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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 7,066


« Reply #125 on: February 21, 2022, 08:33:26 AM »
« edited: February 21, 2022, 08:46:22 AM by John Ford Frank »

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1495586864656527365

Why dont we invoke the emergency act here and seize these thugs bank accounts and remove em by force but oh yah they're on the left so they can continue to make LA a sh**thole.

I don't support the Canadian government effectively engaging in civil asset forfeiture with the Emergencies Act. But you have to understand, a group of like 20 people standing in the middle of an intersection is not the same as thousands of people camping down for weeks in the middle of downtown Ottawa.

This is the reason why I've been going on about the U.S War on Drugs and 'Reefer Madness' and how the U.S in, in reality, an authoritarian country due to the war on drugs even though many Americans have bought the myth to believe otherwise.

This is what the DEA says on Civil Asset Forfeitures:

The Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) uses forfeiture to attack the financial structure of drug trafficking and money laundering groups worldwide, from the lowly courier carrying cash or drugs to the top levels of drug cartels. Forfeiture, particularly civil forfeiture (see below), is very effective against drug crimes committed for profit.

To seize property, DEA agents must have probable cause (the same legal standard needed to arrest someone) and obtain a warrant from a judge (with some exceptions).

https://www.dea.gov/operations/asset-forfeiture

I realize the Merle Haggard song 'Okie From Muskogee' is over 50 years old now, but it kind of perfectly captures the dissonance of the things illegal or, at least, shamed by convention in the U.S, and believing that you are 'being free.' Merle Haggard himself seems to have been taken up with this saying at times that the song was meant to honor small town decent living and at other times saying the song was meant as a parody.

We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee
We don't take our trips on LSD
We don't burn our draft cards down on Main Street
We like livin' right, and bein' free

We don't make a party out of lovin'
We like holdin' hands and pitchin' woo
We don't let our hair grow long and shaggy
Like the hippies out in San Francisco do

I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee,
A place where even squares can have a ball
We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse,
And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all

Leather boots are still in style for manly footwear
Beads and Roman sandals won't be seen
Football's still the roughest thing on campus
And the kids here still respect the college dean

And I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee
A place where even squares can have a ball.
We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse
And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all
And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all

In Muskogee, Oklahoma, USA.

To make this even more obvious, this is what counts as bein' free in the U.S:

1.Marijuana is illegal
2.LSD is illegal
3.Getting drafted to fight a war
4.No sex outside of marriage
5.No long hair
6.No sandals or other footwear other than accepted shoes and boots
7.Don't question authority ("the kids still respect the college dean")
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,066


« Reply #126 on: February 21, 2022, 09:10:42 AM »

Over the same weekend that the police in Ottawa cleared out the terrorist Ottawa occupiers using, it seems, the minimum force possible, this happened in Calgary, in the province of 'civil liberty loving' Premier Jason Kenney:

Sudanese community in mourning after man shot and killed by police in southeast Calgary

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-police-watchdog-asirt-calgary-police-shooting-1.6359062

The story says the man killed had a metal stick, was threatening people and otherwise behaving erratically and hit a police dog with his metal stick, but I find it hard to believe after how the police behaved in Ottawa that the man needed to be shot dead, and I also find it hard to believe his race didn't play a role in how he was treated versus how the terrorist occupiers were treated.
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,066


« Reply #127 on: February 21, 2022, 09:22:12 AM »

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1495586864656527365

Why dont we invoke the emergency act here and seize these thugs bank accounts and remove em by force but oh yah they're on the left so they can continue to make LA a sh**thole.

I don't support the Canadian government effectively engaging in civil asset forfeiture with the Emergencies Act. But you have to understand, a group of like 20 people standing in the middle of an intersection is not the same as thousands of people camping down for weeks in the middle of downtown Ottawa.

Even though M.P Mark Strahl clearly seems to have made the story up lied:


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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,066


« Reply #128 on: February 21, 2022, 09:27:10 AM »

Quote from: North Carolina Conservative link=topic=316424.msg8488485#msg8488485


Boomer hippies are so funny. I am unfree and it is literally 1984 because LSD is illegal. Sex outside of marriage is a federal crime. Long hair is banned.

