France General Discussion IV: Yellow Fever

[warandwar]

Méluche is standing in 2022... on the condition that he gets a "people's nomination" of 150'000 people signing in support of his candidature. Which shouldn't be too difficult, you'd imagine.

I still don't like him, but if I'm honest, between him and the Greens I'd probably go for him at this point in time.

This seems to be a growing opinion. I know that Houria Bouteldja, who's not usually a fan, has said he's the best choice.

[PSOL]

Méluche is standing in 2022... on the condition that he gets a "people's nomination" of 150'000 people signing in support of his candidature. Which shouldn't be too difficult, you'd imagine.

I still don't like him, but if I'm honest, between him and the Greens I'd probably go for him at this point in time.

This seems to be a growing opinion. I know that Houria Bouteldja, who's not usually a fan, has said he's the best choice.

If someone said that motherf•••ing Melenchon would outlast the two anglophone social democratic candidates 2 years ago, I would be assuming they are telling a joke.

Personally I’m still going to vote for the NPA because I have zero faith in him or LFI

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/IfopOpinion/status/1324337506545008640


Sharia law is more important that French law, thinks 57% (+10 since 2016) of young Muslims and 38% among all Muslims vs 15% of Catholics (Christianity above French law).

Totally cool.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/1326451671875072011

[NewYorkExpress]

Macron accuses English-langauge media of "legitimizing violence"

Facing protests in the Muslim world over his response to terror attacks in France, President Emmanuel Macron phoned a New York Times media columnist to rail against “bias” in the English-language media and accuse some newspapers of “legitimising this violence”.

In the New York Times interview, Macron claimed media outside France did not understand the concept of the separation of church and state, and condemned newspapers which criticised France’s policy towards Muslims.

Macron has been the subject of protests for his perceived attacks on Islam, after he backed the publication of cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad and claimed in a speech that Islam “is in crisis all over the world today”. Protesters in some countries have called for a boycott of French products.

[NewYorkExpress]

Macron calls for Europe to "build our independence" from the United States

French President Emanuel Macron said European Union nations must continue efforts to become independent from the U.S. in the areas of defense and finance even after President-elect Joe Biden takes office.

“The United States will only respect us as allies if we are earnest, and if we are sovereign with respect to our defense,” Macron told French policy journal Le Grand Continent, according to Bloomberg. “We need to continue to build our independence for ourselves.”

Macron also reportedly cited the U.S. dollar’s status as a worldwide reserve currency, which he noted left Europe at an economic disadvantage in disagreements over the Iran nuclear agreement, which the U.S. exited in 2018.


The French president has frequently opined that Europe should take the lead on building up independent defense and foreign policies. He said last year that EU countries are over-reliant on the U.S. and NATO, saying the latter was experiencing “brain death.”

Macron in the new interview also pushed back on German Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer’s claim that Europe was incapable of doing what the U.S. does to maintain European security.

“That it is a historical misinterpretation,” he said, according to Bloomberg. “Fortunately, if I understood things correctly, [German Chancellor Angela Merkel] does not share this point of view.”

[Zinneke]

The problem with Macron, and indeed most French foreign policy hacks preaching Europe as the Third Way, is that by a European Foreign Policy they mean a French-dominated Foreign Policy and leaving domestic matters to the Germans and the small countries. And a French-dominated Foreign Policy is actually at odds with both what the EU has inscribed as its values (multilateralism, neo-liberalism, Kantian peace, etc) and what it actually does as an organisation (use trade and trade regulations ("normative power Europe") as the number 1 FP tool, as both a carrot and stick, everything else second - essentially selling themselves as the worlds leading bureaucrats).

They are touting the idea that they give up their UNSC seat to the EU but let’s be honest, it will never happen because of the domestic pushback it would have. From then on you wouldn’t trust the French government, even under a pro-EU leadership like Macron’s, to vote against their own interests in the Security Council. They invented raison d’état, although Macron isn’t actually in that tradition (a rare occurrence), their FP establishment won't give it up for some blue sky thinkers in Brussels.

