Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread

[Grassroots]

No amount of excuses will change the fact that Bernie Sanders in not a Democrat and should not get the Democratic Party's nomination.

Can you just imagine if the Republicans nominated an right wing independent who didn't consider themselves to be a Republican for President? That would be ridiculous and we would laugh a them.

However, just because Bernie is a "progressive champion" (show me his record though), this is supposedly OK with some Democrats.

Anyways, Bernie might not be able to run in the Democratic primary because the DNC changed the rules last year and said that you have to be an actual Democrat to run in the primary. Imagine that.

You really are a spiteful human being aren't you?

If you take that attitude that he's forbidden from entering a primary, then that's a lot of people that are gonna stay home if Harri, Biden or Booker get nominated.

What do you mean stay home? Are you demsocs going to have a temper tantrum if your sugar daddy doesn't get nominated?

[Cold War Liberal]

The funny thing is that I used to support Bernie. I wasn't eligible to vote in 2016 (I was only 17). However, I remember HATING Hillary especially because of what I read online.

I read that she was "Republican-lite", "evil", "neocon warmonger", "corporate shill", "only running because she's a woman", "think that it's her coronation", "not progressive enough", "just as bad as Trump", etc. I believed all of that and was on Bernie's side.

However, once I saw that Bernie had no chance of winning the primary and also how so many of his supporters were still bashing Hillary even after it was clear that he lost was infuriating and I left #TeamBernie and was 100% on board with HRC.

I recognized that not only was HRC a million times better than Trump but also that I was being used and duped by Russian propaganda.

Same, actually.

Can Bernie supporters explain these for me? Especially those who don't like Kamala Harris.

(Snip)

Also, why hasn't Bernie released his most of his tax returns? Why did he vote against Russian sanctions (Magnitsky Act)? Why did he hire someone with connections to Paul Manafort? (Tad Devine)

The FBI should hire you, you are quite the investigator! They could use someone who just oozes intelligence like yourself.

Way to not answer his questions while sounding like a condescending a-hole.

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

I don't see how Warren stands a chance if Sanders runs, which is unfortunate because I would take Warren over him any day of the week.

[YE]

Can Bernie supporters explain these for me? Especially those who don't like Kamala Harris.







Also, why hasn't Bernie released his most of his tax returns? Why did he vote against Russian sanctions (Magnitsky Act)? Why did he hire someone with connections to Paul Manafort? (Tad Devine)

The crime bit is certainly a knock on his record I’m not going to lie (stick to that if you want to attack him and not the classic he’s not a Democrat line). He voted against Russia sanctions because he didn’t want to sanction Iran and North Korea and I know Devine is a longtime D strategist who worked on the Kerry and Gore campaigns so that might be why he hired him.

[James Monroe]

Watch out Bernard, the Resistance is going to throw your octogenarian ass into jail when the facts come out about your guy Devine.


https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/1089167695214510081

[Sorenroy]

Since New Frontier first posted, 36 out of 113 comments have either been by him or directly quoted him (most recent text quoted / excluding empty quotes). I've had a hand in that number, and will likely make it worse if this topic stays on this thread, but might I suggest a mod move this stuff to a separate thread about the merits of Sanders so this thread about if Sanders is going to announce soon or not stays on topic.

[Adam Griffin]

The measurement here for him and many of his affiliation is how many cardboard cutouts a particular influencer can put into office, irrespective of whether they share the same views (or even the party's views) on key issues. In their eyes, Sanders is a failure because most of his endorsed candidates either didn't win their primaries or lost their general elections. It's the same reason they fixate so much on him "not being a Democrat": it's all about labels, branding and superficial belt notches for them.

Of course, they overlook that Sanders' foray into presidential politics started not because he wanted to win an electoral contest, but because he wanted to steer the narrative of the Democratic Party. By that measurement, he has been far more successful than any other Democratic politician in many years, including the candidate he lost to in 2016 (does anybody really remember any unique policies Clinton championed?). Practically every presidential candidate who has entered the race or is expected to enter has cozied up to him on all of his core issues, including substantially higher taxes on the wealthy, $15 minimum wage, Medicare for All, and so forth. Just three years ago, virtually no prominent Democrat would be caught near these issues.

