Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[Benjamin Frank]

PEI Liberal Leadership

The filing deadline has passed and Sharon Cameron was the only person who entered the race. From wiki:

Sharon Cameron served as a deputy minister during the governments of Robert Ghiz and Wade MacLauchlan, first at the Department of Social Services and Seniors (2010–2015) and then at the Department of Workforce and Advanced Learning (2015–2019). Additionally, she served as a special advisor to MacLauchlan on social policy, and is the former CEO of the Workers Compensation Board. In 2021, Cameron sought the Liberal nomination in Cornwall-Meadowbank following the resignation of Heath MacDonald; Cameron lost the nomination to Jane MacIsaac, who in turn lost the by-election to Progressive Conservative candidate Mark McLane

[Benjamin Frank]

Latest episode of The Backbench with Mattea Roach.

https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/49-guns-and-wild-roses/

What is going on in the Wild Rose Country? Mattea Roach is joined by experts Catherine Griwkowksy, Emilie Nicolas, and David Moscrop. Together they unpack the implications of Alberta’s new premier's calls for more sovereignty and the possible unravelling of our beloved Canadian federalism. This week we also get into Canada’s complicated diplomatic response to the Iranian protests.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Latest episode of The Backbench with Mattea Roach.

https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/49-guns-and-wild-roses/

What is going on in the Wild Rose Country? Mattea Roach is joined by experts Catherine Griwkowksy, Emilie Nicolas, and David Moscrop. Together they unpack the implications of Alberta’s new premier's calls for more sovereignty and the possible unravelling of our beloved Canadian federalism. This week we also get into Canada’s complicated diplomatic response to the Iranian protests.

Thanks for the link.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

The 1990s called. They want their Western alienation back!

[Leading Political Consultant Ma Anand Sheela]

https://twitter.com/richardzussman/status/1582959543843450880?t=QTR8lY9TlwxkgcGe...
Contrary to breathless Twitter predictions, I doubt anyone who wasn't already likely to vote Green over NDP is going to take up Appadurai (who couldn't even win a seat in Vancouver against a housing speculator) as a cause célèbre, but the chaotic and panicky handling of this still bodes poorly for the Eby premiership.

[NewYorkExpress]

https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1583502468839018496

https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1583502471238160384

[Benjamin Frank]

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podcasts/209-front-burner/episode/15943470-who-wins-who-loses-in-the-fight-against-inflation

Jim Stanford, a former union economist (as opposed to a labour economist), interviewed, as the link says on the winners and losers against inflation but also on alternatives to raising interest rates to fighting inflation.

Not really surprising what he says. I've made a couple similar points on how to reduce inflation without directly raising the Bank rate (and, in turn, private bank interest rates)
1.Increase the thresholds to qualify for mortgages: higher downpayments, tougher stress tests...

2.I've mentioned raising taxes on those with the most money. Oddly he doesn't mention that or an 'excess profits tax' but he does mention a modified form of price controls going forward, i.e governments regulating prices that it legally can in Canada (rent controls, utilities and even gasoline prices, though this would require coordination from both the provincial and federal government.)

I was wondering though if he'd make a third recommendation, and no, he did not: that of breaking up defacto Canadian monopoly cartels such as Nixon/Ford/Carter did when they deregulated the airlines and trucking industries to increase competition.  There are large monopoly cartels in Canada when it comes to dairy and poultry to phone providers and even the airlines, both of which must be majority Canadian owned, as if it makes a difference that the owner is a Canadian robber baron rather than an American robber baron (this is something that the NDP has never explained: Canadian CEOs are greedy...but we must protect them from greedy U.S CEOs!) While it would still take time for foreign companies in these sectors to set up in Canada, I think many of them have the capital to start right away if given the opportunity.

First, dairy and poultry prices could come down immediately by allowing foreign competition, but they could also be lowered over a year or so by allowing more Canadian competition (dairy and poultry are both subject to quota regulations which are referred to as 'supply management, aka a monopoly cartel.)

So, you might say that there are already worker shortages limiting more competition. Jim Stanford implicitly mentions this when he says that higher interest rates can pervesely make it more difficult to reduce inflation by reducing investment into research and development.

However, with these things taken together, I think they more or less work. When less people buy homes as a result, for instance, of increasing downpayments to get a mortgage, they also don't buy the things that go into homes, which is a major reason why higher interest rates reduce inflation. To be sure, employees aren't interchangeable, but as there are less workers employed in these sectors related to housing, it would free up workers to join these newly competitive sectors like the cell phone market and dairy/poultry.

That would lead to a spiral of lower prices. Win-win.