The second issue, and related to this is that clearly there is a divergence of interests between the Mediterranean countries and the old Eastern Block. One, led by France, thinks the Med, political islam and instability in the Maghreb is the greatest security priority, and thinks Russia can actually eventually be an ally in this. The other thinks Russia is and always will be, structurally, the number one threat to European security. And meanwhile the Nordic countries and Germany sort of evaluate their options, push commercial interests and press for caution and multilateralist “newspeak”, and Italy tries to go at it alone at times in a Bismarckian fashion and fails miserably. Point being, Neighbourhood European interests can (and have) be easily defined, but the temptation is too big on both sides of the Med/Eastern Block divide to start playing each other that they both can’t agree to just set this structural issue aside. I think Macron also sees Russia and Putin as someone who can eventually be turned against China, hence why Macron actually tried to woo Trump on this idea and vice versa.

All in all though, yes, we shouldn’t really have to pray every 4 years a Democrat is re-elected into office. The US institutions fooled us once with Bush Jnr. taking us into his Crusade. With Trump we were fooled by taking the piss out of him and he took us to the cleaners, could easily have done serious damage in a second term (recognising breakway states, ignoring Russian attacks).

[NewYorkExpress]

Macron demands French Muslims accept "Charter of Republican Values"

French President Emmanuel Macron has asked Muslim leaders to accept a "charter of republican values" as part of a broad clampdown on radical Islam.

On Wednesday he gave the French Council of the Muslim Faith (CFCM) a 15-day ultimatum to accept the charter.

The CFCM has agreed to create a National Council of Imams, which will reportedly issue imams with official accreditation which could be withdrawn.

It follows three suspected Islamist attacks in little more than a month.

The charter will state that Islam is a religion and not a political movement, while also prohibiting "foreign interference" in Muslim groups.

Mr Macron has strongly defended French secularism in the wake of the attacks, which included the beheading of a teacher who showed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad during a class discussion last month.[/quote

Lawmakers debating a bill that would ban the publishing of images of police officers with intent to cause harm.

French lawmakers start debating a security bill Tuesday that would ban the publication of images of police officers with intent to cause them harm, a measure that has provoked outrage from journalist organizations and rights campaigners.

Critics, including the United Nations, France’s human rights ombudsman and Reporters Without Borders, say the proposed law would hurt press freedoms.

Over a hundred people from journalists' unions and human rights groups protested Tuesday afternoon in front of the National Assembly in Paris, ahead of the debate that was scheduled to begin in the evening.

The Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights at the United Nations expressed fears in a report that the bill “could lead to significant violations of human rights and fundamental freedoms, in particular the right to privacy and the right to freedom of expression.”

The proposed law is championed by lawmakers of President Emmanuel Macron’s party, which has a majority at the National Assembly.

Its most controversial measure would make it a new criminal offense “to disseminate, by whatever means and on whatever media, with the intent of causing physical or psychological harm, an image of the face or any other element that could identify a police officer.”

Offenders would face up to one year in prison and a 45,000-euro ($53,000) fine.

[NewYorkExpress]

Nicolas Sarkozy's corruption trial has begun.

He was nicknamed the "bling-bling" president for what many in France saw as his lavish tastes - but now Nicolas Sarkozy faces the stark reality of a soulless courtroom.

He has gone on trial accused of corruption and influence-peddling, for allegedly trying to bribe a magistrate in return for information about an investigation into his party finances.

...

His first court appearance was brief, however. The session was suspended after 30 minutes - until Thursday - because a key figure in the case, former senior judge Gilbert Azibert, is required to have a medical examination.

He is 73 and did not appear in the dock with his co-accused - Mr Sarkozy, 65, and the ex-president's former lawyer Thierry Herzog. There is a question mark over the court proceedings because of the general coronavirus disruption.

The trial is set to run until 10 December. If found guilty, Mr Sarkozy could face a 10-year prison sentence and €1m (£889,000) fine.

[parochial boy]

So, just as they are trying to make taking photos of the police illegal, a police operation to evacuate a refugee camp at the Place de la République in Central Paris (after they had already been forcibly cleared out of one in Saint-Denis), turns violent enough for even Darmanin to be shocked.