By and large, Bernie Sanders doesn't need to win the endorsement/brand game of checkers in random congressional and statewide primaries because he has taken charge of the chessboard upon which the game is played. The candidates and politicians now sing his tune; in a large number of cases, whom he picks in primaries is merely a potential cherry-on-top kind of branding/notch game victory just like the #Resistance types value.

Give me a break. Sanders's influence on Democratic Party orthodoxy is wildly overstated. It's not like establishment Democrats thought "higher taxes on the wealthy, $15 minimum wage, Medicare for All, and so forth" were bad ideas or not worth pursuing--the only difference between Sanders and the establishment was that the former was/is willing to make empty promises and the latter is actually interested in what is politically possible.  You want to credit Sanders for moving the party to the left, but the real credit belongs to two others:  Mitch McConnell, for completely destroying the notion that compromise  with Republicans is possible, and Trump, for being so unpopular that Democratic majorities in Congress after 2020 are now a distinct possibility.

What are you, 17? That's exactly what happened.

And I somehow highly doubt that a man who's been hated by the Democrats for years and the pushing of a bunch of Kasich-loving suburbrons into the party is more responsible for its leftward shift.

[Rookie Yinzer]

Harris’s prosecutorial record is turning me off. At this point I’d vote Warren to prevent a Sanders nomination.

[YE]

Anyone know anything about someone like say Sherrod Brown’s criminal justice record? Honestly it seems Harris and Sanders have imperfect records on the issue and since those 2 are the frontrunners for the D nomination leaving a power vacuum for someone else.

[DrScholl]

Can Bernie supporters explain these for me? Especially those who don't like Kamala Harris.


Also, why hasn't Bernie released his most of his tax returns? Why did he vote against Russian sanctions (Magnitsky Act)? Why did he hire someone with connections to Paul Manafort? (Tad Devine)

Part of his voting base last time was people who feel uncomfortable voting for black candidates. The problem for him is that a lot of those people are not going to pull a Democratic ballot this time and will only vote in the general for Trump.

[Heebie Jeebie]

Give me a break. Sanders's influence on Democratic Party orthodoxy is wildly overstated. It's not like establishment Democrats thought "higher taxes on the wealthy, $15 minimum wage, Medicare for All, and so forth" were bad ideas or not worth pursuing--the only difference between Sanders and the establishment was that the former was/is willing to make empty promises and the latter is actually interested in what is politically possible.  You want to credit Sanders for moving the party to the left, but the real credit belongs to two others:  Mitch McConnell, for completely destroying the notion that compromise  with Republicans is possible, and Trump, for being so unpopular that Democratic majorities in Congress after 2020 are now a distinct possibility.

Thats exactly what happened under obama.

My God that is such a dumb, unserious critique.  The Democratic party under Obama was responsible for one the greatest redistributions of wealth downward in the country's history and easily the largest expansion of the social safety net since the Great Society.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Can Bernie supporters explain these for me? Especially those who don't like Kamala Harris.


Also, why hasn't Bernie released his most of his tax returns? Why did he vote against Russian sanctions (Magnitsky Act)? Why did he hire someone with connections to Paul Manafort? (Tad Devine)

Part of his voting base last time was people who feel uncomfortable voting for black candidates. The problem for him is that a lot of those people are not going to pull a Democratic ballot this time and will only vote in the general for Trump.

Hillary voters were significantly more likely to be anti Muslim than Bernie supporters, and so were probably also more likely to be racist.

[DrScholl]

Hillary voters were significantly more likely to be anti Muslim than Bernie supporters, and so were probably also more likely to be racist.

I'm not talking about polling, I'm talking about actual votes. Some of his best counties in states that he lost were the more conservative ones. That suggest he was more of a protest vote than anything else in a lot of places.

[Heebie Jeebie]

And really none of those "authentic democrat" concerns matter, it's what the policies/record are, and what effect those will have on the country, and being authentically something is not a good unto itself.

None of the "policies/record" matter if you don't have the institutional support necessary to actually enact legislation, and you don't build institutional support by constantly spitting on the party that drives progress in this country.  Ever since William Jennings Bryan took control at the 1896 convention, the Democratic Party has been by far the greatest force for good this country has known, and for Sanders to reject membership in that party, preening about like some kind of holier-than-thou saint, while simultaneously benefiting from all the party's work and resources--it's an insult to anyone who's ever volunteered, or donated, or run for office as a Democrat.   F that guy.