However, one reason I think I'm not surprised Jim Stanford didn't bring up the idea of breaking up Canadian monopoly cartels in at least dairy and poultry (it wouldn't surprise me if he's opposed to opening up Canada to more foreign competition) is that there seems to be a mainstream media embargo on mentioning any such thing. I haven't heard a single person discuss this since Maxime Bernier in 2019 more or less.

[DabbingSanta]

This handgun ban is absolutely useless.  The restrictions in place to get one were already draconian and basically limited handgun ownership to people who shoot for recreation and special security purposes.  The reality is that this 'ban' will do nothing to stop rising rates of violent crime in Canada.

[Aurelius]

Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of the USA... oh wait.

I continue to be surprised that Canadians are stupid enough to keep lapping this crap up. I generally refrain from calling voters stupid but I have to make an exception for this one country.

[Benjamin Frank]

Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of the USA... oh wait.

I continue to be surprised that Canadians are stupid enough to keep lapping this crap up. I generally refrain from calling voters stupid but I have to make an exception for this one country.

Americans, especially a Republican, the party of stupid, referring to Canadians as 'stupid' is beyond stupid.

As imperfect as Justin Trudeau certainly is, there isn't a single Rethug remaining who comes even close.

[Aurelius]

Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of the USA... oh wait.

I continue to be surprised that Canadians are stupid enough to keep lapping this crap up. I generally refrain from calling voters stupid but I have to make an exception for this one country.

Americans, especially a Republican, the party of stupid, referring to Canadians as 'stupid' is beyond stupid.

As imperfect as Justin Trudeau certainly is, there isn't a single Rethug remaining who comes even close.

Canada is an unserious country led by unserious and exceptionally dim people whose main priority is patting themselves on the back for not being America. I will not stop pointing this out.

[Benjamin Frank]

Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of the USA... oh wait.

I continue to be surprised that Canadians are stupid enough to keep lapping this crap up. I generally refrain from calling voters stupid but I have to make an exception for this one country.

Americans, especially a Republican, the party of stupid, referring to Canadians as 'stupid' is beyond stupid.

As imperfect as Justin Trudeau certainly is, there isn't a single Rethug remaining who comes even close.

Canada is an unserious country led by unserious and exceptionally dim people whose main priority is patting themselves on the back for not being America. I will not stop pointing this out.

If Canada votes for a Prime Minister as unserious as Donald Trump, whom your evil Rethug Party supported then get back to me, until then, you have nothing.

[Aurelius]

Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of the USA... oh wait.

I continue to be surprised that Canadians are stupid enough to keep lapping this crap up. I generally refrain from calling voters stupid but I have to make an exception for this one country.

Americans, especially a Republican, the party of stupid, referring to Canadians as 'stupid' is beyond stupid.

As imperfect as Justin Trudeau certainly is, there isn't a single Rethug remaining who comes even close.

Canada is an unserious country led by unserious and exceptionally dim people whose main priority is patting themselves on the back for not being America. I will not stop pointing this out.

You are a pro-death covidiot who lies claiming to be wonderful and pro-life.  You are as personally horrible as the typical rethug.

This is high praise. Thank you!

[Benjamin Frank]

Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of the USA... oh wait.

I continue to be surprised that Canadians are stupid enough to keep lapping this crap up. I generally refrain from calling voters stupid but I have to make an exception for this one country.

Americans, especially a Republican, the party of stupid, referring to Canadians as 'stupid' is beyond stupid.

As imperfect as Justin Trudeau certainly is, there isn't a single Rethug remaining who comes even close.

Canada is an unserious country led by unserious and exceptionally dim people whose main priority is patting themselves on the back for not being America. I will not stop pointing this out.

You are a pro-death covidiot who lies claiming to be wonderful and pro-life.  You are as personally horrible as the typical rethug.

This is high praise. Thank you!

Did you support Donald Trump?

[DabbingSanta]

Did you support Donald Trump?

I will love to see your reaction when Pierre Poilievre, the French Trump, wins in a landslide, which he certainly will provided there isn't massive voter fraud.  We will Make Canada Great Again! 

[CumbrianLefty]

Did you support Donald Trump?

I will love to see your reaction when Pierre Poilievre, the French Trump, wins in a landslide, which he certainly will provided there isn't massive voter fraud.  We will Make Canada Great Again! 

I assume this is facetious, but with your ilk one never knows

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Lmao. I hope y'all got the "name calling strangers on the internet" thing out of your system now.