One of the many videos going around, the guy in this one is not actually a protestor, but a journalist.

https://twitter.com/Nicomay/status/1330991518765735937

In other news, Olivier Faure wants to rename the Parti Socialiste. But minor fringe parties renaming themselves isn't that interesting. Especially in France where they do it all the time.

[Former President tack50]

Why would the PS rename itself? They've been under that name for ages, wouldn't the heritage be a better tradeoff than whatever minor gains they could get from renaming themselves to "Democratic Party" or something? (especially when Socialism is not a dirty word in France or anything)

Granted, I guess that would have also applied to their old SFIO name, but given how the Workers' International had long been disbanded at that point I don't think the comparison is good.

[parochial boy]

Why would the PS rename itself? They've been under that name for ages, wouldn't the heritage be a better tradeoff than whatever minor gains they could get from renaming themselves to "Democratic Party" or something? (especially when Socialism is not a dirty word in France or anything)

Granted, I guess that would have also applied to their old SFIO name, but given how the Workers' International had long been disbanded at that point I don't think the comparison is good.

Reading between the lines, it seems basically like an admission that the PS's brand is ruined, that nobody even really knows what they stand for and that they are never they don't have a hope of gaining any form of power in their own right at any point in the near future.

Faure's big "thing" for a while now has been pushing for a united left. He's just come in with a big load of propositions about a united left front going forward to the presidentialy, where there will be a "popular consultation" in instances where the different formations can't agree.

It's all kind of despairing woolly politician speak, but I can't hold it too much against him to at least, you know, vaguely admit that the current ego dance on the left is suicidal. The problem is that the ego dance is already there; Mélenchon is in, Arnaud Montebourg is trying to find a way in, EÉLV are absolutely not going to sit this one out after what Hamon did to them in 2017. And barely any of them really seem to have much of relevance to say at the moment, even when you'd think all the social contestation would be an open goal for them.

That and there is really no love lost between say, LFI and the ecologists - and guys like Jadot or the other EÉLV liberals don't really have too much in common with Mélenchon's crowd, ideologically speaking, from the outset.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1331283719454420993

[Zinneke]

Why would the PS rename itself? They've been under that name for ages, wouldn't the heritage be a better tradeoff than whatever minor gains they could get from renaming themselves to "Democratic Party" or something? (especially when Socialism is not a dirty word in France or anything)

Granted, I guess that would have also applied to their old SFIO name, but given how the Workers' International had long been disbanded at that point I don't think the comparison is good.

Reading between the lines, it seems basically like an admission that the PS's brand is ruined, that nobody even really knows what they stand for and that they are never they don't have a hope of gaining any form of power in their own right at any point in the near future.

Faure's big "thing" for a while now has been pushing for a united left. He's just come in with a big load of propositions about a united left front going forward to the presidentialy, where there will be a "popular consultation" in instances where the different formations can't agree.

It's all kind of despairing woolly politician speak, but I can't hold it too much against him to at least, you know, vaguely admit that the current ego dance on the left is suicidal. The problem is that the ego dance is already there; Mélenchon is in, Arnaud Montebourg is trying to find a way in, EÉLV are absolutely not going to sit this one out after what Hamon did to them in 2017. And barely any of them really seem to have much of relevance to say at the moment, even when you'd think all the social contestation would be an open goal for them.

That and there is really no love lost between say, LFI and the ecologists - and guys like Jadot or the other EÉLV liberals don't really have too much in common with Mélenchon's crowd, ideologically speaking, from the outset.

I dunno, I still think either Ruffin or Manon Aubry for example* would at least make EELV think twice about running or backing a united left ticket. their fraticide is largely down to Mélenchon's egotism, even if there are clear ideological differences.

*I'm not saying they would be good candidates.

[parochial boy]

Why would the PS rename itself? They've been under that name for ages, wouldn't the heritage be a better tradeoff than whatever minor gains they could get from renaming themselves to "Democratic Party" or something? (especially when Socialism is not a dirty word in France or anything)

Granted, I guess that would have also applied to their old SFIO name, but given how the Workers' International had long been disbanded at that point I don't think the comparison is good.

