SENATE RESOLUTION: The Recall of Senators Amendment (Passed)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Senate Resolution

To allow for recall of Senators by the Regions they represent.

Be it resolved by two-thirds of each chamber that the Constitution be amended, as follows, upon ratification by the regions.

Section I: Title
1. This Resolution shall be titled, "The Recall of Senators Amendment"

Section 2: Changes to the Constitution
Article III, Section II, Clause 1 is amended as follows.

1. The Senate of the Republic of Atlasia shall consist of two Senators from each Region, elected for a term of four months in the manner prescribed by the legislature thereof. Senators shall be subject to recall according to such provisions as may be established in the constitutions of their respective Regions; but no Region shall make or enforce any Act or other Rule prescribing regular elections for the Senate, except in accordance with the provisions established herein.

This amendment modifies Article III, Section II, Clause I to insert language that explicitly allows for the regions to recall their Senators, provided that the vote has the participation of the majority of the region's registered voters. The added language also leaves the further terms and rules for such recalls to be determined by the regional legislature.

Sponsor: Tack50
Senate Designation: SR 9014

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The sponsor has 24 hours to advocate for this constitutional amendment and the Senators shall have 48 hours beyond with which to respond, ask questions, etc.

Failure to comply will result in...

[Former President tack50]

Thank you.

It came to my attention reciently on Discord that there was interest on reviving the Recall of Senators Ammendment, which failed last session in the House.

As such I've decided to re-introduce it. This is the original version as it stood when sent to the house, but I think this will probably need some ammendments in order to ensure passage by both houses of Congress (including some sort of minimum turnout and/or a supermajority requirement)

I genuinely think this is a good ammendment. This will allow for an alternative to expulsion when the Senate isn't willing to pursue expulsion for some reason; and I do not think we should hold Senators to a different standard than other elected officials. If a Senator has failed his constituents, the people of the region should be allowed to recall said Senator.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

"Senators shall be subject to recall in each Region, according to the provisions that at least a quarter of registered voters in the respective Region must sign a petition to initiate a recall, an initiated recall vote must require the turnout of at least half of registered voters in the respective Region; and 3/5 of all votes, excluding abstentions, must be cast in favor of the recall; but no Region shall make or enforce any Act or other Rule prescribing regular elections for the Senate, except in accordance with the provisions established herein"

This amendment, to set the standards for recall, was agreed to on Discord. i would hope that a Senator would sponsor this amendment.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I have doubts this will make it through the house based on the result last time.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

"Senators shall be subject to recall in each Region, according to the provisions that at least a quarter of registered voters in the respective Region must sign a petition to initiate a recall, an initiated recall vote must require the turnout of at least half of registered voters in the respective Region; and 3/5 of all votes, excluding abstentions, must be cast in favor of the recall; but no Region shall make or enforce any Act or other Rule prescribing regular elections for the Senate, except in accordance with the provisions established herein"

This amendment, to set the standards for recall, was agreed to on Discord. i would hope that a Senator would sponsor this amendment.

Agreed to by who? Random people in chat? Influential House members who voted nay last time?

[Former President tack50]

"Senators shall be subject to recall in each Region, according to the provisions that at least a quarter of registered voters in the respective Region must sign a petition to initiate a recall, an initiated recall vote must require the turnout of at least half of registered voters in the respective Region; and 3/5 of all votes, excluding abstentions, must be cast in favor of the recall; but no Region shall make or enforce any Act or other Rule prescribing regular elections for the Senate, except in accordance with the provisions established herein"

This amendment, to set the standards for recall, was agreed to on Discord. i would hope that a Senator would sponsor this amendment.

Agreed to by who? Random people in chat? Influential House members who voted nay last time?

Generally House members (but also random people in chat). Revising the chat I can certainly say Louisville Thunder and Jimmy claimed to support an ammended version, both of whom voted to table the ammendment in the House last time.

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

"Senators shall be subject to recall in each Region, according to the provisions that at least a quarter of registered voters in the respective Region must sign a petition to initiate a recall, an initiated recall vote must require the turnout of at least half of registered voters in the respective Region; and 3/5 of all votes, excluding abstentions, must be cast in favor of the recall; but no Region shall make or enforce any Act or other Rule prescribing regular elections for the Senate, except in accordance with the provisions established herein"

This amendment, to set the standards for recall, was agreed to on Discord. i would hope that a Senator would sponsor this amendment.

