Day Care

[nclib]

What is your opinion of day care?

Is it good for the children?

Is it good for the parents?

I think day care in general is good. It exposes kids to the real world and allows both parents to work.

[dazzleman]

I think there's good day care and bad day care.  It may have certain benefits in certain cases, but in most cases, I think children are better off cared for by a parent in the preschool years.

A child of 2 does not need exposure to the "real world" per se, though a child needs social exposure at the earliest possible age.  However, day care if not required in order to provide this.  Stay-at-home parents can arrange for social activities also.

Much day care is of poor quality.  In general, it is a low-paying job.  Young children are very impressionable, and their potential cognitive abilities are formed to a large extent in the preschool years.  A committed parent will usually do a better job than a minimum wage day care worker in making sure a child develops good learning potential.

Whether day care versus staying home with a child is the best option is really a personal decision of the couple.  For many couples, having one parent stay home is the best option, but in some cases, the parent may not be tempermentally suited for this, or finances may not allow it.  But I don't think that both parents working is a good thing in and of itself.  Working is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

The job of raising kids cannot be subcontracted out to day care.  A working parent will have to do a lot of his/her parenting job after work hours, even with day care.  The two-career lifestyle is a stressful and hectic one, day care notwithstanding.

[Everett]

As a young child, I didn't need to be put in daycare because my mom stayed at home. Although people oftentimes mindlessly criticise(d) her decision because they assume, without even knowing how I turned out, that I was kept away from other children, there was some need. I have a problem with my immune system that kept me sick throughout most of my childhood; I doubt that most parents would approve of their youngsters being exposed to a constantly ill person. I have a very good relationship with my mother to this day, which I am thankful for. I don't have anything against daycares, though I would hypothetically stay home (or arrange for my spouse to stay home) with my children if I ever had any...

[phk]

They are positive, the main purpose of day-care should be to start making out-of-family friends as soon as possible.

Helps get ready for K-1.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Strongly, strongly negative.

Day care is destructive and dangerous to the lives of children and, IMHO, one of the worst societal flaws of the past 40 years.  If you really care about restoring the nuclear family, you won't worry about what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms and you'll start worrying about the critical lack of parenting that is going on out there.

You do not need day care to meet other children and learn social skills.  Perhaps those of us who spend our lives on this forum might not be aware of it, but there is this thing called "outside" where children can play and learn social skills.  Kids have been doing it for millenia and I think the human race has done just fine since then.

I know some of my fellow conservative friends cringe at some of my economic beliefs -- but I believe what I believe because the economy we have now is destroying the American family bit by bit.  As far as I am concerned, the stay-at-home-mom/dad is the most honorable and productive profession one can aspire to.  We need an economic system that promotes the family and encourages at least one member of the familiy to stay home to raise our next generation.  Otherwise, the building blocks of our civilization will crumble beneath our feet.

Day care is a last resort.   It is the modern version of the orphanage.  As the child of a single father, I have deep sympathy for people in financial situations that preclude them from staying at home with their kids and would not condemn the actions of responsible single parents.  But If a parent chooses it if they could otherwise stay at home, they are neglecting the welfare of their children.

[??????????]

Excellent post Don.

[John Dibble]

Day care has both ups and downs. I myself have attended about three different day care centers, and my godfather married a woman who runs her own last year. Ultimately, it's somewhat dependent upon the individual center. I'll describe my own three experiences in as much detail as I remember.

First off, during my first couple years of life, my mom was mostly stay at home(she was also earning a degree in computer science, her second degree, at the time). When I became a toddler, I was enrolled in a pre-school type daycare. I remember the least about this one, but I do remember that I enjoyed it for the most part. If I remember correctly, it was in or related to a church(though my family was never very religious).

The second one was when I was in elementary school. In fact, it was right next to my school, which is why I assume it was chosen. I did like it there a lot - it was nothing fancy, typical daycare with a playground, and occassionally we'd be allowed to bring our Nintendo games to play. It was medium in size, but there were enough caregivers to keep up with all the children. Overall I'd say this was a very good experience. My mom ended up withdrawing me because she says I often had cuts and whatnot after coming home - it didn't have to do with bullying or anything of the like(though I am assuming she might have thought so), and I don't particularly remember having those cuts myself, but I would assume they were from all the playing on the playground I did.