Did you consider it a great imposition to your freedom to have to wear a mask during a pandemic?
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,066


« Reply #129 on: February 21, 2022, 09:31:59 AM »

Also, respecting a college dean is hardly not questioning authority. Especially in the context of the 1960s and protestors at universities like Berkeley refusing to comply with school norms.

It was part of the idea of respecting authority, and it's you who have misinterpreted the song - marijuana, LSD and burning draft cards were not a matter of personal choice, but were/are illegal.

The rest is part of the debate over the song: how much of it was personal choice and how much of it was forced social conformity?
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,066


« Reply #130 on: February 21, 2022, 09:32:56 AM »

Quote from: North Carolina Conservative link=topic=316424.msg8488485#msg8488485


Boomer hippies are so funny. I am unfree and it is literally 1984 because LSD is illegal. Sex outside of marriage is a federal crime. Long hair is banned.

Did you consider it a great imposition to your freedom to have to wear a mask during a pandemic?

I certainly didn't like it.

But, you don't have a problem with LSD or other drugs being illegal?
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,066


« Reply #131 on: February 21, 2022, 09:45:48 AM »
« Edited: February 21, 2022, 09:49:36 AM by John Ford Frank »

I haven't seen it mentioned here, but for anybody who thinks that because the occupier/terrorists have 'only' been charged with Mischief that it can't be a very serious offense.

I'm sure everybody here remembers Jussie Smollett who was convicted of lying to the police. Although he hasn't been sentenced yet...

The mayor of Surrey, British Columbia, Doug McCallum, has similarly been charged of doing the same thing Jussie Smollett did, and he has been charged with 'Mischief.'

https://globalnews.ca/news/8441118/surrey-doug-mccallum-charged-public-mischief/
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 7,066


« Reply #132 on: February 21, 2022, 09:53:42 AM »

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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,066


« Reply #133 on: February 21, 2022, 11:44:05 AM »
« Edited: February 21, 2022, 11:51:20 AM by John Ford Frank »

Also, respecting a college dean is hardly not questioning authority. Especially in the context of the 1960s and protestors at universities like Berkeley refusing to comply with school norms.

It was part of the idea of respecting authority, and it's you who have misinterpreted the song - marijuana, LSD and burning draft cards were not a matter of personal choice, but were/are illegal.

The rest is part of the debate over the song: how much of it was personal choice and how much of it was forced social conformity?

No. The point is that they're choosing not to. They could use drugs and burn draft cards, like the hippies are doing, but they won't.

Quote from: North Carolina Conservative link=topic=316424.msg8488485#msg8488485


Boomer hippies are so funny. I am unfree and it is literally 1984 because LSD is illegal. Sex outside of marriage is a federal crime. Long hair is banned.

Did you consider it a great imposition to your freedom to have to wear a mask during a pandemic?

I certainly didn't like it.

But, you don't have a problem with LSD or other drugs being illegal?

I do, actually.

1.Again, that is part of the debate about the song's lyrics, whether it was meant as a straight homage to small town America or as a parody of its social conformity. From wiki, this is what Merle Haggard himself said:

In an interview with American Songwriter, Haggard called the song a "character study," his 1969 self being the character: "It was the photograph that I took of the way things looked through the eyes of a fool... and most of America was under the same assumptions I was. As it's stayed around now for 40 years, I sing the song now with a different attitude onstage... I've become educated... I play it now with a different projection. It's a different song now. I'm different now.

2.However, if you support legalizing drugs, then I don't have a disagreement with you anyway.
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,066


« Reply #134 on: February 21, 2022, 01:10:38 PM »

Also, respecting a college dean is hardly not questioning authority. Especially in the context of the 1960s and protestors at universities like Berkeley refusing to comply with school norms.