Reading between the lines, it seems basically like an admission that the PS's brand is ruined, that nobody even really knows what they stand for and that they are never they don't have a hope of gaining any form of power in their own right at any point in the near future.

Faure's big "thing" for a while now has been pushing for a united left. He's just come in with a big load of propositions about a united left front going forward to the presidentialy, where there will be a "popular consultation" in instances where the different formations can't agree.

It's all kind of despairing woolly politician speak, but I can't hold it too much against him to at least, you know, vaguely admit that the current ego dance on the left is suicidal. The problem is that the ego dance is already there; Mélenchon is in, Arnaud Montebourg is trying to find a way in, EÉLV are absolutely not going to sit this one out after what Hamon did to them in 2017. And barely any of them really seem to have much of relevance to say at the moment, even when you'd think all the social contestation would be an open goal for them.

That and there is really no love lost between say, LFI and the ecologists - and guys like Jadot or the other EÉLV liberals don't really have too much in common with Mélenchon's crowd, ideologically speaking, from the outset.

I dunno, I still think either Ruffin or Manon Aubry for example* would at least make EELV think twice about running or backing a united left ticket. their fraticide is largely down to Mélenchon's egotism, even if there are clear ideological differences.

*I'm not saying they would be good candidates.

Parts of the party, the Julien Bayou types might, but the new mayors of Lyon and Bordeaux I'm not seeing really ever getting on board with anyone brandishing LFI's style of leftism, Méluche or otherwise - and Jadot has come out with enough stuff too that I woudn't really trust him. Various LFI affiliated types also seem to have had an intensely negative reaction towards EÉLV and with Mélenchon in it as well it's moot anyway.

Honestly probably doesn't matter in any case - the left's objective in 2022 is probably more to avoid going the way of the Polish left than it is to have any real shot at getting into power

[NewYorkExpress]

Several Parisian Police Officers were suspended after video was published showing them beating and racially abusing a black man who wasn't wearing a mask.

Several French police officers were suspended Thursday after a video emerged of them beating a Black man in Paris.

French Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin said he personally ordered the suspensions after the security camera footage was published by the news website Loopsider.

The video from Saturday shows the man, identified by his lawyer as Michel Zecler, being beaten by the officers.

"These images are unspeakable, extremely shocking and as soon as I learned about them, and about what happened, I asked for the suspension of those police officers," Darmanin said in a televised address Thursday night.

"As soon as the facts will be confirmed by justice, since it is looking into it, I will ask for the dismissal of those police officers," he added.

Loopsider published an interview with an unnamed man with facial injuries which it said was the victim of the beating. "At that moment, I'm scared, I'm telling myself maybe today is my last day, here's what I thought to myself, it's my last day and I don't know why," he said in the video.

Reuters said the man told reporters he was walking near his studio without a face mask, a breach of French Covid-19 rules. He said he ducked into the studio when he saw the police officers to avoid a fine. The man said the officers then physically beat and racially abused him.

[parochial boy]

Big demo against the security law today; and you can't help but notice the optics of passing this particular law at a time where the police seem to be going committing a number of highly publicised and visible acts of violence

[Zinneke]

Big demo against the security law today; and you can't help but notice the optics of passing this particular law at a time where the police seem to be going committing a number of highly publicised and visible acts of violence

Because you can trust some of the French police to be stupid enough to start immediately abusing their sense of newfound uninhibited political power.

[parochial boy]

https://www.lemonde.fr/disparitions/article/2020/12/02/valery-giscard-d-estaing-ancien-president-de-la-republique-est-mort_6061969_3382.html

VGE has passed away. A bit before my time, but I thought "Ramenez la coupe à la maison" was a pretty good song.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

https://www.lemonde.fr/disparitions/article/2020/12/02/valery-giscard-d-estaing-ancien-president-de-la-republique-est-mort_6061969_3382.html

VGE has passed away. A bit before my time, but I thought "Ramenez la coupe à la maison" was a pretty good song.

RIP to a true Red Tory.

[Estrella]

[CumbrianLefty]

A very interesting, even if flawed, man and politician. RIP.

