liberals-new-survey-suggests/article_7875f9b4-c818-547e-bf68-0f443ba321dc.html

Congrats to Trudeau for making Canada the first anglo-country where millenials might vote to the right of boomers.

I think that has more to do with left has been in power longest here.  I have found globally millennials tend to be more anti-status quo while boomers more status quo and less right vs. left.  True in English speaking world has favoured left, but also Canada saw leftward swing earlier than others.  US is different in that they have strong racial divide and millennials are 40% non-white while boomers only 15%.  Amongst whites I believe age divide much smaller and if you throw in education disappears as higher Democrat support amongst millennials more due to fact more likely to have a college degree.  Pretty sure Trump won white millennials without a college degree.

UK is probably due to austerity a decade ago as theirs was quite extreme and that really hurt support with millennials.  If Poilievre tries to implement austerity at level David Cameron did, probably similar thing happens in Canada.  Luckily for him, deficit is only around 1-2% of GDP, not 10% like it was in UK so probably not needed unless takes supply side approach of massive unfunded tax cuts like Liz Truss did.

Obama was also the most popular leader among millennials in any Anglo nation as well . Unlike with Trudeau he remained popular with millennial voters throughout his term

Very true and Obama also a lot smarter than Trudeau.  He was also a good listener and didn't have attitude he was smartest person in room like Trudeau does.  Trudeau is a good campaigner, strong in charisma, but he seems to have a certain level of arrogance that I didn't detect with Obama.

I think also Democrats due to less success in winning than Liberals in Canada tend to be more humble whereas in Canada, dominance of Liberals in past century has led to many to let it get to head they are natural governing party even though not sure if that is true anymore.

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/millennials-nearly-twice-as-likely-to-vote-for-conservatives-over-liberals-new-survey-suggests/article_7875f9b4-c818-547e-bf68-0f443ba321dc.html

Congrats to Trudeau for making Canada the first anglo-country where millenials might vote to the right of boomers.

I think that has more to do with left has been in power longest here.  I have found globally millennials tend to be more anti-status quo while boomers more status quo and less right vs. left.  True in English speaking world has favoured left, but also Canada saw leftward swing earlier than others.  US is different in that they have strong racial divide and millennials are 40% non-white while boomers only 15%.  Amongst whites I believe age divide much smaller and if you throw in education disappears as higher Democrat support amongst millennials more due to fact more likely to have a college degree.  Pretty sure Trump won white millennials without a college degree.

UK is probably due to austerity a decade ago as theirs was quite extreme and that really hurt support with millennials.  If Poilievre tries to implement austerity at level David Cameron did, probably similar thing happens in Canada.  Luckily for him, deficit is only around 1-2% of GDP, not 10% like it was in UK so probably not needed unless takes supply side approach of massive unfunded tax cuts like Liz Truss did.

Obama was also the most popular leader among millennials in any Anglo nation as well . Unlike with Trudeau he remained popular with millennial voters throughout his term

Very true and Obama also a lot smarter than Trudeau.  He was also a good listener and didn't have attitude he was smartest person in room like Trudeau does.  Trudeau is a good campaigner, strong in charisma, but he seems to have a certain level of arrogance that I didn't detect with Obama.

I think also Democrats due to less success in winning than Liberals in Canada tend to be more humble whereas in Canada, dominance of Liberals in past century has led to many to let it get to head they are natural governing party even though not sure if that is true anymore.

The thing is it’s not even been really true since 1984 as the Tories have been in power for 19 years since then compared to the Liberals 20 .

Prior to 1984 it was only true but arguably less true than 1932-1980 democrats who unlike the liberals dominated at all levels for decades

[mileslunn]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/millennials-nearly-twice-as-likely-to-vote-for-conservatives-over-liberals-new-survey-suggests/article_7875f9b4-c818-547e-bf68-0f443ba321dc.html

Congrats to Trudeau for making Canada the first anglo-country where millenials might vote to the right of boomers.