It was part of the idea of respecting authority, and it's you who have misinterpreted the song - marijuana, LSD and burning draft cards were not a matter of personal choice, but were/are illegal.

The rest is part of the debate over the song: how much of it was personal choice and how much of it was forced social conformity?

No. The point is that they're choosing not to. They could use drugs and burn draft cards, like the hippies are doing, but they won't.

Quote from: North Carolina Conservative link=topic=316424.msg8488485#msg8488485


Boomer hippies are so funny. I am unfree and it is literally 1984 because LSD is illegal. Sex outside of marriage is a federal crime. Long hair is banned.

Did you consider it a great imposition to your freedom to have to wear a mask during a pandemic?

I certainly didn't like it.

But, you don't have a problem with LSD or other drugs being illegal?

I do, actually.

1.Again, that is part of the debate about the song's lyrics, whether it was meant as a straight homage to small town America or as a parody of its social conformity. From wiki, this is what Merle Haggard himself said:

In an interview with American Songwriter, Haggard called the song a "character study," his 1969 self being the character: "It was the photograph that I took of the way things looked through the eyes of a fool... and most of America was under the same assumptions I was. As it's stayed around now for 40 years, I sing the song now with a different attitude onstage... I've become educated... I play it now with a different projection. It's a different song now. I'm different now.

2.However, if you support legalizing drugs, then I don't have a disagreement with you anyway.

1. I am aware. The lyrics support my point.

2. You do. Because LSD being illegal doesn't change that Americans are the freest people in the world.

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
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Posts: 7,066


« Reply #135 on: February 21, 2022, 01:19:45 PM »



So Orwellian

The Orwellian thing here is Anthony Furey who works for the right wing propagandist Sun Chain and is in no way a credible journalist.
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 7,066


« Reply #136 on: February 21, 2022, 01:30:57 PM »


So Orwellian

The Orwellian thing here is Anthony Furey who works for the right wing propagandist Sun Chain and is in no way a credible journalist.
So you support the concept of calling an emergency for a potential future event?

The act can only be in effect for 30 days.  These are not references to 'potential' future events, but immediate possible events, some of which are presently being attempted.
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
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Posts: 7,066


« Reply #137 on: February 21, 2022, 01:33:25 PM »
« Edited: February 21, 2022, 01:36:57 PM by John Ford Frank »





If you believe this story, you might be a moron.
I really don't understand why this story is unbelievable. Trudeau put in place with the justification that they will freeze the bank accounts of people who donated to the convoy.

This is what was actually said:
A senior government official, speaking to reporters at a technical briefing on the Emergencies Act, said these measures are designed to target "key sources of funding."

There are other reasons to not believe it as well, which I've mentioned previously:

1.There is nobody with that first name who made a donation
2.The act is not retroactive.
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
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Posts: 7,066


« Reply #138 on: February 21, 2022, 01:59:04 PM »


So Orwellian

The Orwellian thing here is Anthony Furey who works for the right wing propagandist Sun Chain and is in no way a credible journalist.
So you support the concept of calling an emergency for a potential future event?

The wannabe January-6ers just fled to Embrun, a French town near Ottawa and already said they will be back as soon the police reopen the streets in Ottawa downtown. So, the events of the last weeks are not even finished yet.
Imagine if the government compromised on the mandates that are ending in many different places.

So, if there was a blockade in say, Calgary, that opposed the Alberta government's ending of all mandates, do you think the Kenney UCP government should seek compromise with them?
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,066


« Reply #139 on: February 21, 2022, 02:19:37 PM »
« Edited: February 21, 2022, 02:27:34 PM by John Ford Frank »


So Orwellian

The Orwellian thing here is Anthony Furey who works for the right wing propagandist Sun Chain and is in no way a credible journalist.
So you support the concept of calling an emergency for a potential future event?

The wannabe January-6ers just fled to Embrun, a French town near Ottawa and already said they will be back as soon the police reopen the streets in Ottawa downtown. So, the events of the last weeks are not even finished yet.
Imagine if the government compromised on the mandates that are ending in many different places.