The third was the one I don't have very fond memories of - this was a big, big daycare center. In terms of facilities, it was very nice. A smaller playground for the toddler types, a larger one complete with a huge amount of 'yard', and a swimming pool for in the summer as well. But, I didn't really like the caregivers(tended to be older women with bitter attitudes) and they took in far more kids than they really could handle now that I think about it. All the facilities may have been nice, but it's difficult to keep up with that many children, especially in the large back yard area where the older kids played, and as a result there was a good deal of trouble making and the occassional bullying going on.

And, just so you know, my godfather's wife runs a small one in her house - maybe 8 kids under her care, no more than that. I have no personal experience with it, but my understanding is that she does a very good job of it.

So, all in all, I'd say that larger day care facilities I'd have a more negative opinion, but smaller ones that can give more individual attention are much better since they give a much better quality of service.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Very positive.

My mother used to do day care as her job (when I lived on the Reservation). I didn't see anything wrong with it, she was treating the kids fine. Plus it allowed her to be home more often with me and my brothers.

[Beet]

Don's views are a bit extreme. I do not believe that a child in day care is equivalent to a child that simply does not have any parent or guardian at all. Nor do I believe that a family that does not have a stay-at-home parent will necessarily be destroyed, or that civilization will necessarily collapse if everyone does not choose to be a stay-at-home parent. Nor do I believe that day care is inherently destructive to the lives of children. There is no simple formula that can guarantee the success--or indeed failure, of any child. There are however some core guiding principles that on the whole make for a successful citizen, and these are seemingly abstract factors including instilled personal discipline, a compass of values, and a community of support. The modern nuclear family is not an island and was never intended to be an island. This requires in my view a well-established community with a solid and constructive culture.

[Ebowed]

Generally negative.

[opebo]

What is your opinion of day care?

Is it good for the children?

Is it good for the parents?

I think day care in general is good. It exposes kids to the real world and allows both parents to work.

Day care is generally the result of the dimunition of wages brought about by the owning class through political means.  Wages should be set high enough so that one person may provide for the entire family.  For example a minimum wage of $15/hour plus benefits, and full unionization and wages of at least $25-45/hour for all 'breadwinners'.  Of course I think it is a good idea to encourage males to stay home and women to work, if possible, to reduce the historical oppression of females.

That said, there is nothing inherently wrong with day care, I just don't like that it has been forced upon the working classes by their betters.

[John Dibble]

What is your opinion of day care?

Is it good for the children?

Is it good for the parents?

I think day care in general is good. It exposes kids to the real world and allows both parents to work.

Day care is generally the result of the dimunition of wages brought about by the owning class through political means.  Wages should be set high enough so that one person may provide for the entire family.  For example a minimum wage of $15/hour plus benefits, and full unionization and wages of at least $25-45/hour for all 'breadwinners'.

Yeah, a crushed economy will REALLY make things easier on people. You really need to get a clue about economics.

[Giant Saguaro]

Generally negative, especially if people are putting kids there just because it is convenient and not because they have no other choice. I realize in some instances there isn't a choice, so what else is one to do? But for people who put kids there because it's convenient or because they'd rather do other things, they're pushing their kids off on other people and are not accepting their responsibility, IMO. A child then becomes something that's just worked into someone's schedule, whether it be mom / dad or the good folks at day care. And for raising a child, wrong answer. It doesn't take a community to raise a kid, it takes two loving parents or one loving parent to the best of his / her ability. And if it's necessary, then it's necessary, but if not, I don't like day cares.

I know a number of people who, early in their careers, one sacrificed quite a bit to stay home with a child and I can't think of one couple that is sorry they did.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Depends

[WalterMitty]

day care is great.

the only problem is that the working class cant afford it (especially if they have multiple kids)

we need more federal and state involvement in day care.  it is a good investment.  1.  it is good for children  2. it would help move many poors into the workforce if they had a place for their brood to stay.

corporations need to do their part also in providing day care for the children of their employees.

[??????????]

day care is great.

the only problem is that the working class cant afford it (especially if they have multiple kids)

we need more federal and state involvement in day care.  it is a good investment.  1.  it is good for children  2. it would help move many poors into the workforce if they had a place for their brood to stay.

corporations need to do their part also in providing day care for the children of their employees.