I think that has more to do with left has been in power longest here.  I have found globally millennials tend to be more anti-status quo while boomers more status quo and less right vs. left.  True in English speaking world has favoured left, but also Canada saw leftward swing earlier than others.  US is different in that they have strong racial divide and millennials are 40% non-white while boomers only 15%.  Amongst whites I believe age divide much smaller and if you throw in education disappears as higher Democrat support amongst millennials more due to fact more likely to have a college degree.  Pretty sure Trump won white millennials without a college degree.

UK is probably due to austerity a decade ago as theirs was quite extreme and that really hurt support with millennials.  If Poilievre tries to implement austerity at level David Cameron did, probably similar thing happens in Canada.  Luckily for him, deficit is only around 1-2% of GDP, not 10% like it was in UK so probably not needed unless takes supply side approach of massive unfunded tax cuts like Liz Truss did.

Obama was also the most popular leader among millennials in any Anglo nation as well . Unlike with Trudeau he remained popular with millennial voters throughout his term

Very true and Obama also a lot smarter than Trudeau.  He was also a good listener and didn't have attitude he was smartest person in room like Trudeau does.  Trudeau is a good campaigner, strong in charisma, but he seems to have a certain level of arrogance that I didn't detect with Obama.

I think also Democrats due to less success in winning than Liberals in Canada tend to be more humble whereas in Canada, dominance of Liberals in past century has led to many to let it get to head they are natural governing party even though not sure if that is true anymore.

The thing is it’s not even been really true since 1984 as the Tories have been in power for 19 years since then compared to the Liberals 20 .

Prior to 1984 it was only true but arguably less true than 1932-1980 democrats who unlike the liberals dominated at all levels for decades

I don't think Democrats ever thought of themselves as natural governing party the way Liberal party does.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/millennials-nearly-twice-as-likely-to-vote-for-conservatives-over-liberals-new-survey-suggests/article_7875f9b4-c818-547e-bf68-0f443ba321dc.html

Congrats to Trudeau for making Canada the first anglo-country where millenials might vote to the right of boomers.

I think that has more to do with left has been in power longest here.  I have found globally millennials tend to be more anti-status quo while boomers more status quo and less right vs. left.  True in English speaking world has favoured left, but also Canada saw leftward swing earlier than others.  US is different in that they have strong racial divide and millennials are 40% non-white while boomers only 15%.  Amongst whites I believe age divide much smaller and if you throw in education disappears as higher Democrat support amongst millennials more due to fact more likely to have a college degree.  Pretty sure Trump won white millennials without a college degree.

UK is probably due to austerity a decade ago as theirs was quite extreme and that really hurt support with millennials.  If Poilievre tries to implement austerity at level David Cameron did, probably similar thing happens in Canada.  Luckily for him, deficit is only around 1-2% of GDP, not 10% like it was in UK so probably not needed unless takes supply side approach of massive unfunded tax cuts like Liz Truss did.

Obama was also the most popular leader among millennials in any Anglo nation as well . Unlike with Trudeau he remained popular with millennial voters throughout his term

Yeah like Miles said it's partially because Obama is a better politician than Trudeau, but it's also because Canadian voters tend to be more fickle than American ones. Partisanship is more "cyclical" up here, it's less etched in stone. It's been a consistent pattern since the Mulroney era that governments only get 10ish years before voters decide it's over for them, and at that point it almost doesn't matter who the opposition is. Although if Poilievre maintains the CPC's current lead into the next election, it would definitely be a historically significant moment for the conservative movement.

Mulroney's 1984 landslide is out of reach for Poilievre, unless the Liberals really, truly, emphatically blow it over the next two years, beyond any Tory's wildest dreams - but the Mulroney landslide was never a sustainable win for the conservative movement and brand, because there were too many competing interests involved. He needed the votes of Quebec nationalists, who for the most part weren't even conservatives, but were single-issue PCs who wanted constitutional reform. When that fell through, so did the Mulroney coalition. With Poilievre, his coalition seems a genuinely conservative one, like Harper's, and of course Harper only got a majority on his fourth shot. Poilievre may do it on his first, the way things are shaping up.