The government already removed the testing mandate for vaccinated travellers. Policy has to be decided by the elected government, not by violent thugs, arsonists and foreign-funded militias, especially as their main demand now seems to be a change of government.

I don't agree with those here who say that this is somehow a change on the left and right in terms of protests and civil liberties.  I'm uncomfortable with the ability of the authorities to freeze bank accounts without a court order, but I also acknowledge that in the world we live in, options are often limited and that there are 'slippery slope' arguments on both sides: the theoretical loss of civil liberties on the one side versus the theoretical possibility of mob rule on the other side.

In regards to the potential for 'mob rule' not that it fit this situation by any means, but in 1983 in British Columbia a far more authoritarian leader than Justin Trudeau, Premier Bill Bennett went far beyond his renewed 1983 election mandate in imposing restraint.  This led to an opposition called Operation Solidarity that led legal mass protests but also called for both legal and wildcat strikes.  The political official opposition, the NDP, was caught flat footed and the opposition ultimately foundered, though some rollbacks in the legislation was agreed to, with Operation Solidarity basically splitting between the far more militant public sector unions led by Art Kubie, and the far more cautious private sector unions led by Jack Munro.

This article written by the top aid to Premier Bill Bennett, Norman Spector, further describes what occurred, but is interesting in this in that Spector often said that Premier Bill Bennett said if he was pushed to make what he thought were too many compromises, that he would call an election over the question of 'who governs the province: the elected politicians or the 'mob' on the street?'

Despite the large crowds that protested, it seemed to be the case that especially outside of the Lower Mainland and Victoria (which were a much lower share of the provincial population in 1983) that the (legal) protests weren't all that popular.

https://ipolitics.ca/2012/06/14/norman-spector-quebec-protests-provoke-a-sense-of-deja-vu-for-some-in-b-c/
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,066


« Reply #140 on: February 21, 2022, 02:24:28 PM »
« Edited: February 21, 2022, 02:44:35 PM by John Ford Frank »

Also, respecting a college dean is hardly not questioning authority. Especially in the context of the 1960s and protestors at universities like Berkeley refusing to comply with school norms.

It was part of the idea of respecting authority, and it's you who have misinterpreted the song - marijuana, LSD and burning draft cards were not a matter of personal choice, but were/are illegal.

The rest is part of the debate over the song: how much of it was personal choice and how much of it was forced social conformity?

No. The point is that they're choosing not to. They could use drugs and burn draft cards, like the hippies are doing, but they won't.

Quote from: North Carolina Conservative link=topic=316424.msg8488485#msg8488485


Boomer hippies are so funny. I am unfree and it is literally 1984 because LSD is illegal. Sex outside of marriage is a federal crime. Long hair is banned.

Did you consider it a great imposition to your freedom to have to wear a mask during a pandemic?

I certainly didn't like it.

But, you don't have a problem with LSD or other drugs being illegal?

I do, actually.

1.Again, that is part of the debate about the song's lyrics, whether it was meant as a straight homage to small town America or as a parody of its social conformity. From wiki, this is what Merle Haggard himself said:

In an interview with American Songwriter, Haggard called the song a "character study," his 1969 self being the character: "It was the photograph that I took of the way things looked through the eyes of a fool... and most of America was under the same assumptions I was. As it's stayed around now for 40 years, I sing the song now with a different attitude onstage... I've become educated... I play it now with a different projection. It's a different song now. I'm different now.

2.However, if you support legalizing drugs, then I don't have a disagreement with you anyway.

1. I am aware. The lyrics support my point.

2. You do. Because LSD being illegal doesn't change that Americans are the freest people in the world.

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

No, freedom is independence from state compulsion.

This ignores (negative) externalities which is the imposition one private citizen places on another. Any concern of 'state compulsion' which does not address the state seeking compromise between two legitimate competing private concerns which conflict with each other is ultimately incomplete.