The way we do it is when I work my wife is home with the youngest while the oldest is off at school and on my days off my wife works. That way we never have to use a day care which around here runs about 250 a week for 2 children.

[J-Mann]

It does depend on the situation and the provider, of course, but generally I see day care as a negative thing, mostly because we're inventing day care where it really doesn't exist nowadays, ie: in classrooms, preschools, playdates, etc.

Far too many parents today view their children as a burden rather than a blessing.  They're willing to send them to preschool when they're two or three years old, not because it enriches the kids' lives, but because it's an easy form of day care for the parent.  Many parents are content to let television do the parenting, or a teacher take care of their children, rather than putting forth the effort required to be a decent parent.

[dazzleman]

It does depend on the situation and the provider, of course, but generally I see day care as a negative thing, mostly because we're inventing day care where it really doesn't exist nowadays, ie: in classrooms, preschools, playdates, etc.

Far too many parents today view their children as a burden rather than a blessing.  They're willing to send them to preschool when they're two or three years old, not because it enriches the kids' lives, but because it's an easy form of day care for the parent.  Many parents are content to let television do the parenting, or a teacher take care of their children, rather than putting forth the effort required to be a decent parent.

Very good comments as always J-Mann. 

I find that many of the "day care is wonderful" type people have no idea what raising kids is really all about.  They think of it as simply babysitting, as in keeping them occupied and from playing in the street for a few hours.  There seems to be little appreciation from these people of how much time goes into teaching kids about life, providing guidance, character development, etc.  This is something that must be done primarily by parents, and if they're never around or around very little, their kids are going to be at a big deficit.

I'm not suggesting that it is impossible to do these things if both parents work and the kid is in day care.  But the need for it should be recognized, and the pro-day care feminist types generally do not recognize this need.

[Beet]

It does depend on the situation and the provider, of course, but generally I see day care as a negative thing, mostly because we're inventing day care where it really doesn't exist nowadays, ie: in classrooms, preschools, playdates, etc.

Far too many parents today view their children as a burden rather than a blessing.  They're willing to send them to preschool when they're two or three years old, not because it enriches the kids' lives, but because it's an easy form of day care for the parent.  Many parents are content to let television do the parenting, or a teacher take care of their children, rather than putting forth the effort required to be a decent parent.

Very good comments as always J-Mann. 

I find that many of the "day care is wonderful" type people have no idea what raising kids is really all about.  They think of it as simply babysitting, as in keeping them occupied and from playing in the street for a few hours.  There seems to be little appreciation from these people of how much time goes into teaching kids about life, providing guidance, character development, etc.  This is something that must be done primarily by parents, and if they're never around or around very little, their kids are going to be at a big deficit.

I'm not suggesting that it is impossible to do these things if both parents work and the kid is in day care.  But the need for it should be recognized, and the pro-day care feminist types generally do not recognize this need.

I disagree. You could call me a "pro-feminist day care type" but I do recognize the need. After all, though not all of us have been on the giving end we have all been on the receiving end.

[dazzleman]

I disagree. You could call me a "pro-feminist day care type" but I do recognize the need. After all, though not all of us have been on the giving end we have all been on the receiving end.

Actually not everybody has been on the receiving end, and that is part of the problem.  The other is that most people, when they were on the receiving end, never realized what a difficult job it is.

As I said, putting your kids in day care does not preclude being a good parent.  But J-Mann did make valid points about the motivations some people have for putting their kids in day care.  And being overly occupied with work does make it more difficult to be a good parent, all other things being equal.

Good day care does not equal good parenting, and I do have a disagreement with people who imply that it does.

[J-Mann]

Very good comments as always J-Mann. 

I find that many of the "day care is wonderful" type people have no idea what raising kids is really all about.  They think of it as simply babysitting, as in keeping them occupied and from playing in the street for a few hours.  There seems to be little appreciation from these people of how much time goes into teaching kids about life, providing guidance, character development, etc.  This is something that must be done primarily by parents, and if they're never around or around very little, their kids are going to be at a big deficit.

I'm not suggesting that it is impossible to do these things if both parents work and the kid is in day care.  But the need for it should be recognized, and the pro-day care feminist types generally do not recognize this need.