As for young voters, I think some of it definitely is young people being more rebellious and anxious for "change", but even against unpopular Liberal governments, you rarely see Conservatives actually winning the youth vote. Doug Ford never reached these heights with 18-35s despite an even more unpopular Liberal government in Ontario that had been around even longer. There's certainly some kind of change around the corner, and I think it comes down to pocketbook issues, where I think the Liberals have really lost a lot of credibility and the NDP doesn't seem to be picking up the pieces.

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/millennials-nearly-twice-as-likely-to-vote-for-conservatives-over-liberals-new-survey-suggests/article_7875f9b4-c818-547e-bf68-0f443ba321dc.html

Congrats to Trudeau for making Canada the first anglo-country where millenials might vote to the right of boomers.

I think that has more to do with left has been in power longest here.  I have found globally millennials tend to be more anti-status quo while boomers more status quo and less right vs. left.  True in English speaking world has favoured left, but also Canada saw leftward swing earlier than others.  US is different in that they have strong racial divide and millennials are 40% non-white while boomers only 15%.  Amongst whites I believe age divide much smaller and if you throw in education disappears as higher Democrat support amongst millennials more due to fact more likely to have a college degree.  Pretty sure Trump won white millennials without a college degree.

UK is probably due to austerity a decade ago as theirs was quite extreme and that really hurt support with millennials.  If Poilievre tries to implement austerity at level David Cameron did, probably similar thing happens in Canada.  Luckily for him, deficit is only around 1-2% of GDP, not 10% like it was in UK so probably not needed unless takes supply side approach of massive unfunded tax cuts like Liz Truss did.

Obama was also the most popular leader among millennials in any Anglo nation as well . Unlike with Trudeau he remained popular with millennial voters throughout his term

Yeah like Miles said it's partially because Obama is a better politician than Trudeau, but it's also because Canadian voters tend to be more fickle than American ones. Partisanship is more "cyclical" up here, it's less etched in stone. It's been a consistent pattern since the Mulroney era that governments only get 10ish years before voters decide it's over for them, and at that point it almost doesn't matter who the opposition is. Although if Poilievre maintains the CPC's current lead into the next election, it would definitely be a historically significant moment for the conservative movement.

Mulroney's 1984 landslide is out of reach for Poilievre, unless the Liberals really, truly, emphatically blow it over the next two years, beyond any Tory's wildest dreams - but the Mulroney landslide was never a sustainable win for the conservative movement and brand, because there were too many competing interests involved. He needed the votes of Quebec nationalists, who for the most part weren't even conservatives, but were single-issue PCs who wanted constitutional reform. When that fell through, so did the Mulroney coalition. With Poilievre, his coalition seems a genuinely conservative one, like Harper's, and of course Harper only got a majority on his fourth shot. Poilievre may do it on his first, the way things are shaping up.

As for young voters, I think some of it definitely is young people being more rebellious and anxious for "change", but even against unpopular Liberal governments, you rarely see Conservatives actually winning the youth vote. Doug Ford never reached these heights with 18-35s despite an even more unpopular Liberal government in Ontario that had been around even longer. There's certainly some kind of change around the corner, and I think it comes down to pocketbook issues, where I think the Liberals have really lost a lot of credibility and the NDP doesn't seem to be picking up the pieces.

1. That’s fair though the same is true here as well , as there has only been one time Since 1952 where a party has been in the WH for more than 8 years at a time(GOP 1981-93).

2. It’s possible Polievre may be able to win a similar sort of landslide outside Quebec that Mulroney did but once you include Quebec , yeah I agree that it’s not really possible .

3. A huge reason I think Tories are doing better with young voters right now is also because of NDP’s unofficial coalition with the liberals . Doing so also gave them some of the blame in what has happened along with the liberals and the Tories were the only party that could benefit from that .

[Upper Canada Tory]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/millennials-nearly-twice-as-likely-to-vote-for-conservatives-over-liberals-new-survey-suggests/article_7875f9b4-c818-547e-bf68-0f443ba321dc.html

Congrats to Trudeau for making Canada the first anglo-country where millenials might vote to the right of boomers.