I think Trudeau's gun policies are at best, ineffective, and at worst, distracting from serious issues by pointing to America, a classic (and I would argue dumb) Canadian tradition. That said, I don't think it's fair to call Canadians stupid for voting with their emotions, because literally everyone does that to some extent. Canadians do it, Americans do it, conservatives do it, progressives do it, I do it, you do it and so on. So Trudeau's probably playing smart politics here, and calling people dumb for buying it isn't likely to make them take seriously the other side of the argument.

[Benjamin Frank]

Did you support Donald Trump?

I will love to see your reaction when Pierre Poilievre, the French Trump, wins in a landslide, which he certainly will provided there isn't massive voter fraud.  We will Make Canada Great Again!  

In so far as the policies Poilievre has called for are very similar or the same as the disastrous policies of Liz Truss (it's hard to pin Poilievre down to specifics), what he'd do is make Canada the sick man of North America.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Did you support Donald Trump?

I will love to see your reaction when Pierre Poilievre, the French Trump, wins in a landslide, which he certainly will provided there isn't massive voter fraud.  We will Make Canada Great Again!  

In so far as the policies Poilievre has called for are very similar or the same as the disastrous policies of Liz Truss (it's hard to pin Poilievre down to specifics), what he'd do is make Canada the sick man of North America.

You can project whatever you like unto him, but neither Poilievre nor his caucus have endorsed the kind of reckless tax policies that Liz Truss implemented. They've called for a freeze on hiking CPP/EI premiums, which is not a tax cut. The one tax cut they've proposed is the carbon tax - cutting the similar gas tax (which the UK did months before Truss, as did the US) didn't see the same inflationary impact, because fuel is a mostly inelastic good.

Another problem with Trussism was that she slashed taxes massively without any attempt to even control government spending, which is why the markets reacted the way they did. Poilievre has been pretty straightforward about wanting to cap government spending, a policy that even the Liberals are starting to lean into based on Freeland's recent statements.

So again, project all you like, I have no doubt that every conservative will be compared to Liz Truss for the next few years - but I think your analysis is either misunderstanding what happened in England or ignoring what Poilievre has proposed so far.

[Benjamin Frank]

Did you support Donald Trump?

I will love to see your reaction when Pierre Poilievre, the French Trump, wins in a landslide, which he certainly will provided there isn't massive voter fraud.  We will Make Canada Great Again!  

In so far as the policies Poilievre has called for are very similar or the same as the disastrous policies of Liz Truss (it's hard to pin Poilievre down to specifics), what he'd do is make Canada the sick man of North America.

You can project whatever you like unto him, but neither Poilievre nor his caucus have endorsed the kind of reckless tax policies that Liz Truss implemented. They've called for a freeze on hiking CPP/EI premiums, which is not a tax cut. The one tax cut they've proposed is the carbon tax - cutting the similar gas tax (which the UK did months before Truss, as did the US) didn't see the same inflationary impact, because fuel is a mostly inelastic good.

Another problem with Trussism was that she slashed taxes massively without any attempt to even control government spending, which is why the markets reacted the way they did. Poilievre has been pretty straightforward about wanting to cap government spending, a policy that even the Liberals are starting to lean into based on Freeland's recent statements.

So again, project all you like, I have no doubt that every conservative will be compared to Liz Truss for the next few years - but I think your analysis is either misunderstanding what happened in England or ignoring what Poilievre has proposed so far.

That's not really accurate. While it is the case that Poilievre has only mentioned the two taxes since becoming leader, when running for leader he made many vague comments about boosting growth with large tax cuts, and made other vague comments about cutting spending.

From a commentary in the Toronto Star written by union economist Jim Stanford:

"Worse, Poilievre is not clear on what he’d do about inflation. He promises to slash the deficit, but doesn’t say how. Simultaneously he emphasizes broad tax cuts, again without specifics. That not only contradicts the deficit-reduction goal, but would also add to the inflation he decries."

https://www.thestar.com/business/opinion/2022/09/17/pierre-poilievres-hodgepodge-of-policies-are-a-dangerous-way-to-run-an-economy.html

Running for the leadership Poilievre said: “we must simplify and cut taxes”

Also: "He also pledged his government would lower inflation by cutting government spending, and to repeal the federal carbon tax."

And: "where he promised that a future government of his would lessen Canada’s dependence on foreign food imports"

Especially when it comes to food, global warming is already one of the biggest cost drivers, and 'autarky' (the term used in the article) in food production can also only result in higher prices.

https://www.nelsonstar.com/news/tory-leadership-hopeful-promises-economic-autonomy-housing-during-b-c-stop/

And:
He has promised to reform Canada’s tax system with cuts to income and payroll taxes, and wants to scrap the Liberals’ price on carbon.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/12/canada-conservative-leader-poilievre-00056205

From University of Victoria economics professor Ralph W. Huenemann writing in the Victoria Times-Columnist:
So, a politician who is a true disciple of Friedman must advocate reductions in government programs in parallel with any proposed tax cuts. It remains to be seen what Poilievre proposes in specific government reductions.