At the most basic, your definition means that banning loud noises after 10:00 PM or so is an unjust limit to 'freedom.'
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 7,066


« Reply #141 on: February 21, 2022, 06:59:27 PM »
« Edited: February 21, 2022, 07:45:56 PM by John Ford Frank »

I'm not sure what it says that the poll I've seen on the imposition of the Emergencies Act was at 51% in favor and 42% against.  

In 1970, outside of Quebec anyway, I believe support for the imposition of the War Measures Act to deal with the FLQ was around 90%.

Around the same time, from the book Turning Point: 1968 by Irwin Unger and Debi Unger (Page 499): A Harris Poll soon after the Democratic Convention (in Chicago) showed that 66% of Americans agreed with the statement "Mayor Daley was right the way he used police against demonstrators."

The police action was shown on live television and was later described by an investigating commission as a 'police riot.'

I think things have swung too far the other way and too many people are too concerned with the rights of law breakers.  The occupation of Ottawa was illegal and the people who participated are law breakers.

As far as I'm concerned their other acts: the constant honking of horns, their continual harassment of the people of Ottawa are terrorist acts, but that it a separate debate.  Preventing people from being able to move about freely is, in itself, an illegal act.  This was, in no way, a 'peaceful protest' as people here and as the Conservative Party has lied.


I don't know that I should make too much of one poll and one event, but this does seem to be a genuine sea change in public opinion from 50 years ago: a much greater focus on 'individual rights' compared to previous times, for good and ill.

It wouldn't surprise me if at least some of it ties in with all the 'self esteem' teaching in schools.

I'm sure I sound to some here like  "Hey you kids, get off the public lawn!"
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 7,066


« Reply #142 on: February 21, 2022, 08:07:33 PM »






The government said only 76 accounts were frozen, so I strongly doubt Briane's story or even her existence.

Lol at trusting a government that is clearly fascist

 Lol at trusting OSR to  Have the slightest clue is to what "fascist" means.


Says the guy who is defending the person who called a Jewish MP a Nazi


The ADL also is concerned that Melissa Lantsman is standing with 'Nazis.'

https://www.adl.org/blog/adl-finds-1100-people-donated-to-both-canada-freedom-convoy-and-jan-6-demonstration

ADL Finds 1,100 People Donated to Both Canada Freedom Convoy and Jan. 6 Demonstration

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Benjamin Frank
Frank
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Posts: 7,066


« Reply #143 on: February 21, 2022, 09:29:52 PM »
« Edited: February 21, 2022, 09:56:39 PM by John Ford Frank »

It's a shame how indifferent the NDP is to this government using emergency powers to restrict civil liberties. Tommy Douglas was far more critical of the government using emergency powers in a much more serious situation.

This isn't your grandfather's NDP anymore.

One recalls that the young Jack Layton was drawn to the NDP thanks to Tommy Douglas's principled opposition to the invocation of the War Measures Act. The contemporary NDP would never do such a thing because it would involve taking any sort of stand at all.

This isn't the War Measures Act. The binary thinking here is getting ridiculous.

Although it was not the only reason Tommy Douglas and the NDP opposed it, part of their opposition was due to Douglas being a British Columbia M.P at the time.  Although he no longer represented Burnaby, he and the NDP were aware of then Vancouver mayor Tom Campbell who vowed to 'clean up the city' (of the hippies) if the War Measures Act was imposed, even though Vancouver hippies had nothing to do with Quebec FLQ.  

I believe then Surrey Mayor Bill Vander Zalm made a similar vow.  (Of course, Surrey was a fairly small city by population in 1970.)

There is no national suspension of civil liberties in this Emergency Act.

The comparisons with the NDP opposition in 1970 to the War Measures Act are tenuous at best.

"When the War Measures Act came into effect it gave arbitrary power to police right across Canada, not just in Quebec, and Mayor Campbell warned that he was going to use it not against terrorists but against hippies and layabouts, who he was fond of describing as “parasites on the community.""

https://www.danielfrancis.ca/blog/tales-city-8-tom-terrific-and-terrorists


Greater awareness of the history of the FLQ crisis might also be a help. 