I think that has more to do with left has been in power longest here.  I have found globally millennials tend to be more anti-status quo while boomers more status quo and less right vs. left.  True in English speaking world has favoured left, but also Canada saw leftward swing earlier than others.  US is different in that they have strong racial divide and millennials are 40% non-white while boomers only 15%.  Amongst whites I believe age divide much smaller and if you throw in education disappears as higher Democrat support amongst millennials more due to fact more likely to have a college degree.  Pretty sure Trump won white millennials without a college degree.

UK is probably due to austerity a decade ago as theirs was quite extreme and that really hurt support with millennials.  If Poilievre tries to implement austerity at level David Cameron did, probably similar thing happens in Canada.  Luckily for him, deficit is only around 1-2% of GDP, not 10% like it was in UK so probably not needed unless takes supply side approach of massive unfunded tax cuts like Liz Truss did.

Obama was also the most popular leader among millennials in any Anglo nation as well . Unlike with Trudeau he remained popular with millennial voters throughout his term

Yeah like Miles said it's partially because Obama is a better politician than Trudeau, but it's also because Canadian voters tend to be more fickle than American ones. Partisanship is more "cyclical" up here, it's less etched in stone. It's been a consistent pattern since the Mulroney era that governments only get 10ish years before voters decide it's over for them, and at that point it almost doesn't matter who the opposition is. Although if Poilievre maintains the CPC's current lead into the next election, it would definitely be a historically significant moment for the conservative movement.

Mulroney's 1984 landslide is out of reach for Poilievre, unless the Liberals really, truly, emphatically blow it over the next two years, beyond any Tory's wildest dreams - but the Mulroney landslide was never a sustainable win for the conservative movement and brand, because there were too many competing interests involved. He needed the votes of Quebec nationalists, who for the most part weren't even conservatives, but were single-issue PCs who wanted constitutional reform. When that fell through, so did the Mulroney coalition. With Poilievre, his coalition seems a genuinely conservative one, like Harper's, and of course Harper only got a majority on his fourth shot. Poilievre may do it on his first, the way things are shaping up.

As for young voters, I think some of it definitely is young people being more rebellious and anxious for "change", but even against unpopular Liberal governments, you rarely see Conservatives actually winning the youth vote. Doug Ford never reached these heights with 18-35s despite an even more unpopular Liberal government in Ontario that had been around even longer. There's certainly some kind of change around the corner, and I think it comes down to pocketbook issues, where I think the Liberals have really lost a lot of credibility and the NDP doesn't seem to be picking up the pieces.

1. That’s fair though the same is true here as well , as there has only been one time Since 1952 where a party has been in the WH for more than 8 years at a time(GOP 1981-93).

2. It’s possible Polievre may be able to win a similar sort of landslide outside Quebec that Mulroney did but once you include Quebec , yeah I agree that it’s not really possible .

3. A huge reason I think Tories are doing better with young voters right now is also because of NDP’s unofficial coalition with the liberals . Doing so also gave them some of the blame in what has happened along with the liberals and the Tories were the only party that could benefit from that .

I think what Laddicus meant with regards to partisanship is not only after how long people tend to toss out governments, but that party loyalty as a whole is weaker in Canada than in the United States. If you look at voters in the different regions of Canada, they have a surprisingly high willingness to switch the party they vote for every few years.

[SnowLabrador]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

[SnowLabrador]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

The Trucker Protest was astroturfed by the US' right-wing. Canada does not have lunatics with a serious chance of getting political power, at least not like the Republicans.

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

The Trucker Protest was astroturfed by the US' right-wing. Canada does not have lunatics with a serious chance of getting political power, at least not like the Republicans.

The Conservative Party is leading the polls by double digits and their leader is someone who supported the Trucker Protest.

[Upper Canada Tory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

The Trucker Protest was astroturfed by the US' right-wing. Canada does not have lunatics with a serious chance of getting political power, at least not like the Republicans.

