Ronald Reagan vs Menachem Begin

[OSR stands with Israel]

Both of them were very similar leaders but I would take Reagan because he did what Begin did but on a far bigger and global stage.

Economically Begin helped liberalize Israel's economy, Reagan you could argue helped usher not only the US but the entire world in an era of Neo-Liberalism.

On Foreign, Policy Begin had the Camp David Accords while Reagan had the INF Treaty


Both though are undoubtedly better than the current leaders of their nations who dont deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Reagan and Begin.

[courts]

begin

[Indy Texas]

The one who was not a member of a terrorist organization.

[Big Abraham]

The one that didn't invade Lebanon

[America Needs R'hllor]

I don't think they're all that similar. Begin's liberal economics were in the mold of Jabotinsky, the father of revisionist Zionism. Unlike the ultra conservative Reagan, Jabotinsky's ideology sees as the five basic rights a citizen needs to get in a normal country- food, a rooftop, clothes, education and healthcare. This is nothing like Reagan's extreme ideology that lacks any compassion.

My choice is, of course, Begin, a great leader who brought a very important peace agreement with Egypt. The Lebanon war was justified (anyone who's attacking him for trying to protect his people from terrorism can go bite it), but is the biggest stain on his legacy as it dragged on terribly.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I don't think they're all that similar. Begin's liberal economics were in the mold of Jabotinsky, the father of revisionist Zionism. Unlike the ultra conservative Reagan, Jabotinsky's ideology sees as the five basic rights a citizen needs to get in a normal country- food, a rooftop, clothes, education and healthcare. This is nothing like Reagan's extreme ideology that lacks any compassion.

My choice is, of course, Begin, a great leader who brought a very important peace agreement with Egypt. The Lebanon war was justified (anyone who's attacking him for trying to protect his people from terrorism can go bite it), but is the biggest stain on his legacy as it dragged on terribly.

Reagan was to the left of Thatcher  and Reagan today would be considered a Kasich or Romney Republican . Also Bill Clinton's economic policies from 1994 on were to the right of Reagan's as well.


Reagan was a Pragmatic Conservative , and the 1986 tax reform was an example of that when he raised the Capital Gains Tax Rate.

[DavidB.]

Reagan was sh**t apart from foreign policy. Begin was one of the greatest.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I don't see how the two were similar aside from being center-right to right leaning leaders.

They had vastly different life experiences. They came from very different worlds.

One was a happy warrior who felt empowered by a sense of historic destiny.

The other was a rigid personality fueled by the albatross of pain and oppression placed on his people.


Both clashed with each other on policy and personality when they shared the international stage together.


While ParrotGuy's shameless twisting of American conservatism is ridiculous, he is not wrong in saying that the two are different types of conservatives.

Though, I also find it amusing that the Israeli center-left tries to include Begin under their banner nowadays after demonizing him and calling him a fascist for the first 30 years of the country's existence.


I think both Reagan and Begin were massive FFs but for different reasons.


1) Reagan was the perfect leader for the western world towards the end of the cold war. As a young man he was an enemy of fascism and as a seasoned man in his later years he was an enemy of communism. I share the same political romanticism for American and American exceptionalism that Reagan shared. He believed in the goodness of the American people and the ultimately goodness of freedom and democracy. His love story with America became the love story that many Americans - especially immigrants from the former USSR -  adapted as apart of their own patriotic fabric. Easily one of the most impactful American historical figures on my world view. The most relevant to me as an American: He championed dissidents from the Soviet world. He helped Soviet Jews acquire freedom. He stood up for freedom fighters who needed America's voice.

2) Begin was the perfect leader for the Jabotinsky right. A liberal-nationalist who stayed true to his beliefs and his convictions. He was THE Fighting Jew. The Jew who didn't let anyone pick on him or our people. He was tough, he was gritty and he knew how to draw clear lines of pragmatism and clear lines of principle. He liberalized Israel's economy. Ending decades of out-of-control state socialism. He was the first PM of Israel to enfranchise Mizrahim and Sephardim into the culture and politics of Israeli society. He was a true believer in achdut - unity - among Jews. He had the heart of a warrior but the mind of a pragmatic peacemaker. My favorite Israeli Prime Minister and one of the most impactful Israeli politicians on my ideology and Zionism.

I give the slight edge to Reagan.

The reason I made the comparison is how they both moved their nations on a fundamentally different path economically, Reagan smashed the Keynesian Consensus and replaced it with the Neo-Liberal Consensus and Begin basically moved Israel fundamentally away from Socialism. Both also were considered fringe politicans who were attacked non stop by the dominant party many times in dirty ways, and their policies was opposed tooth and nail for a long time before they won.

Thatcher is obviously the better comparison to Reagan but we have already done that comparison on here endlessly while we never have done this one.


In Many ways though Begin sounds like Modi

[Indy Texas]

Reagan and Begin were both symptoms of "backlash politics" in their own ways.

Reagan, of course, very cynically exploited the suburban white backlash against civil rights that had been going on since the late 1960s, and fused that to a very plutocratic, anti-redistributive economic platform.