Since Poilievre has made these comments, it's entirely fair to criticize him for promoting similar policies as Liz Truss, unless and until he states specifics.

Promoting in general the notion of 'Alberta sovereignty' but then claiming 'you can't criticize this because the legislation hasn't even been written' was what Danielle Smith got away with. Nobody in their right mind would let Poilievre get away with the same thing.

When it comes to the carbon tax being the Conservative scapegoat for all of Canada's problems, that's not a surprise since the Conservatives are a wholly owned subsidiary of the Canadian fossil fuel sector. While obviously global warming is a world wide issue, if Poilievre is claiming that the choice is between paying a carbon tax or paying nothing and not having any costs due to global warming, he is lying. If Poilievre is claiming that there are less expensive ways to address global warming other than the carbon tax, he is likely lying as well, but well, you know, we'd all love to hear the plan.

Also from the article in the Times Columnist:
Friedman on air pollution: Friedman acknowledged openly that under capitalism not all markets work well and that the market for unpolluted air is a clear example of this market failure.

In Price Theory, one of Friedman’s major publications (though full of intimidating mathematics and not much read by non-economists), Friedman argues that “if smoke from my chimney dirties your house, and it is not feasible for you to require me to compensate you for the cost imposed on you,” then the market has failed to do its job and “a command element” (government regulation) would have to be introduced to solve the problem.

https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/comment-poilievre-might-be-listening-to-the-wrong-economist-6008750

So, all in all, Poilievre is vague at best when it comes to his economic policies, but since he promises to cut taxes without stating what specifically and promises to cut spending without stating what specifically, he deservedly leaves himself open to criticism that he'd cause the same economic damage in Canada as caused by Liz Truss in the U.K. At worst, claiming to be against inflationary policies while also calling for more domestic production in agriculture to replace imports and for seemingly claiming that there are no costs to global warming, he is outright economically incoherent and/or illiterate.

[Benjamin Frank]

To add to a couple more points, though these aren't as certain as the points I made above due to the devil in the details:

1.When Poilievre and the Conservatives call for the elimination of the carbon tax increases, if not the carbon tax itself, there are a number, but not all provinces, that have carbon tax rebates. So, when claiming that carbon tax increases are tax increases, in a number of provinces for most people in those provinces, that is a lie.

2.I'm not as familiar with this in the U.K, but if Truss is anything like the trickle down adherents in the U.S, she would not have believed that it was necessary to have detailed spending cuts to finance the tax cuts because she'd argue that 'tax cuts pay for themselves.'  That does seem to be her and her supporters point of view, however, it also makes sense that she would not have wanted to have detailed spending cuts for political reasons given the look of supporting tax cuts for the wealthiest financed by spending cuts for the poorest and for services used by everybody else.

Either way, if she believes that tax cuts pay for themselves or if she believes that tax cuts for the wealthiest financed by service cuts to everybody else are a way to grow the economy that benefit everybody she is either economically incoherent and/or illiterate.

[DabbingSanta]

Medically assisted suicide is now a leading cause of death in Canada.  People have opted to die because they can't find affordable housing.  Next year, they plan to expand the qualifications to include mentally ill individuals. Crickets from the media.

Meanwhile our hospital system is on the brink of collapse, but we can't allow anything private to alleviate this stress because it will somehow "destroy public health".  So Canada's answer is to kill all the troubled people.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Just read an article about Doug Ford using the notwithstanding clause to defeat a union strike (). Is he actually doing that?

[Hatman 🍁]

Just read an article about Doug Ford using the notwithstanding clause to defeat a union strike (). Is he actually doing that?

Yeah, probably. We've entered a new era of Canadian politics where premiers feel emboldened to use it, as the belief that the electorate would punish them for doing so has disappeared.

[RogueBeaver]

Quebec news: Grit crisis escalates as Marie-Claude Nichols, expelled from caucus last week for declining to shadow Transport after being denied a deputy Speaker slot, refused to rejoin caucus after Anglade flip-flopped and asked her to return. Nichols said she wouldn't be used to save Anglade. Several members of the party executive had said Nichols' readmission was required for them to support Anglade at the review. As for QS and PQ, the Speaker ruled that no MNA can be seated without the oath and anyone who tries will be removed by the sergeant-at-arms. Both parties have not committed to that spectacle but keep insisting they won't take the oath. Negotiations on party status have started.