[Xing]

Not surprised to see that Bernie derangement syndrome is alive and well, and many of the same people who complained about Hillary being held to an unrealistic standard hold Bernie to a similarly unrealistic standard. He's not a saint, and there are votes and statements of his worthy of criticism. (While I get what he's saying about white voters being "uncomfortable" with black candidates, i.e. xenophobia and racism are not the same thing, I think he could've used better wording, which is a common issue for him.)

However, the attacks on him "not being a Democrat", not doing "enough" for Hillary in 2016, being too old, being too "soft" on guns and/or Russia, and the mere fact that some DINOcrats in states like KY, OK, and WV voted for him come across as nothing more than people holding a grudge on him from 2016 for committing the act of domestic terrorism known as challenging Hillary to a primary, and continue to blame him for her loss, when he's one of the last people who should be blamed.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Hillary voters were significantly more likely to be anti Muslim than Bernie supporters, and so were probably also more likely to be racist.

I'm not talking about polling, I'm talking about actual votes. Some of his best counties in states that he lost were the more conservative ones. That suggest he was more of a protest vote than anything else in a lot of places.

No, it just suggested that he did better in rural areas among those people who voted in the Democratic primary. Hillary did quite well in the Arkansas primary, which wasn't very friendly to Obama.

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

Can Bernie supporters explain these for me? Especially those who don't like Kamala Harris.


Also, why hasn't Bernie released his most of his tax returns? Why did he vote against Russian sanctions (Magnitsky Act)? Why did he hire someone with connections to Paul Manafort? (Tad Devine)

Part of his voting base last time was people who feel uncomfortable voting for black candidates. The problem for him is that a lot of those people are not going to pull a Democratic ballot this time and will only vote in the general for Trump.

Hillary voters were significantly more likely to be anti Muslim than Bernie supporters, and so were probably also more likely to be racist.

If we’re taking this polling at face value, we’re also saying that Sanders voters are more conservative on healthcare than Clinton voters, but something tells me that Sanders voters would reject that characterization.

[Heebie Jeebie]

Not surprised to see that Bernie derangement syndrome is alive and well, and many of the same people who complained about Hillary being held to an unrealistic standard hold Bernie to a similarly unrealistic standard. He's not a saint, and there are votes and statements of his worthy of criticism. (While I get what he's saying about white voters being "uncomfortable" with black candidates, i.e. xenophobia and racism are not the same thing, I think he could've used better wording, which is a common issue for him.)

However, the attacks on him "not being a Democrat", not doing "enough" for Hillary in 2016, being too old, being too "soft" on guns and/or Russia, and the mere fact that some DINOcrats in states like KY, OK, and WV voted for him come across as nothing more than people holding a grudge on him from 2016 for committing the act of domestic terrorism known as challenging Hillary to a primary, and continue to blame him for her loss, when he's one of the last people who should be blamed.

I know it probably feels easier for you to just ignore the substance of the Sanders criticisms and pretend it's all petty Clinton supporters holding a grudge, but just try for a moment to imagine we're speaking in good faith.  The Democratic Party is important.  If you want to see political and social progress in this country, it's going to happen through the Democratic Party.  Recognizing this fact is why I've invested so much of my own time, money, and energy in supporting the party and its candidates, why I've run for local office as a Democrat myself.  When Sanders claims to be committed to progressive, liberal values while at the same time rejecting the only political organization that can realize those values--well, like I said, as a proud Democrat I feel personally insulted.

[Adam Griffin]

Hillary voters were significantly more likely to be anti Muslim than Bernie supporters, and so were probably also more likely to be racist.

If we’re taking this polling at face value, we’re also saying that Sanders voters are more conservative on healthcare than Clinton voters, but something tells me that Sanders voters would reject that characterization.

To be fair, there are only 3 issues here where the difference is large enough not to be chalked up to statistical noise or potential margins of error (#2, #5 & #7). However, given that Sanders did have a meaningful number of protest-voters, independents and other quirky types in his support bloc, the true gulf between Clinton and Sanders supporters who were self-identified Democrats on these issues is probably even bigger than it appears here (i.e. the conservative preferences of "Democratic" Clinton voters were even stronger).