Agreed to by who? Random people in chat? Influential House members who voted nay last time?

Generally House members (but also random people in chat). Revising the chat I can certainly say Louisville Thunder and Jimmy claimed to support an ammended version, both of whom voted to table the ammendment in the House last time.

For full disclosure, I did not approve of allowing recalls without activity limits to prevent active senators from being recalled. Jimmy only supported the minimum turnout/supermajority requirments while I support both.

[Former President tack50]

"Senators shall be subject to recall in each Region, according to the provisions that at least a quarter of registered voters in the respective Region must sign a petition to initiate a recall, an initiated recall vote must require the turnout of at least half of registered voters in the respective Region; and 3/5 of all votes, excluding abstentions, must be cast in favor of the recall; but no Region shall make or enforce any Act or other Rule prescribing regular elections for the Senate, except in accordance with the provisions established herein"

This amendment, to set the standards for recall, was agreed to on Discord. i would hope that a Senator would sponsor this amendment.

Agreed to by who? Random people in chat? Influential House members who voted nay last time?

Generally House members (but also random people in chat). Revising the chat I can certainly say Louisville Thunder and Jimmy claimed to support an ammended version, both of whom voted to table the ammendment in the House last time.

For full disclosure, I did not approve of allowing recalls without activity limits to prevent active senators from being recalled. Jimmy only supported the minimum turnout/supermajority requirments while I support both.

Fair enough. I imagine that means you would support the ammendment ASV proposed? (minimum 50% turnout and minimum 60% yes)

[Esteemed Jimmy]

With slight grammar changes, I hope a senator will propose and the Senate adopt this amendment. Requiring the signatures of 25% of voters in a region will reduce the chances of improper recalls, and requiring at least half of registered voters, with 60% of them voting aye on the recall, will make sure recalls aren't too easy or done for no real reason.

"Senators shall be subject to recall in each Region, according to the provisions that at least a quarter of registered voters in the respective Region must sign a petition to initiate a recall, an initiated recall vote must require the turnout of at least half of registered voters in the respective Region; and three-fifths of all votes, excluding abstentions, must be cast in favor of the recall; but no Region shall make or enforce any Act or other Rule prescribing regular elections for the Senate, except in accordance with the provisions established herein."

[AustralianSwingVoter]

I would ask that a Senator would formally sponsor Jimmy's amendment, so we can get moving with this.

[windjammer]

I mean,
It appears I have to repeat myself but you cannot imagine how easily this kind of clause can be hijacked. "Hell is paved with good intentions".

I invaded once a region, transformed it from the most socon one to a labor stronghold by flipping the IRL DINOs by running on a socially moderate platform and by moving voters en masse to this.

If I were playing this game with that clause, Griffin and I would have easily targeted senators by moving voters en masse and then started a recall.

And I don't understand the reasoning behind this, inactive senators get expulsed by the senate. What the point of passing that?

[ON Progressive]

I will sponsor Jimmy's amendment.

[Former President tack50]

I mean,
It appears I have to repeat myself but you cannot imagine how easily this kind of clause can be hijacked. "Hell is paved with good intentions".

I invaded once a region, transformed it from the most socon one to a labor stronghold by flipping the IRL DINOs by running on a socially moderate platform and by moving voters en masse to this.

If I were playing this game with that clause, Griffin and I would have easily targeted senators by moving voters en masse and then started a recall.

And I don't understand the reasoning behind this, inactive senators get expulsed by the senate. What the point of passing that?

Well, there are some safeguards to try and prevent abuse in the ammendment.

As for the point of this, it's basically to prevent an scenario where the Senate protects a bad/inactive senator on purpose, or someonw who always just barely escapes the rules. It's not hard to imagine say, a senator who mostly trolls and rarely posts, yet it's protected for partisan reasons.

In that scenario the people of the region would be able to recall said senator.

[Former President tack50]

Also, Jimmy's ammendment sponsored by ON Progressive is friendly.

I'm not a huge fan of it, but I recognize it's the only way this will pass the house.

[windjammer]

I mean,
It appears I have to repeat myself but you cannot imagine how easily this kind of clause can be hijacked. "Hell is paved with good intentions".

I invaded once a region, transformed it from the most socon one to a labor stronghold by flipping the IRL DINOs by running on a socially moderate platform and by moving voters en masse to this.