1.The Quebec police were known to be hardline (I'm not sure this has changed all that much) which explains why several hundred separatists -very few if any involved with the FLQ - were arrested the same night The War Measures Act was imposed. The NDP also knew that.

2.Liberal Premier Robert Bourassa vacillated between wanting to negotiate with the FLQ terrorists and wanting to crack down on them. So, it was hardly the case that all regular policing options at that time had been tried.





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Benjamin Frank
Frank
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Posts: 7,066


« Reply #144 on: February 22, 2022, 06:52:38 PM »
« Edited: February 22, 2022, 07:24:14 PM by John Ford Frank »

MaxQue is defending Trudeau's actions while Trudeau and his party are smearing all opposition.
If we approach this from a strictly logical perspective, MaxQue defending Trudeau's actions on the Ottawa occupation does not automatically mean he is supporting Trudeau's party's actions in the House Of Commons. What if in the future, you support POTUS Trump doing something in 2025 and then Taylor-Greene shoots her mouth off in the House about something illogical. Would you like people to characterize you as supporting Greene's comments because she is in the POTUS' political party?

I mean Trudeau's actions are what I find so extremely authoritarian and a clear disregard for basic democratic principles. The reason I have brought up what Trudeau and liberal mp's have said in the House of Commons is that Maxque basically got so upset by my characterization of Trudeau's polices as fascist when Trudeau and his party at this very moment are justifying the use of emergency powers by smearing their opponents as fascists.

One thing I've mentioned here is I find it concerning that everything political now seems to be fought over absolutist 'principles' and rights rather than the practical side of issues.  

Michael Chong gave a thoughtful speech in which he went through the three criteria needed to enact the Emergencies Act and obviously came down against arguing that the government did not meet the third test, that all other methods to end this occupation had been tried, but I don't believe he said what the federal government could have tried first.

I'll see if I can find his speech when I have more time.

So much of this seems to depend on which side of the political fence people stand on.  I haven't looked at the thread, but for instance, I wonder how many of those on the right here refer to Florida Governor Ron deSantis as an authoritarian for his 'don't say gay' legislation.

Or, in an earlier time, not that the U.K has a written Constitution, but Conservatives in 1981 certainly liked Conservative U.K Prime Minister for her dictatorial leadership  and refusal to compromise.  The people of Scotland certainly regarded her as a dictator and under her tenure, Scotland went from being a Conservative leaning area to solid Labour.

This section of her 1981 speech at the Conservative Convention highlighted her dictatorial style and the positive reaction to it.  She wasn't known as the 'Iron Lady' for nothing.



For what it's worth, these are a few of the replies:

Michael Walker
3 months ago (edited)
God bless lady Thatcher our Iron Lady greatly and sadly missed her name will be etched in history as one of the greatest  Prime Ministers of the 20th century


MrMrmike5
10 years ago
The 80's...awesome. That was when people actually got things done. People may not agree with what happened, but nevertheless, something did happen.

Sales Consultant
12 years ago
That's what you call a real Prime Minister !

As I remarked elsewhere, when people say "The government didn't consult enough" it almost always means "the government didn't do what I wanted."

In the 1980s, I think mostly on the political right I think there clearly wasn't enough concern for fundamental rights, but I think there is too much concern now for rights and principles, although, as I said above, I wonder how much concern there is for these things on the right when there is a right wing leader.

In general though, I think there needs to be a better balancing between rights and 'law and order', and that a greater focus on the practically of an issue would be a good place to start.




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Benjamin Frank
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« Reply #145 on: February 23, 2022, 07:40:39 PM »

Scotland was never one of the best Tory areas in the UK, and could last be meaningfully described as "leaning" towards them in the 1950s. It is true, though, that Thatcher augmented their decline there.

Yes.  I had thought the Conservatives were more popular in Scotland prior to Thatcher, but they did win 22 of the then 71 seats in Scotland in 1979.
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Benjamin Frank
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« Reply #146 on: February 23, 2022, 07:41:03 PM »

It took a sharp rebuke from the Council of Europe to get Kinnicchio to drop LABOUR platform support for closed shops/forced unionisation and sympathy strikes. Maggie was right to smash Wot Arthur.