The Conservative Party is leading the polls by double digits and their leader is someone who supported the Trucker Protest.

Yeah, but keep in mind that this has nothing to do with the trucker protest but everything to do with cost of living issues. Canadian right wing populists usually become more moderate when they're in power, as opposed to American right wing populists. Most Canadians were not in favour of the trucker protest but also didn't really care enough for it to affect their vote.

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

The Trucker Protest was astroturfed by the US' right-wing. Canada does not have lunatics with a serious chance of getting political power, at least not like the Republicans.

The Conservative Party is leading the polls by double digits and their leader is someone who supported the Trucker Protest.

Yeah, but keep in mind that this has nothing to do with the trucker protest but everything to do with cost of living issues. Canadian right wing populists usually become more moderate when they're in power, as opposed to American right wing populists. Most Canadians were not in favour of the trucker protest but also didn't really care enough for it to affect their vote.

So do American right wing populists . Trump governed far more like a conventional GOPer than his 2016 campaign suggested

[Upper Canada Tory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

The Trucker Protest was astroturfed by the US' right-wing. Canada does not have lunatics with a serious chance of getting political power, at least not like the Republicans.

The Conservative Party is leading the polls by double digits and their leader is someone who supported the Trucker Protest.

Yeah, but keep in mind that this has nothing to do with the trucker protest but everything to do with cost of living issues. Canadian right wing populists usually become more moderate when they're in power, as opposed to American right wing populists. Most Canadians were not in favour of the trucker protest but also didn't really care enough for it to affect their vote.

So do American right wing populists . Trump governed far more like a conventional GOPer than his 2016 campaign suggested

I don't know. Compare someone who ran as an RW populist in the USA (Trump) vs someone who ran as an RW populist in Canada (Doug Ford), Ford has turned out to be way more moderate in terms of governance.

[Upper Canada Tory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Also, this sounds like virtue signalling rhetoric from the Liberal government. What would such a plan even look like? I don't like the policies of some governors and politicians in the US but that doesn't mean the US will go authoritarian tomorrow?

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

The Trucker Protest was astroturfed by the US' right-wing. Canada does not have lunatics with a serious chance of getting political power, at least not like the Republicans.

The Conservative Party is leading the polls by double digits and their leader is someone who supported the Trucker Protest.

Yeah, but keep in mind that this has nothing to do with the trucker protest but everything to do with cost of living issues. Canadian right wing populists usually become more moderate when they're in power, as opposed to American right wing populists. Most Canadians were not in favour of the trucker protest but also didn't really care enough for it to affect their vote.

So do American right wing populists . Trump governed far more like a conventional GOPer than his 2016 campaign suggested

I don't know. Compare someone who ran as an RW populist in the USA (Trump) vs someone who ran as an RW populist in Canada (Doug Ford), Ford has turned out to be way more moderate in terms of governance.

Well by right wing populist I meant more Polievre and Smith than Ford . Ford imo is more similar to Boris Johnson while Polievre and Smith are more similar to American conservatives (just like Harper was and western conservatives are in general)

Id say :

Your Western Conservatives are more like the GOP and the Eastern ones are more like the UK Tories

[Upper Canada Tory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

The Trucker Protest was astroturfed by the US' right-wing. Canada does not have lunatics with a serious chance of getting political power, at least not like the Republicans.

The Conservative Party is leading the polls by double digits and their leader is someone who supported the Trucker Protest.

Yeah, but keep in mind that this has nothing to do with the trucker protest but everything to do with cost of living issues. Canadian right wing populists usually become more moderate when they're in power, as opposed to American right wing populists. Most Canadians were not in favour of the trucker protest but also didn't really care enough for it to affect their vote.

So do American right wing populists . Trump governed far more like a conventional GOPer than his 2016 campaign suggested

I don't know. Compare someone who ran as an RW populist in the USA (Trump) vs someone who ran as an RW populist in Canada (Doug Ford), Ford has turned out to be way more moderate in terms of governance.