If I were playing this game with that clause, Griffin and I would have easily targeted senators by moving voters en masse and then started a recall.

And I don't understand the reasoning behind this, inactive senators get expulsed by the senate. What the point of passing that?

Well, there are some safeguards to try and prevent abuse in the ammendment.

As for the point of this, it's basically to prevent an scenario where the Senate protects a bad/inactive senator on purpose, or someonw who always just barely escapes the rules. It's not hard to imagine say, a senator who mostly trolls and rarely posts, yet it's protected for partisan reasons.

In that scenario the people of the region would be able to recall said senator.

Well,
When was the last time a "senator who mostly trolls and rarely posts" was protected for partisan reasons?

[Former President tack50]

I mean,
It appears I have to repeat myself but you cannot imagine how easily this kind of clause can be hijacked. "Hell is paved with good intentions".

I invaded once a region, transformed it from the most socon one to a labor stronghold by flipping the IRL DINOs by running on a socially moderate platform and by moving voters en masse to this.

If I were playing this game with that clause, Griffin and I would have easily targeted senators by moving voters en masse and then started a recall.

And I don't understand the reasoning behind this, inactive senators get expulsed by the senate. What the point of passing that?

Well, there are some safeguards to try and prevent abuse in the ammendment.

As for the point of this, it's basically to prevent an scenario where the Senate protects a bad/inactive senator on purpose, or someonw who always just barely escapes the rules. It's not hard to imagine say, a senator who mostly trolls and rarely posts, yet it's protected for partisan reasons.

In that scenario the people of the region would be able to recall said senator.

Well,
When was the last time a "senator who mostly trolls and rarely posts" was protected for partisan reasons?

I'll admit it's an unlikely possibility but a possibility nontheless.

Still I also don't get the abuse argument considering that regional recalls have never been abused either. And the thresholds for recalling a legislator or a governor are lower than this proposed ammendment. Should we really hold Senators to a higher standard?

[windjammer]

I mean,
It appears I have to repeat myself but you cannot imagine how easily this kind of clause can be hijacked. "Hell is paved with good intentions".

I invaded once a region, transformed it from the most socon one to a labor stronghold by flipping the IRL DINOs by running on a socially moderate platform and by moving voters en masse to this.

If I were playing this game with that clause, Griffin and I would have easily targeted senators by moving voters en masse and then started a recall.

And I don't understand the reasoning behind this, inactive senators get expulsed by the senate. What the point of passing that?

Well, there are some safeguards to try and prevent abuse in the ammendment.

As for the point of this, it's basically to prevent an scenario where the Senate protects a bad/inactive senator on purpose, or someonw who always just barely escapes the rules. It's not hard to imagine say, a senator who mostly trolls and rarely posts, yet it's protected for partisan reasons.

In that scenario the people of the region would be able to recall said senator.

Well,
When was the last time a "senator who mostly trolls and rarely posts" was protected for partisan reasons?

I'll admit it's an unlikely possibility but a possibility nontheless.

Still I also don't get the abuse argument considering that regional recalls have never been abused either. And the thresholds for recalling a legislator or a governor are lower than this proposed ammendment. Should we really hold Senators to a higher standard?

So as you admit yourself it's an unlikely possibility, why bothering creating something new that will solve no problems (as they don't exist)? Lechasseur was recalled twice for example, unanimously.


As for the recall in the local offices, well the main it's not abused it's simply because most people don't pay enough attention to this kind of elections. It often happens that parties struggle to recruit candidates. The senate matters much more, as your election demonstrated it. You losing or winning was the outcome deciding whether the feds would have got their legislative majority or not. A senate election matters much more than a local election.

There is a clear risk of abuse with this clause. If I were playing right now, again, I would have used it to oust senators by moving voters en masse in the region, and then started a recall election because "inactivity" or an another reason.

[Vern]

I don't like the requirement of 50% turnout. It is hard to get people to turn out for elections. I wonder if we could get that dropped to like 35% or 40%. Because let us be real here, a lot of voters are only going to vote on Presidential, House and Senate races, and that after you send the 10 pms.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't like the requirement of 50% turnout. It is hard to get people to turn out for elections. I wonder if we could get that dropped to like 35% or 40%. Because let us be real here, a lot of voters are only going to vote on Presidential, House and Senate races, and that after you send the 10 pms.