[NewYorkExpress]

New bill being presented by the Government that would ban "virginity certificates" for Muslim women, restricts home schooling and would allow for further restrictions on hate speech on social media.

French President Emmanuel Macron planned to present an anti-religious extremism bill on Wednesday that would ban “virginity certificates” for Muslim women and restrict home-schooling in the nation.

The administration is unveiling the bill with the goal of protecting “republican principles” and curbing Islamist extremism within France after extremists carried out two fatal terror attacks in October, the Financial Times reported. The French president intended to present the bill at a Cabinet meeting on Wednesday.

Macron’s bill would extend France’s traditional secular neutrality in government services to private-sector companies if they are contacted by the government.


The French president has received backlash for the bill and has been condemned for alleged Islamophobia by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan. Macron has dismissed these concerns, saying the proposal is designed to target Islamist extremists in particular, not all Muslims.

“We are not targeting Muslims,” one of Macron’s advisers said, according to the Financial Times. “We are targeting movements that in the name of religion have a discourse against the republic.”

[Omega21]

New bill being presented by the Government that would ban "virginity certificates" for Muslim women, restricts home schooling and would allow for further restrictions on hate speech on social media.

French President Emmanuel Macron planned to present an anti-religious extremism bill on Wednesday that would ban “virginity certificates” for Muslim women and restrict home-schooling in the nation.

The administration is unveiling the bill with the goal of protecting “republican principles” and curbing Islamist extremism within France after extremists carried out two fatal terror attacks in October, the Financial Times reported. The French president intended to present the bill at a Cabinet meeting on Wednesday.

Macron’s bill would extend France’s traditional secular neutrality in government services to private-sector companies if they are contacted by the government.


The French president has received backlash for the bill and has been condemned for alleged Islamophobia by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan. Macron has dismissed these concerns, saying the proposal is designed to target Islamist extremists in particular, not all Muslims.

“We are not targeting Muslims,” one of Macron’s advisers said, according to the Financial Times. “We are targeting movements that in the name of religion have a discourse against the republic.”

Just to correct the article, this is not true.
 
The French state cannot ban something for someone, it can just ban something for everyone.

Now, the fact that this is mostly used by extreme Islamists when "giving away" their daughters is another story.

A woman is not a car that needs a technical inspection, so a good decision. Plus, according to the WHO, the exam is unscientific as well.

[NewYorkExpress]

Facebook accuses the French Military of running a troll farm targeting several African countries.

Facebook accused people linked to the French military on Tuesday of running a covert online influence operation targeting parts of Africa. It is the first time Facebook has publicly linked a campaign like this to individuals connected to a Western military.

The deceptive tactics allegedly used, which include using Facebook to pose as locals in the targeted countries, mirror misinformation campaigns run by the Russian government.

Facebook staff told reporters on a press call Tuesday that the company could not say if the operation was directed by the French military itself -- they only said it was run by "individuals associated" with the military.

According to Facebook, the operations targeted the "Central African Republic and Mali, and to a lesser extent Niger, Burkina Faso, Algeria, Cote d'Ivoire and Chad."

Facebook removed the accounts and also announced on Tuesday that it had removed accounts, also posing as Africans, that were linked to Russian troll group.

In some cases, Facebook said, the fake French and Russian accounts even interacted with each other.

....

Facebook said the alleged French accounts "posted primarily in French and Arabic about news and current events including France's policies in Francophone Africa, the security situation in various African countries, claims of potential Russian interference in the election in the Central African Republic (CAR), supportive commentary about French military, and criticism of Russia's involvement in CAR."

Elections are due to take place in CAR later this month.

One post in French read, "The Russian imperialists are a gangrene on Mali! Watch out for the tsarist lobotomy!"

The alleged Russian accounts, in turn, criticized the French.

"While we've seen influence operations target the same regions in the past, this was the first time our team found two campaigns — from France and Russia — actively engage with one another, including by befriending, commenting and criticizing the opposing side for being fake," the authors of the Facebook blog post, Nathaniel Gleicher, head of security policy, and David Agranovich, global threat disruption lead, wrote.