Joe Biden 2020 campaign megathread

[Mr. Smith]

Your post is very interesting though because I had never considered Biden's risk-aversion with Medicare for All being related to the backlash from Obamacare which he would have experienced more than anyone else in the race. That's a really keen observation.

He was also around for the backlash to Hillarycare in the 90s.

The big takeaway from both of these political fights is that people are really adverse to any major change to the healthcare system, no matter how much they think the current system sucks. Biden's approach makes a ton of sense (to be fair, Mayor Pete has also said the same thing), just make Medicare a public option and you are basically slipping in a single payer system through the backdoor with ease.

Is the goal not to ensure everyone has access to healthcare? Why then does it matter if that goal is achieved through an exclusively public or hybrid public/private system? And especially why does it have to be exclusively public immediately? Would a public option not be a massive step forward already? Do Germany and France not have extremely successful universal healthcare systems without single-payer?

I feel like some on the left are more concerned with busting up private health insurance, then actually getting universal coverage.

Once again, going with the public option should be worked towards, but if the media and GOP hear that, that won't be the result.

Obamacare aimed for less than that already, and the end result inevitably didn't have that public option in the end, because Lieberman and Snowe weren't Johnson'd into it. Nor could they since the resolve wasn't truly there.

Going all in at least moves the window that way to allow that backdoor to be put in.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Once again, going with the public option should be worked towards, but if the media and GOP hear that, that won't be the result.

Obamacare aimed for less than that already, and the end result inevitably didn't have that public option in the end, because Lieberman and Snowe weren't Johnson'd into it. Nor could they since the resolve wasn't truly there.

Going all in at least moves the window that way to allow that backdoor to be put in.

It's never been a matter of feasibility or pragmatics, it's a matter of narrative and keeping the plutocratic GOP on their toes by not compromising from the outset until they cave in some way towards it.

Is there any evidence that that strategy works? It's a huge motivating actor for proposing policy that is bad.

Another point that nobody considers in the "opening bid high to draw the other side down" is that if you promise things to people, and you don't give it to them, they will be disappointed and what they get instead will not be popular. That is also an overarching lesson from the Obama administration, no? If you campaign on ideologically motivated but bad policy with some weird winking subtext that it's all game theory you'll still end up with a huge faction of purists that want to implement your ideologically motivated but bad policy when you win.

And given how things went when Obama not only compromised, but pretty much gave the GOP everything on a platter, and they still rejected anyway...

It's rather unfortunate that the wrong lessons are being taken from the Obamacare backlash.

If the GOP has any power whatsoever (so basically 40 votes in the Senate unless the filibuster is abolished) then they will reject anything, especially including Medicare for All.

Do you have a response? Genuinely curious.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Biden’s strategy is clear in my opinion: Win over independents/moderates and suburban types who formerly voted Republican but are turned off by Trump. He’s already playing for the GE, he made that clear in his announcement video. This strategy works for the primary as well, however, because it can help consolidate moderate support around him while everyone else keeps one-upping each other over  how woke and left and pure progressive they are.

So no, of course he’s not going to say anything to alienate former GOP voters who are flirting with voting for him, or people who still believe in “both sides” nonsense, or moderate Dems who still make up much of the party. But do you think that means he actually believes the GOP will have an “epiphany” and suddenly be easy to work with? Of course not, he’s not naive or stupid. He was in the Senate for decades and he was VP as he watched every one of Obama’s attempts at reconciliation and compromise be obstructed left and right. He knows the GOP has gone off the deep end, with little hope of return any time soon. But he would be stupid to say so out loud.

I hope you're right about this and everything else you are getting from Biden's current campaigning strategies.

[Yank2133]

Once again, going with the public option should be worked towards, but if the media and GOP hear that, that won't be the result.

Obamacare aimed for less than that already, and the end result inevitably didn't have that public option in the end, because Lieberman and Snowe weren't Johnson'd into it. Nor could they since the resolve wasn't truly there.

Going all in at least moves the window that way to allow that backdoor to be put in.

When has that ever happen in politics?

All that would happen is that Manchin and Sinema, along with other Senate Dems kill it and you end up with nothing. It is a complete waste of time.

A public option polls well and it would pass a Democratic control congress with ease.

[Bidenworth2020]

Once again, going with the public option should be worked towards, but if the media and GOP hear that, that won't be the result.

Obamacare aimed for less than that already, and the end result inevitably didn't have that public option in the end, because Lieberman and Snowe weren't Johnson'd into it. Nor could they since the resolve wasn't truly there.

Going all in at least moves the window that way to allow that backdoor to be put in.

When has that ever happen in politics?

All that would happen is that Manchin and Sinema, along with other Senate Dems kill it and you end up with nothing. It is a complete waste of time.

A public option polls well and it would pass a Democratic control congress with ease.

Medicare-for-America is the way to go.

[GoTfan]

Once again, going with the public option should be worked towards, but if the media and GOP hear that, that won't be the result.