Lowering the threshold is dangerous because of the criminal element as demonstrated in this thread.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would also point out that Rimjob took advantage of a pro-regional reform pushed by Maroduke, which regionalized the manner of administering regional amendment ratification, thus allowing them to opt for regional legislative approval.

There will also be hostile elements, seeking to cheat the system.

Strategic Registration has at various points crippled this game, typically via the Pacific by pulling out dissident residents to supply the numbers to go after another region. Most every example of such, has almost always involved pulling people from the West and this is one of many factors as to why the Pacific and subsequently Fremont has always struggled, since they are frequently the ones being strip mined.

If such were to be attempted again, on the scale Windjammer describes, I would aggressively push for harsh criminal penalties for the ring leaders and move restrictions.

[windjammer]

I would also point out that Rimjob took advantage of a pro-regional reform pushed by Maroduke, which regionalized the manner of administering regional amendment ratification, thus allowing them to opt for regional legislative approval.

There will also be hostile elements, seeking to cheat the system.

Strategic Registration has at various points crippled this game, typically via the Pacific by pulling out dissident residents to supply the numbers to go after another region. Most every example of such, has almost always involved pulling people from the West and this is one of many factors as to why the Pacific and subsequently Fremont has always struggled, since they are frequently the ones being strip mined.

If such were to be attempted again, on the scale Windjammer describes, I would aggressively push for harsh criminal penalties for the ring leaders and move restrictions.

Except that this is not a crime to recall a senator.

Seriously Yankee I suspect that you will vote for it but REMEMBER WHAT I DID TO THE MIDEAST. Imagine what could be done with this amendment.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would also point out that Rimjob took advantage of a pro-regional reform pushed by Maroduke, which regionalized the manner of administering regional amendment ratification, thus allowing them to opt for regional legislative approval.

There will also be hostile elements, seeking to cheat the system.

Strategic Registration has at various points crippled this game, typically via the Pacific by pulling out dissident residents to supply the numbers to go after another region. Most every example of such, has almost always involved pulling people from the West and this is one of many factors as to why the Pacific and subsequently Fremont has always struggled, since they are frequently the ones being strip mined.

If such were to be attempted again, on the scale Windjammer describes, I would aggressively push for harsh criminal penalties for the ring leaders and move restrictions.

Except that this is not a crime to recall a senator.

Seriously Yankee I suspect that you will vote for it but REMEMBER WHAT I DID TO THE MIDEAST. Imagine what could be done with this amendment.

The crime in this case would be orchestrating a mass strategic registration effort.

[windjammer]

I would also point out that Rimjob took advantage of a pro-regional reform pushed by Maroduke, which regionalized the manner of administering regional amendment ratification, thus allowing them to opt for regional legislative approval.

There will also be hostile elements, seeking to cheat the system.

Strategic Registration has at various points crippled this game, typically via the Pacific by pulling out dissident residents to supply the numbers to go after another region. Most every example of such, has almost always involved pulling people from the West and this is one of many factors as to why the Pacific and subsequently Fremont has always struggled, since they are frequently the ones being strip mined.

If such were to be attempted again, on the scale Windjammer describes, I would aggressively push for harsh criminal penalties for the ring leaders and move restrictions.

Except that this is not a crime to recall a senator.

Seriously Yankee I suspect that you will vote for it but REMEMBER WHAT I DID TO THE MIDEAST. Imagine what could be done with this amendment.

The crime in this case would be orchestrating a mass strategic registration effort.

We both know it's Never going to be a "crime".

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would also point out that Rimjob took advantage of a pro-regional reform pushed by Maroduke, which regionalized the manner of administering regional amendment ratification, thus allowing them to opt for regional legislative approval.

There will also be hostile elements, seeking to cheat the system.

Strategic Registration has at various points crippled this game, typically via the Pacific by pulling out dissident residents to supply the numbers to go after another region. Most every example of such, has almost always involved pulling people from the West and this is one of many factors as to why the Pacific and subsequently Fremont has always struggled, since they are frequently the ones being strip mined.

If such were to be attempted again, on the scale Windjammer describes, I would aggressively push for harsh criminal penalties for the ring leaders and move restrictions.

Except that this is not a crime to recall a senator.

Seriously Yankee I suspect that you will vote for it but REMEMBER WHAT I DID TO THE MIDEAST. Imagine what could be done with this amendment.

The crime in this case would be orchestrating a mass strategic registration effort.

We both know it's Never going to be a "crime".

It's a dangerous thing to say never in this game.