Politico: Florida dems unload on sanders in Venezuela controversy, Shalala angry

[lfromnj]

3 barely DeSantis/Scott seats sounds like a recipe for a dummymander if the Cuban vote ever collapses again, which as noted it did in 2016 and there's no reason it couldn't again. Imagine if Biden's outreach to the Cuban community for the next four years goes well and/or Maduro is ousted.

It could but they don't have a choice much like the NH gop in 2012.

[vileplume]

3 barely DeSantis/Scott seats sounds like a recipe for a dummymander if the Cuban vote ever collapses again, which as noted it did in 2016 and there's no reason it couldn't again. Imagine if Biden's outreach to the Cuban community for the next four years goes well and/or Maduro is ousted.

They're not all barely. The 29th is narrow and would be somewhat competitive depending on what happens with the Cuban vote, but Trump would have won it clearly. The 26th is decisively GOP however and wouldn't be competitive whilst the Scott/DeSantis won the 27th by 9ish so it's not exactly narrow either. The 28th is a Dem vote sink that they'd win by 40+.

[Devils30]

3 barely DeSantis/Scott seats sounds like a recipe for a dummymander if the Cuban vote ever collapses again, which as noted it did in 2016 and there's no reason it couldn't again. Imagine if Biden's outreach to the Cuban community for the next four years goes well and/or Maduro is ousted.

They're not all barely. The 29th is narrow and would be somewhat competitive depending on what happens with the Cuban vote, but Trump would have won it clearly. The 26th is decisively GOP however and wouldn't be competitive whilst the Scott/DeSantis won the 27th by 9ish so it's not exactly narrow either. The 28th is a Dem vote sink that they'd win by 40+.

28 and 29 sound like Orlando and Tampa area seats based on population. Can't see anything additional coming to Miami.

[jimrtex]

Trump ran on “muh socialism”, all the polling data showed Biden had weak Hispanic support in Florida because “muh socialism” attacks, democratic operations on the ground were saying they were getting hit hard over “muh socialism”, and the group that swung to Trump the hardest (Cubans) are notorious on their views of “muh socialism”. But right it was probably about the 94 crime bill

This argument relies on a lack of appreciation for the diversity of groups clustered under the label of "Hispanic". Dade County swung hard to Trump, sure, but the second and third-largest swings in the state were in Osceola and Hendry. Osceola is all Puerto Ricans — U.S. citizens who have absolutely no reason to care about socialism. Hendry is Mexicans, who similarly have no reason to care about CASTROCHAVISMO.

Claiming that "all the polling data showed Biden had weak Hispanic support in Florida because "muh socialism" attacks" is just fundamentally false. There was a broader trend among lots of Hispanic groups that cannot be explained by their feelings about socialism. At worst, it cost Democrats a couple points with Cubans and Venezuelans on top of a broader and more important trend. Subtract Bernie & AOC, maybe you cut the margin in Dade a bit, but you still lose the state because of swings to Trump among both Cuban and non-Cuban Hispanic voters.

Remember that the Governor of Puerto Rico endorsed President Trump, largely because he was trying to repatriate pharmaceutical production from China to the United States and Puerto Rico.

[VBM]

It's crazy how big a deal they made of Bernie being terrible for Florida and yet they bombed so hard with "electable" Biden instead. Good riddance to Shalala.

As someone who loves Bernie and back in January wanted him to win I don’t know how you can look at what happened across the board and how Dems got killed in areas on “muh socialism” with Biden of all people on the top ballot and not conclude Bernie would have also lost and dragged the party down even more

Because Bernie wouldn’t let Republicans control the framing as easy as Biden did. Half of American voters know literally nothing about politics, so framing is super important for manipulating low info voters

[vileplume]

It's crazy how big a deal they made of Bernie being terrible for Florida and yet they bombed so hard with "electable" Biden instead. Good riddance to Shalala.

As someone who loves Bernie and back in January wanted him to win I don’t know how you can look at what happened across the board and how Dems got killed in areas on “muh socialism” with Biden of all people on the top ballot and not conclude Bernie would have also lost and dragged the party down even more

Because Bernie wouldn’t let Republicans control the framing as easy as Biden did. Half of American voters know literally nothing about politics, so framing is super important for manipulating low info voters

Bernie proudly describing himself as a socialist (incorrectly in my view, he's really a social democrat) would be doing the GOP's framing for them, at least as far as Florida is concerned.