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Just another 2016 Bernie voter checking in to say he likely won't get my vote in 2020.

I have great respect for the man, but I believe we need a fresh generation of leaders, and while Bernie is a fresh 'face' I think the standard bearer for our party going into the next decade needs to be someone quite a bit younger than Bernie.

I really hope he chooses to pass on another bid and instead works to influence the 2020 platform and campaign for 2020 candidates.

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

Hillary voters were significantly more likely to be anti Muslim than Bernie supporters, and so were probably also more likely to be racist.

If we’re taking this polling at face value, we’re also saying that Sanders voters are more conservative on healthcare than Clinton voters, but something tells me that Sanders voters would reject that characterization.

To be fair, there are only 3 issues here where the difference is large enough not to be chalked up to statistical noise or potential margins of error (#2, #5 & #7). However, given that Sanders did have a meaningful number of protest-voters, independents and other quirky types in his support bloc, the true gulf between Clinton and Sanders supporters who were self-identified Democrats on these issues is probably even bigger than it appears here (i.e. the conservative preferences of "Democratic" Clinton voters were even stronger).

If we’re talking about #2 and #9, I understand that a 10% margin is probably outside of the margin of error and a 5% margin probably isn’t, but the difference between the two is largely insignificant (if the error works in opposite way for each number, they’re equivalent margins). I do agree with your second point, though.

[RaphaelDLG]

And really none of those "authentic democrat" concerns matter, it's what the policies/record are, and what effect those will have on the country, and being authentically something is not a good unto itself.

None of the "policies/record" matter if you don't have the institutional support necessary to actually enact legislation, and you don't build institutional support by constantly spitting on the party that drives progress in this country.  Ever since William Jennings Bryan took control at the 1896 convention, the Democratic Party has been by far the greatest force for good this country has known, and for Sanders to reject membership in that party, preening about like some kind of holier-than-thou saint, while simultaneously benefiting from all the party's work and resources--it's an insult to anyone who's ever volunteered, or donated, or run for office as a Democrat.   F that guy.

Your dumb comment of course ignores that William Jennings Bryan "took over the democratic party" over a long term period of heavy infighting resistance from the business-friendly Cleveland establishment, including direct criticism of their policies that was much, much uglier and nothing like the civil discourse between Hillary and Bernie

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Not surprised to see that Bernie derangement syndrome is alive and well, and many of the same people who complained about Hillary being held to an unrealistic standard hold Bernie to a similarly unrealistic standard. He's not a saint, and there are votes and statements of his worthy of criticism. (While I get what he's saying about white voters being "uncomfortable" with black candidates, i.e. xenophobia and racism are not the same thing, I think he could've used better wording, which is a common issue for him.)

However, the attacks on him "not being a Democrat", not doing "enough" for Hillary in 2016, being too old, being too "soft" on guns and/or Russia, and the mere fact that some DINOcrats in states like KY, OK, and WV voted for him come across as nothing more than people holding a grudge on him from 2016 for committing the act of domestic terrorism known as challenging Hillary to a primary, and continue to blame him for her loss, when he's one of the last people who should be blamed.

I know it probably feels easier for you to just ignore the substance of the Sanders criticisms and pretend it's all petty Clinton supporters holding a grudge, but just try for a moment to imagine we're speaking in good faith.  The Democratic Party is important.  If you want to see political and social progress in this country, it's going to happen through the Democratic Party.  Recognizing this fact is why I've invested so much of my own time, money, and energy in supporting the party and its candidates, why I've run for local office as a Democrat myself.  When Sanders claims to be committed to progressive, liberal values while at the same time rejecting the only political organization that can realize those values--well, like I said, as a proud Democrat I feel personally insulted.

This is exactly how I feel.

[gottsu]

If his supporters will stop doing what they are doing, I will wish him well. Democrats must act united.

[RaphaelDLG]

If his supporters will stop doing what they are doing, I will wish him well. Democrats must act united.

1) What the hell does that mean, "stop doing what they are doing?"
2) Do democrats refrain from criticizing each other's record during a primary?  It is, after all, a primary