Well by right wing populist I meant more Polievre and Smith than Ford . Ford imo is more similar to Boris Johnson while Polievre and Smith are more similar to American conservatives (just like Harper was and western conservatives are in general)

Id say :

Your Western Conservatives are more like the GOP and the Eastern ones are more like the UK Tories

Harper is not the best example because he both campaigned and governed as a moderate. Poilievre and Smith are more like American Conservatives (though the former hasn't governed yet) but Harper is very debatable. Harper was not a populist in terms of his style nor his policies nor was he 'our version of Bush' is as often claimed.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

The Trucker Protest was astroturfed by the US' right-wing. Canada does not have lunatics with a serious chance of getting political power, at least not like the Republicans.

The Conservative Party is leading the polls by double digits and their leader is someone who supported the Trucker Protest.

Yeah, but keep in mind that this has nothing to do with the trucker protest but everything to do with cost of living issues. Canadian right wing populists usually become more moderate when they're in power, as opposed to American right wing populists. Most Canadians were not in favour of the trucker protest but also didn't really care enough for it to affect their vote.

So do American right wing populists . Trump governed far more like a conventional GOPer than his 2016 campaign suggested

I don't know. Compare someone who ran as an RW populist in the USA (Trump) vs someone who ran as an RW populist in Canada (Doug Ford), Ford has turned out to be way more moderate in terms of governance.

Well by right wing populist I meant more Polievre and Smith than Ford . Ford imo is more similar to Boris Johnson while Polievre and Smith are more similar to American conservatives (just like Harper was and western conservatives are in general)

Id say :

Your Western Conservatives are more like the GOP and the Eastern ones are more like the UK Tories

Harper is not the best example because he both campaigned and governed as a moderate. Poilievre and Smith are more like American Conservatives (though the former hasn't governed yet) but Harper is very debatable. Harper was not a populist in terms of his style nor his policies nor was he 'our version of Bush' is as often claimed.

I think there's plenty of evidence that Harper was every bit a blue-blooded conservative as Poilievre is. One of the things he used to get attacked for early in his term as leader and PM was the controversial statements he made during his time as a right-wing think tank type guy, especially regarding Canada's political systems. He moderated his image as leader, as Poilievre is trying to do and seemingly succeeding at this specific point, but he was basically forced to govern as a moderate in his first five years in power, since he was in a unique position of being a centre-right prime minister with a centre-left parliament. Even Joe Clark theoretically had the SoCreds. Every major vote was a potential writ drop, so the Tories governed very surgically, always trying to hit a sweet spot where they could somehow get support. This mentality continued into the majority, they were coming up with all sorts of tax credits because they didn't seem to know what else to offer. His post-PM career doesn't suggest being much of a moderate either, although he's a "pre-Trump" conservative, so his rhetoric is less heated than a post-Trump conservative like Pierre. But the beliefs seem to be largely the same, deep down.

[Benjamin Frank]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

Poilievre was elected leader of the Conservative Party with 70% of their votes before the terrorist occupation of Ottawa. Poilievre has also taken two positions on his backing of these terrorists. To Conservative partisans he proudly states his support and even sometimes what he did to support them, to Canadians in general though he denies any involvement and the he essentially only supported them in principal but opposed any of the lawlessness.

[jaichind]

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/you-should-be-worried-pollster-warns-liberal-mps-as-pierre-poilievre-s-conservatives-pull-further/article_969b7904-f47e-5cc4-88c7-5e202ae55e0b.html

Latest Abacus Data poll has CPC  with a 15 point lead

[super6646]

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/you-should-be-worried-pollster-warns-liberal-mps-as-pierre-poilievre-s-conservatives-pull-further/article_969b7904-f47e-5cc4-88c7-5e202ae55e0b.html

Latest Abacus Data poll has CPC  with a 15 point lead

Libs losing pretty much every demographic lol. That 18-29 spread is stunning

[Neo-Malthusian Misanthrope]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

Poilievre was elected leader of the Conservative Party with 70% of their votes before the terrorist occupation of Ottawa. Poilievre has also taken two positions on his backing of these terrorists. To Conservative partisans he proudly states his support and even sometimes what he did to support them, to Canadians in general though he denies any involvement and the he essentially only supported them in principal but opposed any of the lawlessness.