Begin's election in some ways paralleled the dynamics that had been at play in New York City for much of the 1960s and 1970s. The Ashkenazi Jewish Establishment played the role of the "limousine liberal" John Lindsay-voting WASPs. The Mizrahim and Sephardim were the outer-borough white ethnics fed up with cultural and cost-of-living issues. The Arabs were the villainous blacks and Puerto Ricans.

[Deleted User #4049]

We get it, you like Reagan. How many polls are you going to make about him?

[OSR stands with Israel]

I don't see how the two were similar aside from being center-right to right leaning leaders.

They had vastly different life experiences. They came from very different worlds.

One was a happy warrior who felt empowered by a sense of historic destiny.

The other was a rigid personality fueled by the albatross of pain and oppression placed on his people.


Both clashed with each other on policy and personality when they shared the international stage together.


While ParrotGuy's shameless twisting of American conservatism is ridiculous, he is not wrong in saying that the two are different types of conservatives.

Though, I also find it amusing that the Israeli center-left tries to include Begin under their banner nowadays after demonizing him and calling him a fascist for the first 30 years of the country's existence.


I think both Reagan and Begin were massive FFs but for different reasons.


1) Reagan was the perfect leader for the western world towards the end of the cold war. As a young man he was an enemy of fascism and as a seasoned man in his later years he was an enemy of communism. I share the same political romanticism for American and American exceptionalism that Reagan shared. He believed in the goodness of the American people and the ultimately goodness of freedom and democracy. His love story with America became the love story that many Americans - especially immigrants from the former USSR -  adapted as apart of their own patriotic fabric. Easily one of the most impactful American historical figures on my world view. The most relevant to me as an American: He championed dissidents from the Soviet world. He helped Soviet Jews acquire freedom. He stood up for freedom fighters who needed America's voice.

2) Begin was the perfect leader for the Jabotinsky right. A liberal-nationalist who stayed true to his beliefs and his convictions. He was THE Fighting Jew. The Jew who didn't let anyone pick on him or our people. He was tough, he was gritty and he knew how to draw clear lines of pragmatism and clear lines of principle. He liberalized Israel's economy. Ending decades of out-of-control state socialism. He was the first PM of Israel to enfranchise Mizrahim and Sephardim into the culture and politics of Israeli society. He was a true believer in achdut - unity - among Jews. He had the heart of a warrior but the mind of a pragmatic peacemaker. My favorite Israeli Prime Minister and one of the most impactful Israeli politicians on my ideology and Zionism.

I give the slight edge to Reagan.

The reason I made the comparison is how they both moved their nations on a fundamentally different path economically, Reagan smashed the Keynesian Consensus and replaced it with the Neo-Liberal Consensus and Begin basically moved Israel fundamentally away from Socialism. Both also were considered fringe politicans who were attacked non stop by the dominant party many times in dirty ways, and their policies was opposed tooth and nail for a long time before they won.

Thatcher is obviously the better comparison to Reagan but we have already done that comparison on here endlessly while we never have done this one.


In Many ways though Begin sounds like Modi

I think Reagan and Bibi are comparable, honestly. Both men are men of destiny-types of personality.


Reagan's war on communism and Bibi's war on Iranian and Islamic terrorism.


Both Reagan and Bibi had public personality flaws and both were/are transformative figures in their parties.

I disagree as Reagan was a far more competent and effective leader than Bibi has been and he was definitely the better man. On Public Personality flaws I also 100% disagree with that statement as one of Reagan's strength was his charisma and public personality. 


This comparison may sound harsh but I think Bibi is far more like Dick Cheney then anyone else. Both, in my opinion, are arguably the top major Neo-Conservatives in the past 40 years, I consider both power hungry(Cheney was worse in this regard with his belief in the Unitary Executive Theory) and both have lts of public personality problems.

[America Needs R'hllor]

I don't see how the two were similar aside from being center-right to right leaning leaders.

They had vastly different life experiences. They came from very different worlds.

One was a happy warrior who felt empowered by a sense of historic destiny.

The other was a rigid personality fueled by the albatross of pain and oppression placed on his people.


Both clashed with each other on policy and personality when they shared the international stage together.


While ParrotGuy's shameless twisting of American conservatism is ridiculous, he is not wrong in saying that the two are different types of conservatives.

Though, I also find it amusing that the Israeli center-left tries to include Begin under their banner nowadays after demonizing him and calling him a fascist for the first 30 years of the country's existence.


I think both Reagan and Begin were massive FFs but for different reasons.


1) Reagan was the perfect leader for the western world towards the end of the cold war. As a young man he was an enemy of fascism and as a seasoned man in his later years he was an enemy of communism. I share the same political romanticism for American and American exceptionalism that Reagan shared. He believed in the goodness of the American people and the ultimately goodness of freedom and democracy. His love story with America became the love story that many Americans - especially immigrants from the former USSR -  adapted as apart of their own patriotic fabric. Easily one of the most impactful American historical figures on my world view. The most relevant to me as an American: He championed dissidents from the Soviet world. He helped Soviet Jews acquire freedom. He stood up for freedom fighters who needed America's voice.