Obamacare aimed for less than that already, and the end result inevitably didn't have that public option in the end, because Lieberman and Snowe weren't Johnson'd into it. Nor could they since the resolve wasn't truly there.

Going all in at least moves the window that way to allow that backdoor to be put in.

When has that ever happen in politics?

All that would happen is that Manchin and Sinema, along with other Senate Dems kill it and you end up with nothing. It is a complete waste of time.

A public option polls well and it would pass a Democratic control congress with ease.

Medicare-for-America is the way to go.

God, I love these incrementalists. They're the same sort of people who would've argued that Lincoln was trying to move too fast in freeing slaves, or that Johnson was moving too fast with civil rights.

[The Mikado]

Once again, going with the public option should be worked towards, but if the media and GOP hear that, that won't be the result.

Obamacare aimed for less than that already, and the end result inevitably didn't have that public option in the end, because Lieberman and Snowe weren't Johnson'd into it. Nor could they since the resolve wasn't truly there.

Going all in at least moves the window that way to allow that backdoor to be put in.

When has that ever happen in politics?

All that would happen is that Manchin and Sinema, along with other Senate Dems kill it and you end up with nothing. It is a complete waste of time.

A public option polls well and it would pass a Democratic control congress with ease.

Medicare-for-America is the way to go.

God, I love these incrementalists. They're the same sort of people who would've argued that Lincoln was trying to move too fast in freeing slaves, or that Johnson was moving too fast with civil rights.

For the end consumer, how is "buy into Medicare" different in its outcome than single payer healthcare? In fact, doesn't letting everyone buy into Medicare achieve the promise the Medicare for All slogan promises?

[Yank2133]

Once again, going with the public option should be worked towards, but if the media and GOP hear that, that won't be the result.

Obamacare aimed for less than that already, and the end result inevitably didn't have that public option in the end, because Lieberman and Snowe weren't Johnson'd into it. Nor could they since the resolve wasn't truly there.

Going all in at least moves the window that way to allow that backdoor to be put in.

When has that ever happen in politics?

All that would happen is that Manchin and Sinema, along with other Senate Dems kill it and you end up with nothing. It is a complete waste of time.

A public option polls well and it would pass a Democratic control congress with ease.

Medicare-for-America is the way to go.

God, I love these incrementalists. They're the same sort of people who would've argued that Lincoln was trying to move too fast in freeing slaves, or that Johnson was moving too fast with civil rights.

For the end consumer, how is "buy into Medicare" different in its outcome than single payer healthcare? In fact, doesn't letting everyone buy into Medicare achieve the promise the Medicare for All slogan promises?

It is if your actually goal is universal coverage. But for some lefties, it is all about dunking on private insurance.

[Famous Mortimer]

Once again, going with the public option should be worked towards, but if the media and GOP hear that, that won't be the result.

Obamacare aimed for less than that already, and the end result inevitably didn't have that public option in the end, because Lieberman and Snowe weren't Johnson'd into it. Nor could they since the resolve wasn't truly there.

Going all in at least moves the window that way to allow that backdoor to be put in.

When has that ever happen in politics?

All that would happen is that Manchin and Sinema, along with other Senate Dems kill it and you end up with nothing. It is a complete waste of time.

A public option polls well and it would pass a Democratic control congress with ease.

Medicare-for-America is the way to go.

God, I love these incrementalists. They're the same sort of people who would've argued that Lincoln was trying to move too fast in freeing slaves, or that Johnson was moving too fast with civil rights.

For the end consumer, how is "buy into Medicare" different in its outcome than single payer healthcare? In fact, doesn't letting everyone buy into Medicare achieve the promise the Medicare for All slogan promises?

It is if your actually goal is universal coverage. But for some lefties, it is all about dunking on private insurance.

Single payer is paid for by taxes and Medicaid buy in is paid for by optional premiums.

Pretty big difference.

[GoTfan]

Once again, going with the public option should be worked towards, but if the media and GOP hear that, that won't be the result.

Obamacare aimed for less than that already, and the end result inevitably didn't have that public option in the end, because Lieberman and Snowe weren't Johnson'd into it. Nor could they since the resolve wasn't truly there.

Going all in at least moves the window that way to allow that backdoor to be put in.

When has that ever happen in politics?

All that would happen is that Manchin and Sinema, along with other Senate Dems kill it and you end up with nothing. It is a complete waste of time.

A public option polls well and it would pass a Democratic control congress with ease.

Medicare-for-America is the way to go.

God, I love these incrementalists. They're the same sort of people who would've argued that Lincoln was trying to move too fast in freeing slaves, or that Johnson was moving too fast with civil rights.

For the end consumer, how is "buy into Medicare" different in its outcome than single payer healthcare? In fact, doesn't letting everyone buy into Medicare achieve the promise the Medicare for All slogan promises?

My point is that incrementalist arguments fall off the rail at some point.

[brucejoel99]

Once again, going with the public option should be worked towards, but if the media and GOP hear that, that won't be the result.