PP was elected leader after the convoy/occupation (O'Toole was turfed more or less due to his opposition to it) but the rest stands. I may be sympathetic to the centre-right and want action on cost of living and housing, but I'll find it hard to support a party led by a guy who chose to hold a meet and greet with Diagolon Nazis when he could have attended a Stanley Cup parade at the same time in the same city, no matter how nice his wife says he is.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

Poilievre was elected leader of the Conservative Party with 70% of their votes before the terrorist occupation of Ottawa. Poilievre has also taken two positions on his backing of these terrorists. To Conservative partisans he proudly states his support and even sometimes what he did to support them, to Canadians in general though he denies any involvement and the he essentially only supported them in principal but opposed any of the lawlessness.

PP was elected leader after the convoy/occupation (O'Toole was turfed more or less due to his opposition to it) but the rest stands. I may be sympathetic to the centre-right and want action on cost of living and housing, but I'll find it hard to support a party led by a guy who chose to hold a meet and greet with Diagolon Nazis when he could have attended a Stanley Cup parade at the same time in the same city, no matter how nice his wife says he is.

I will throw my vote away to the NDP.

It’s too bad they’re not talking more about cutting the red tape to get permits approved. This crisis will take the kitchen sink.

[Upper Canada Tory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

Poilievre was elected leader of the Conservative Party with 70% of their votes before the terrorist occupation of Ottawa. Poilievre has also taken two positions on his backing of these terrorists. To Conservative partisans he proudly states his support and even sometimes what he did to support them, to Canadians in general though he denies any involvement and the he essentially only supported them in principal but opposed any of the lawlessness.

PP was elected leader after the convoy/occupation (O'Toole was turfed more or less due to his opposition to it) but the rest stands. I may be sympathetic to the centre-right and want action on cost of living and housing, but I'll find it hard to support a party led by a guy who chose to hold a meet and greet with Diagolon Nazis when he could have attended a Stanley Cup parade at the same time in the same city, no matter how nice his wife says he is.

It is a very hyperbolic overstatement to say O'Toole was removed because of his lack of support of the convoy. The CPC typically removes their leader after poor election performances (as what happened with Scheer in 2019).

I think people who associate Poilievre's leadership with the convoy horribly miss the point. The reason Poilievre is popular isn't because of the convoy, not amongst the Tory base nor amongst voters outside the Tory base. He's popular because of his focus and messaging on the cost of living crisis. Roman Baber and Leslyn Lewis were also in favour of the convoy - but they didn't win the leadership race!

[Upper Canada Tory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

The Trucker Protest was astroturfed by the US' right-wing. Canada does not have lunatics with a serious chance of getting political power, at least not like the Republicans.

The Conservative Party is leading the polls by double digits and their leader is someone who supported the Trucker Protest.

Yeah, but keep in mind that this has nothing to do with the trucker protest but everything to do with cost of living issues. Canadian right wing populists usually become more moderate when they're in power, as opposed to American right wing populists. Most Canadians were not in favour of the trucker protest but also didn't really care enough for it to affect their vote.

So do American right wing populists . Trump governed far more like a conventional GOPer than his 2016 campaign suggested

I don't know. Compare someone who ran as an RW populist in the USA (Trump) vs someone who ran as an RW populist in Canada (Doug Ford), Ford has turned out to be way more moderate in terms of governance.

Well by right wing populist I meant more Polievre and Smith than Ford . Ford imo is more similar to Boris Johnson while Polievre and Smith are more similar to American conservatives (just like Harper was and western conservatives are in general)

Id say :

Your Western Conservatives are more like the GOP and the Eastern ones are more like the UK Tories

Harper is not the best example because he both campaigned and governed as a moderate. Poilievre and Smith are more like American Conservatives (though the former hasn't governed yet) but Harper is very debatable. Harper was not a populist in terms of his style nor his policies nor was he 'our version of Bush' is as often claimed.