I do actually think it's quite possible Bernie would have won the election due to him outrunning Biden's numbers in the rust belt. However I think it's pretty indisputable that he would have lost Florida by an even larger margin likely due to him losing Miami-Dade outright, Palm Beach being within 10 and failing to match the pro-Biden swing both in Central Florida retirement areas like Sumter County or in military influenced areas like Duval and Okaloosa.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Why is it so hard for them to just say they're an FDR Democrat or something? Americans hate the term "socialism" and are conditioned from a young age to hate or be skeptical of the government.

Go with something that people know and are comfortable with, keep relating your ideas back to things like Social Security that are popular instead of bringing up all the Cold War hang ups that Americans have. Voters are small-c conservatives who are skeptical of change, so talk about your politics as being normal, mundane things that will support people in their everyday lives and are normal in American history but have just gotten off track over the past few decades. Americans love freedom so keep relating your policies back to enabling people to live free lives.

And don't be afraid to use a sort of soft nationalism to dress up your policies ("Make America Great Again", but for reviving unions, a fair tax code, and getting people healthcare); use America's national myths to your advantage and utilize nostalgia to get older voters on board with you.

[Badger]

It's crazy how big a deal they made of Bernie being terrible for Florida and yet they bombed so hard with "electable" Biden instead. Good riddance to Shalala.

As someone who loves Bernie and back in January wanted him to win I don’t know how you can look at what happened across the board and how Dems got killed in areas on “muh socialism” with Biden of all people on the top ballot and not conclude Bernie would of lost and dragged the party down even more

You don't lose during a pandemic because of "muh socialism", you lose for other reasons.

Trump ran on “muh socialism”, all the polling data showed Biden had weak Hispanic support in Florida because “muh socialism” attacks, democratic operations on the ground were saying they were getting hit hard over “muh socialism”, and the group that swung to Trump the hardest (Cubans) are notorious on their views of “muh socialism”. But right it was probably about the 94 crime bill 🙄

None of that had anything to do with Bernie.

Yes, it did. The rise of Bernie and AOC as prominent figures in the party made Biden and other Democrats more vulnerable to those attacks.

If neoliberals can't figure out how to win, that's their own damn fault.

"Neoliberals"

This coming from a guy who still pissed off at Obama 10 times as much as he is Republicans for not enough getting accomplished during the Obama Administration.

What a weak argument. Give it a rest, dude.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It's crazy how big a deal they made of Bernie being terrible for Florida and yet they bombed so hard with "electable" Biden instead. Good riddance to Shalala.

As someone who loves Bernie and back in January wanted him to win I don’t know how you can look at what happened across the board and how Dems got killed in areas on “muh socialism” with Biden of all people on the top ballot and not conclude Bernie would of lost and dragged the party down even more

You don't lose during a pandemic because of "muh socialism", you lose for other reasons.

Trump ran on “muh socialism”, all the polling data showed Biden had weak Hispanic support in Florida because “muh socialism” attacks, democratic operations on the ground were saying they were getting hit hard over “muh socialism”, and the group that swung to Trump the hardest (Cubans) are notorious on their views of “muh socialism”. But right it was probably about the 94 crime bill 🙄

None of that had anything to do with Bernie.

Yes, it did. The rise of Bernie and AOC as prominent figures in the party made Biden and other Democrats more vulnerable to those attacks.

If neoliberals can't figure out how to win, that's their own damn fault.

"Neoliberals"

This coming from a guy who still pissed off at Obama 10 times as much as he is Republicans for not enough getting accomplished during the Obama Administration.

What a weak argument. Give it a rest, dude.

Obama took us from bombing 4 countries to 7, pushed hard for TPP, tried to get the grand bargain passed, and lost 63 House seats in 2010 after waging war against progressives. Obama did everything he could to stop Bernie. Obama has made it clear that he fights the left harder than he fights Republicans. Trump is President only because of him.

[Badger]

It's crazy how big a deal they made of Bernie being terrible for Florida and yet they bombed so hard with "electable" Biden instead. Good riddance to Shalala.