Good points.  Also, I really resent the prevailing notion that schools are becoming more and more responsible for taking care of children in the ways of watching them during the day and feeding them, but they are stripped of the ability to teach basic and universal morality as well as adequately discipline children.

[dazzleman]

Very good comments as always J-Mann. 

I find that many of the "day care is wonderful" type people have no idea what raising kids is really all about.  They think of it as simply babysitting, as in keeping them occupied and from playing in the street for a few hours.  There seems to be little appreciation from these people of how much time goes into teaching kids about life, providing guidance, character development, etc.  This is something that must be done primarily by parents, and if they're never around or around very little, their kids are going to be at a big deficit.

I'm not suggesting that it is impossible to do these things if both parents work and the kid is in day care.  But the need for it should be recognized, and the pro-day care feminist types generally do not recognize this need.

Good points.  Also, I really resent the prevailing notion that schools are becoming more and more responsible for taking care of children in the ways of watching them during the day and feeding them, but they are stripped of the ability to teach basic and universal morality as well as adequately discipline children.

Absolutely.  Some people want schools to take on more and more responsibility that belongs to the parents, but want to strip them of any ability to discipline or socialize the kids as was done in the past.  It's a very bad trend.

[Beet]

I disagree. You could call me a "pro-feminist day care type" but I do recognize the need. After all, though not all of us have been on the giving end we have all been on the receiving end.

Actually not everybody has been on the receiving end, and that is part of the problem.

Well, we all received something, whether that something is more defined by lack of substance than otherwise, and we all draw own personal lessons from that (hopefully, though most people by adulthood I think have a good grasp of the circumstances of their upbringing and those things which were important for, or missing from, it).

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This is true, especially for younger people, though most people as they grow older gradually realize this even if they haven't necessarily been parents before.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Which is why day care is helpful. But it really depends how you define "good parent". I define a good parent as someone who fulfills whatever role is necessary to bring up a child in a physically and mentally healthy way. If day care can help the parent fulfill this role, while by working the parent can improve the financial status of the family, I would not say they have been any worse of a parent than one that stayed at home; depending on the importance of finances and how skilled they are at integrating their child into a community of peers, they might be a better one. As for parents who put their kids in day care or other activities simply to take off a burden, this is a tragic situation, but the problem lies in their general attitude towards childrearing and would manifest itself regardless of the availability of day care.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good day care, like good education, does not replace good parenting (nor was it ever meant to), though it can complement it... and as such it works best when there is a strong overlap between the day care activities and the parent: the day care is located in a community where the family lives; the other children in the day care are the same children the child does or will attend school with; the values and culture created in the day care is compatible with the family and community's. This allows the day care to fulfill a certain extra-familial, community-building role, which can also be fulfilled, though not always, by other institutions: church groups, close neighborhoods, and non-day care afterschool activities.

[dazzleman]

thefactor, I can't disagree with anything you say, really.  I would just point out that many of those who are most favorable toward day care do consider it a substitute, rather than a supplement, for good parenting, and are generally in favor of subcontracting parental responsibilities from the home to institutions like schools, day care centers, etc.  I view this as a very negative thing.

These are the same people who think fathers should simply send a support check every month.  Their view of parenting is very limited and distorted, to say the least.

This doesn't mean that good day care is not sometimes the best solution for certain kids.  But I am just very very wary of the "day care" lobby.

[Beet]

thefactor, I can't disagree with anything you say, really.  I would just point out that many of those who are most favorable toward day care do consider it a substitute, rather than a supplement, for good parenting, and are generally in favor of subcontracting parental responsibilities from the home to institutions like schools, day care centers, etc.  I view this as a very negative thing.

These are the same people who think fathers should simply send a support check every month.  Their view of parenting is very limited and distorted, to say the least.

This doesn't mean that good day care is not sometimes the best solution for certain kids.  But I am just very very wary of the "day care" lobby.

Well I don't disagree with these points, either, though it's not as simple as a difference between theory and practice. On the whole, there is a cultural issue of responsibility that has plagued this country and is responsible for a huge part of support for social conservatism. It arises from the explosion of consumerism and changes in people's psychologies due to such large increases in wealth. Culture needs to adjust to this, and it's taking a while (though some progress is being made) but this adjustment can't just be a wholesale backlash against social progress.