I think there's plenty of evidence that Harper was every bit a blue-blooded conservative as Poilievre is. One of the things he used to get attacked for early in his term as leader and PM was the controversial statements he made during his time as a right-wing think tank type guy, especially regarding Canada's political systems. He moderated his image as leader, as Poilievre is trying to do and seemingly succeeding at this specific point, but he was basically forced to govern as a moderate in his first five years in power, since he was in a unique position of being a centre-right prime minister with a centre-left parliament. Even Joe Clark theoretically had the SoCreds. Every major vote was a potential writ drop, so the Tories governed very surgically, always trying to hit a sweet spot where they could somehow get support. This mentality continued into the majority, they were coming up with all sorts of tax credits because they didn't seem to know what else to offer. His post-PM career doesn't suggest being much of a moderate either, although he's a "pre-Trump" conservative, so his rhetoric is less heated than a post-Trump conservative like Pierre. But the beliefs seem to be largely the same, deep down.

To be clear, I'm not implying Harper was not a conservative (he definitely was), but I'm just saying he is not as much of an ideological purist as Poilievre.

This is an interesting debate, because there are several ways we can use to compare the two in this regard - either by their record long ago as Reformers, how they campaigned during elections and how they governed (though the latter is not possible for Poilievre as he has not governed yet).

In terms of how they campaigned during elections, I find one major philosophical difference between Harper and Poilievre. Harper was mainly focused on making government agencies more accountable, transparent, fiscally responsible and less bureaucratic, but not necessarily privatizing or downsizing the government agency outright. On the other hand, Poilievre is very hostile to government structures - he wants to privatize the CBC, is very critical of the Bank of Canada, has promoted bitcoin, even if only as a campaign tactic in poor taste. In this regard, Poilievre is definitely much more of an ideological purist than Harper - Harper wouldn't have advocated for any of those things.

Regarding their record as Reform Party/Canadian Alliance members, yes Harper was chastised for his past controversial statements, but he was actually relatively moderate for a Reform MP. He frequently broke ranks with his party, like being the only Reform MP to vote in favour a Canadian Firearms Registry or, at a policy convention, was one of the few Reform delegates to vote against restricting the definition of marriage to being between a man and a woman. Harper also opposed Manning's propensity toward populism, which is very in character with how he governed. On the other hand, Poilievre is a natural populist and has been known to take a more hardline stance on most issues.

I think Harper is far less of an ideologue than Poilievre is.

[Benjamin Frank]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

Poilievre was elected leader of the Conservative Party with 70% of their votes before the terrorist occupation of Ottawa. Poilievre has also taken two positions on his backing of these terrorists. To Conservative partisans he proudly states his support and even sometimes what he did to support them, to Canadians in general though he denies any involvement and the he essentially only supported them in principal but opposed any of the lawlessness.

PP was elected leader after the convoy/occupation (O'Toole was turfed more or less due to his opposition to it) but the rest stands. I may be sympathetic to the centre-right and want action on cost of living and housing, but I'll find it hard to support a party led by a guy who chose to hold a meet and greet with Diagolon Nazis when he could have attended a Stanley Cup parade at the same time in the same city, no matter how nice his wife says he is.

It is a very hyperbolic overstatement to say O'Toole was removed because of his lack of support of the convoy. The CPC typically removes their leader after poor election performances (as what happened with Scheer in 2019).

I think people who associate Poilievre's leadership with the convoy horribly miss the point. The reason Poilievre is popular isn't because of the convoy, not amongst the Tory base nor amongst voters outside the Tory base. He's popular because of his focus and messaging on the cost of living crisis. Roman Baber and Leslyn Lewis were also in favour of the convoy - but they didn't win the leadership race!

Poilievre's support in the Conservative Party goes back before that. He nearly ran for the leadership in 2019 and would have been a frontrunner had he run. I think his support with Conservatives is mainly due to his 'attack dog' abilities.