As someone who loves Bernie and back in January wanted him to win I don’t know how you can look at what happened across the board and how Dems got killed in areas on “muh socialism” with Biden of all people on the top ballot and not conclude Bernie would of lost and dragged the party down even more

You don't lose during a pandemic because of "muh socialism", you lose for other reasons.

Trump ran on “muh socialism”, all the polling data showed Biden had weak Hispanic support in Florida because “muh socialism” attacks, democratic operations on the ground were saying they were getting hit hard over “muh socialism”, and the group that swung to Trump the hardest (Cubans) are notorious on their views of “muh socialism”. But right it was probably about the 94 crime bill 🙄

None of that had anything to do with Bernie.

Yes, it did. The rise of Bernie and AOC as prominent figures in the party made Biden and other Democrats more vulnerable to those attacks.

If neoliberals can't figure out how to win, that's their own damn fault.

"Neoliberals"

This coming from a guy who still pissed off at Obama 10 times as much as he is Republicans for not enough getting accomplished during the Obama Administration.

What a weak argument. Give it a rest, dude.

Obama took us from bombing 4 countries to 7, pushed hard for TPP, tried to get the grand bargain passed, and lost 63 House seats in 2010 after waging war against progressives. Obama did everything he could to stop Bernie. Obama has made it clear that he fights the left harder than he fights Republicans. Trump is President only because of him.

Wow, there's so much raw stupidity in that post I'm not even going to begin.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Why is it so hard for them to just say they're an FDR Democrat or something? Americans hate the term "socialism" and are conditioned from a young age to hate or be skeptical of the government.

Go with something that people know and are comfortable with, keep relating your ideas back to things like Social Security that are popular instead of bringing up all the Cold War hang ups that Americans have. Voters are small-c conservatives who are skeptical of change, so talk about your politics as being normal, mundane things that will support people in their everyday lives and are normal in American history but have just gotten off track over the past few decades. Americans love freedom so keep relating your policies back to enabling people to live free lives.

And don't be afraid to use a sort of soft nationalism to dress up your policies ("Make America Great Again", but for reviving unions, a fair tax code, and getting people healthcare); use America's national myths to your advantage and utilize nostalgia to get older voters on board with you.

Too many progressives are concerned about being "morally correct/pure" instead of getting the right message across.

Terms like "social democrat", "welfare capitalist", "reform capitalist", etc are MUCH better and more accurate than "socialist" or "democratic socialist"

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Why is it so hard for them to just say they're an FDR Democrat or something? Americans hate the term "socialism" and are conditioned from a young age to hate or be skeptical of the government.

Go with something that people know and are comfortable with, keep relating your ideas back to things like Social Security that are popular instead of bringing up all the Cold War hang ups that Americans have. Voters are small-c conservatives who are skeptical of change, so talk about your politics as being normal, mundane things that will support people in their everyday lives and are normal in American history but have just gotten off track over the past few decades. Americans love freedom so keep relating your policies back to enabling people to live free lives.

And don't be afraid to use a sort of soft nationalism to dress up your policies ("Make America Great Again", but for reviving unions, a fair tax code, and getting people healthcare); use America's national myths to your advantage and utilize nostalgia to get older voters on board with you.

Too many progressives are concerned about being "morally correct/pure" instead of getting the right message across.

Terms like "social democrat", "welfare capitalist", "reform capitalist", etc are MUCH better and more accurate than "socialist" or "democratic socialist"

Bernie should have just said he was a social democrat, but that wouldn't have made sh**tty neoliberals like Shalala any less upset at him.

[MARGINS6729]

Trump ran on “muh socialism”, all the polling data showed Biden had weak Hispanic support in Florida because “muh socialism” attacks, democratic operations on the ground were saying they were getting hit hard over “muh socialism”, and the group that swung to Trump the hardest (Cubans) are notorious on their views of “muh socialism”. But right it was probably about the 94 crime bill

This argument relies on a lack of appreciation for the diversity of groups clustered under the label of "Hispanic". Dade County swung hard to Trump, sure, but the second and third-largest swings in the state were in Osceola and Hendry. Osceola is all Puerto Ricans — U.S. citizens who have absolutely no reason to care about socialism. Hendry is Mexicans, who similarly have no reason to care about CASTROCHAVISMO.