Obamacare aimed for less than that already, and the end result inevitably didn't have that public option in the end, because Lieberman and Snowe weren't Johnson'd into it. Nor could they since the resolve wasn't truly there.

Going all in at least moves the window that way to allow that backdoor to be put in.

When has that ever happen in politics?

All that would happen is that Manchin and Sinema, along with other Senate Dems kill it and you end up with nothing. It is a complete waste of time.

A public option polls well and it would pass a Democratic control congress with ease.

Medicare-for-America is the way to go.

God, I love these incrementalists. They're the same sort of people who would've argued that Lincoln was trying to move too fast in freeing slaves, or that Johnson was moving too fast with civil rights.

For the end consumer, how is "buy into Medicare" different in its outcome than single payer healthcare? In fact, doesn't letting everyone buy into Medicare achieve the promise the Medicare for All slogan promises?

It is if your actually goal is universal coverage. But for some lefties, it is all about dunking on private insurance.

Single payer is paid for by taxes and Medicaid buy in is paid for by optional premiums.

Pretty big difference.

Not really, considering the tax one would pay for single payer is basically the equivalent of premiums, co-payments, & deductibles all rolled into one.

The argument here (which is correct) is that at the end of the day, a Medicare buy-in program is functionally the same for the end consumer as a fully single-payer system, as it allows people who want to keep their private insurance without having to have Medicare-for-All Medicare do so. The goal of actually getting universal coverage is achieved, & the only people who'd be unhappy are the leftists who only care about killing private health insurance.

[American2020]

https://twitter.com/laurenpeikoff/status/1128972729313636354

[American2020]

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1128972634304274437

[American2020]

Ultimately, Biden running for president offers voters a break from the noise, the turmoil, and the legislative stagnation of the Trump years. For the moment, that is a pretty convincing message for the electorate.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/443767-joe-biden-can-win-the-white-house

[American2020]

https://twitter.com/TheAtlantic/status/1129003005502787584

[Bidenworth2020]

Once again, going with the public option should be worked towards, but if the media and GOP hear that, that won't be the result.

Obamacare aimed for less than that already, and the end result inevitably didn't have that public option in the end, because Lieberman and Snowe weren't Johnson'd into it. Nor could they since the resolve wasn't truly there.

Going all in at least moves the window that way to allow that backdoor to be put in.

When has that ever happen in politics?

All that would happen is that Manchin and Sinema, along with other Senate Dems kill it and you end up with nothing. It is a complete waste of time.

A public option polls well and it would pass a Democratic control congress with ease.

Medicare-for-America is the way to go.

God, I love these incrementalists. They're the same sort of people who would've argued that Lincoln was trying to move too fast in freeing slaves, or that Johnson was moving too fast with civil rights.

From what I have read, Medicare for America is similar to single except it is tailored to the intricacies of the american system

[LabourJersey]

https://twitter.com/TheAtlantic/status/1129003005502787584

It's really, really too early to determine whether or not the pundits over or underestimated Joe Biden.

At least wait until the debates--if Biden does poorly than these takes are gone. If he does well than this discussion can be had

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1129065091599687680

The campaign of Liz
just have to cease
So Bernie can gain
and progressives prevail
 

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

https://twitter.com/laurenpeikoff/status/1128972729313636354

Pittsburgh would have been a better city to choose. I guess Philly has more people and is much closer to the Acela corridor cities like DC, NYC, and Boston.

[Gass3268]

https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1129065091599687680

The campaign of Liz
just have to cease
So Bernie can gain
and progressives prevail
 

Warren is my top choice, but I'd vote for Biden over Sanders.

[Gass3268]

This is the midset that has to be defeated in order for anyone else to beat Biden.

https://twitter.com/jerweber/status/1129048505455140865

[Xing]

This is the midset that has to be defeated in order for anyone else to beat Biden.

https://twitter.com/jerweber/status/1129048505455140865

The argument isn't that beating Trump isn't a priority, it's that we need a more detailed vision for the future than simply Trump not being president.

[American2020]

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1129347695922098177

[ProudModerate2]

This is the midset that has to be defeated in order for anyone else to beat Biden.

https://twitter.com/jerweber/status/1129048505455140865

The argument isn't that beating Trump isn't a priority, it's that we need a more detailed vision for the future than simply Trump not being president.

I, and many others, understand your position.
Don't get me wrong, there are some progressive (very liberal) positions and ideas that I support. But, this time around (2020) we (our entire nation) have a massive problem that is a priority .... defeating trump.
Think about it like this .... trump is cancer and is killing us. We need to act now to remove that cancer (we can not wait until 2024). All indications point to Biden as the best surgeon to restore our health, SO WE CAN ALL LIVE.

PS: Probably any other Rep president would not "be cancer," but just (at most be) a cold or a strong flu. What we have right now, is serious and deadly.

[GoTfan]

This is the midset that has to be defeated in order for anyone else to beat Biden.

https://twitter.com/jerweber/status/1129048505455140865

Yeah. Stupid lefties wanting a President who'll actually try to change things instead of doing nothing.