Authoritarian
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Benjamin Frank
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« Reply #147 on: February 23, 2022, 08:13:30 PM »
« Edited: February 23, 2022, 09:05:58 PM by John Ford Frank »

It took a sharp rebuke from the Council of Europe to get Kinnicchio to drop LABOUR platform support for closed shops/forced unionisation and sympathy strikes. Maggie was right to smash Wot Arthur.

Authoritarian
Nope. Just opposed to forced unionisation and secondary picketing.

And I'm opposed to blockades, but Trudeau and the people who supported the imposition of the Emergencies Act to deal with them are still referred to here as 'authoritarian.'

Margaret Thatcher's methods could be far more extreme than anything Trudeau has done.

For instance:

A truncheon is clearly visible in the picture, poised above a figure wedged against a wall. Witnesses say police struck the miner repeatedly before he was dragged from the perimeter of Easington colliery in Durham and arrested for a "picket-line offence".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/dec/02/miners-strike-orgreave-special-report

And for those who tone police Prime Minister Trudeau, this is what Thatcher said of the striking miners:

"We had to fight the enemy without in the Falklands. We always have to be aware of the enemy within, which is much more difficult to fight and more dangerous to liberty."

https://www.businessinsider.com/thacher-versus-the-unions-2013-4
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Benjamin Frank
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« Reply #148 on: February 23, 2022, 10:05:52 PM »

It took a sharp rebuke from the Council of Europe to get Kinnicchio to drop LABOUR platform support for closed shops/forced unionisation and sympathy strikes. Maggie was right to smash Wot Arthur.

Authoritarian
Nope. Just opposed to forced unionisation and secondary picketing.

And I'm opposed to blockades, but Trudeau and the people who supported the imposition of the Emergencies Act to deal with them are still referred to here as 'authoritarian.'

Margaret Thatcher's methods could be far more extreme than anything Trudeau has done.

For instance:

A truncheon is clearly visible in the picture, poised above a figure wedged against a wall. Witnesses say police struck the miner repeatedly before he was dragged from the perimeter of Easington colliery in Durham and arrested for a "picket-line offence".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/dec/02/miners-strike-orgreave-special-report

And for those who tone police Prime Minister Trudeau, this is what Thatcher said of the striking miners:

"We had to fight the enemy without in the Falklands. We always have to be aware of the enemy within, which is much more difficult to fight and more dangerous to liberty."

https://www.businessinsider.com/thacher-versus-the-unions-2013-4

Striking unionists attacking those seeking to work should be responded to with force, and peaceful protestors should not be.

It's gaslighting at best to refer to this as a 'peaceful protest.'  At a minimum, they also prevented thousands of people from being able to go to work.

Anyway, interesting to see you show yourself as an, at least sometimes, supporter of authoritarianism.
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Benjamin Frank
Frank
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 7,066


« Reply #149 on: February 26, 2022, 05:26:27 AM »


The most obvious explanation is that Trudeau saw some absolutely horrific polls between Monday and Wednesday. He only had a narrow majority's support for invoking the EA when the Ambassador Bridge and Ottawa were both blocked off so I'd imagine even a lot of his supporters had an issue when he tried to extend it.

Alternatively, supposedly the banking portion of the EA caused a significant amount of bank account closures and capital flight. With how tied in the Liberal Party is with Bay Street its not out the question that the revocation was made after the bankers saw how much money they were losing.

Singh is the real loser here though. He humiliated himself and his party just for Trudeau to go "oh, actually, nevermind"

First poll post imposition of the Securities Act (though completed before its revocation.)

Abacus Data, February 17-22,
Liberal 31%
Conservative 31%
NDP 20%
B.Q: 8%
PPC: 6%
Green: 3%

https://abacusdata.ca/canadian-politics-emegencies-act-feb-2022/
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