Claiming that "all the polling data showed Biden had weak Hispanic support in Florida because "muh socialism" attacks" is just fundamentally false. There was a broader trend among lots of Hispanic groups that cannot be explained by their feelings about socialism. At worst, it cost Democrats a couple points with Cubans and Venezuelans on top of a broader and more important trend. Subtract Bernie & AOC, maybe you cut the margin in Dade a bit, but you still lose the state because of swings to Trump among both Cuban and non-Cuban Hispanic voters.

Regarding Osceola, Biden should have gotten out in front of Puerto Rico earlier- he did an Op-Ed about Trump's neglect of it but there was no policy plan listed on his website about Puerto Rico until September which frustrated people(although nobody reads the website any way lol). The GOP knows how to shave off it's losing margins amongst Puerto Ricans by courting Evangelicals, single issue abortion voters, etc while DEMs either start too late or make investments that aren't substantial enough to make a difference or both although COVID19 hampering ground game efforts hurt DEMs badly with Latinos and with everyone nationwide. The economy being so devastating to Latinos's livelihood is also a big reason why Latinos swung right. I also should point out that Osceola is not all Puerto Rican; there are Cuban, Venezuelan, Colombian, Nicaraguan, etc there as well as white people. Regarding Hendry County, my impression is that the majority of Mexicans are undocumented immigrants who can't vote so I would  need more info on the precincts there to determine if Mexican Americans actually swung right in Florida(a heavily Mexican area in Polk County flipped to Biden so I have my doubts). Democrats need to invest early and efficiently in the Hispanic communities in Florida.

[Person Man]

Why is it so hard for them to just say they're an FDR Democrat or something? Americans hate the term "socialism" and are conditioned from a young age to hate or be skeptical of the government.

Go with something that people know and are comfortable with, keep relating your ideas back to things like Social Security that are popular instead of bringing up all the Cold War hang ups that Americans have. Voters are small-c conservatives who are skeptical of change, so talk about your politics as being normal, mundane things that will support people in their everyday lives and are normal in American history but have just gotten off track over the past few decades. Americans love freedom so keep relating your policies back to enabling people to live free lives.

And don't be afraid to use a sort of soft nationalism to dress up your policies ("Make America Great Again", but for reviving unions, a fair tax code, and getting people healthcare); use America's national myths to your advantage and utilize nostalgia to get older voters on board with you.

Too many progressives are concerned about being "morally correct/pure" instead of getting the right message across.

Terms like "social democrat", "welfare capitalist", "reform capitalist", etc are MUCH better and more accurate than "socialist" or "democratic socialist"

Better. Say you’re a Democrat.

[Storebought]

I don't quite get why Democrats are so enamored of the word "socialist", especially as it has practically no meaning in the context of US politics.

If Democrats (say) favor a universal health care system, then campaign on the benefits of a universal health care system, and not muddy the waters with empty rhetoric about socialism since it doesn't mean anything to anyone who isn't an immigrant from Vietnam or Latin America, who -- every one of them -- hates it anyway.

[American2020]

https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1330397060592529408

https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1330399722247491585

https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1330410882904584193

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Why is it so hard for them to just say they're an FDR Democrat or something? Americans hate the term "socialism" and are conditioned from a young age to hate or be skeptical of the government.

Go with something that people know and are comfortable with, keep relating your ideas back to things like Social Security that are popular instead of bringing up all the Cold War hang ups that Americans have. Voters are small-c conservatives who are skeptical of change, so talk about your politics as being normal, mundane things that will support people in their everyday lives and are normal in American history but have just gotten off track over the past few decades. Americans love freedom so keep relating your policies back to enabling people to live free lives.

And don't be afraid to use a sort of soft nationalism to dress up your policies ("Make America Great Again", but for reviving unions, a fair tax code, and getting people healthcare); use America's national myths to your advantage and utilize nostalgia to get older voters on board with you.

Too many progressives are concerned about being "morally correct/pure" instead of getting the right message across.

Terms like "social democrat", "welfare capitalist", "reform capitalist", etc are MUCH better and more accurate than "socialist" or "democratic socialist"

Better. Say you’re a Democrat.

True but to some progressives, the word "Democrat" is considered a negative label lol.

[Bomster]

https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1330397060592529408

https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1330399722247491585

https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1330410882904584193

Ah no wonder he rigged the election for Joe Biden /s