2) Begin was the perfect leader for the Jabotinsky right. A liberal-nationalist who stayed true to his beliefs and his convictions. He was THE Fighting Jew. The Jew who didn't let anyone pick on him or our people. He was tough, he was gritty and he knew how to draw clear lines of pragmatism and clear lines of principle. He liberalized Israel's economy. Ending decades of out-of-control state socialism. He was the first PM of Israel to enfranchise Mizrahim and Sephardim into the culture and politics of Israeli society. He was a true believer in achdut - unity - among Jews. He had the heart of a warrior but the mind of a pragmatic peacemaker. My favorite Israeli Prime Minister and one of the most impactful Israeli politicians on my ideology and Zionism.

I give the slight edge to Reagan.

Though I obviously disagree about Reagan, great post!

As for the Israeli left demonizing Begin- remember I wasn't alive or even in the plans back then While today I'm staunchly on Israel's left (especially when you look at our current election between the right and the center) today, I'm really not sure I'd like to be counted in the Israeli left of old. It's not just the socialist policies, which were really a mixed bag- we all enjoy a great healthcare system today, for example, but the power of the Labour Unions corrupted them, Bituah Leumi is a very flawed system that hurts the little person often, and there's a lot of excessive beaurocracy. It's also the corrupt deals, the overlooking of sexual harrassment of figures like Dayan and the horrible racism towards both Mizrahi Jews and, funny enough, Arabs. Mapai, I believe, is very flawed but also massive FF at the same time for being a strong founding generation for our nation. No one can doubt that, in the end, they were successful in creating a nation with massive potential, but as a voter, I'm not sure I'd vote for them after the first few elections and might've even voted for Begin out of solidarity with our Mizrahi brothers and sisters. That is all hypothetical, of course- as a russian, I might as well have been a racist corrupt Mapainik in that alternate universe.

[Old Man Willow]

Ronald Reagan was an awful imperialist, but he was not an outright terrorist. Begin was one of the most evil men of the 20th century.

[DC Al Fine]

Bit of a dumb question, but how would you know if someone is Ashkenazi and Sephardi if you met them randomly on the street in Israel? Is it immediately obvious based on appearance?

[America Needs R'hllor]

Bit of a dumb question, but how would you know if someone is Ashkenazi and Sephardi if you met them randomly on the street in Israel? Is it immediately obvious based on appearance?

Kinda. Mizrahi are generally browner and Ashkenazi whiter, but there are exceptions and increasingly mixed children, so it's not all that clear. For some it is- for example, a ginger is probably not a Mizrahi (but doesn't have to be Ashkenazi- maybe he's Russian) while Yemeni Jews are usually very brown, approaching Obama levels if I may use a famous figure, but for others you'd have to ask. Mizrahi and Ashkenazi Jews also used to have different accents, though in the younger generations it's mostly gone. Accents are now fairly prominent amongst the newcomers- post-Soviet and Ethiopian Jews.

[Mr. Smith]

The one that worked with Carter, not the one that defeated him.

[OSR stands with Israel]

@Old School Republican: Both Reagan and Bibi share the same strength in their charisma and appeal to voters.However, they also share some personal flaws. Reagan was aloof from people in his private life - including his children. The only exception was his strong marriage with Nancy Reagan.

Bibi's personal flaws, of course, revolve around political corruption and his extramarital affairs from when he was a younger man.

Also, both Reagan and Bibi were/are beholden to socially conservative/religious elements of their governments. More out of political pragmatism instead of ideological conviction, but they were still beholden nonetheless.


I think the positives between both men are similar. Both were great negotiators in terms of diplomacy, both had/have clear visions of for governance (i.e. Reagan's war on communism; Bibi's war on Islamic terrorism).

I dont view Bibi as charismatic while I do view Reagan as arguably the most charismatic President we have had since FDR. On personal flaws yes both of them have personal flaws but they arent similar , Reagan's was much more related to his private life then Bibi's has been.

Maybe but Reagan wasnt say as right wing on social issues as Dubya Bush was(neither is Bibi I think though) and tried to always use them in ways where he can energize the social conservatives without hurting him among nonsocial conservatives as well. Im not sure how Bibi is on this point

I believe Reagan's main focus and motivation in politics was economic issues first not foreign policy. Also  Reagan, unlike Bibi, was not a Neo-Con at least when it came to governance. He may have been personally a neocon but his foreign policy was far more in line with Realpolitick than Neo-Conservatism and in my beliefs the actual policy you pursue trumps what your personal beliefs are on those issues.

Also Reagan when he left office the nation was far more respected all around the world than when he came in , while for Bibi it has been the opposite. As a leader Bibi deserves some of the blame for that.




This is why I consider Bibi to be far more like Cheney as both were, in my opinion, had similar personal flaws(Both are power hungry) , similar ideology(Neo-Conservatism both in beliefs and in policy), both clearly care about foreign policy more than domestic, and both the US and Israel were less respected than they were before Bibi became PM the 2nd time and Cheney became VP .