Russia plans to wipe out the USA with new generation neucs

[Proto]

https://www.rt.com/russia/442147-us-russia-nuclear-yellowstone-inf/
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/02/russian-supernuclear-robotic-submarine-would-trigger-a-mega-tsunami-to-wipe-out-florida-and-east-coast-of-the-usa.html

[dead0man]

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expert at what, making sh**t up?

[Proto]

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expert at what, making sh**t up?

Konstantin Sivkov is a well-known scientist, a corresponding member of Russian Artillery  and Missile Academy, doctor of science. http://cyclowiki.org/wiki/Константин_Валентинович_Сивков

[Virginiá]

All of this is interesting and what not, but Russia can already send America back to the stone age and has been able to for generations. We can do the same. Even China can, and some Western European countries too. The only difference here is the method and creativity involved.

And even if they nuked Yellowstone and even if that did trigger some 2012-style cataclysmic eruption, we'd still have a ton of 2nd-strike options that would allow us to retaliate and turn all regions of Russia with civilization into ash. Hell, even our ICBMs would still be operational for some time after that. The people in those bunkers are equipped to survive for a long time I think, even if topside is too toxic for human life.

[dead0man]

Just because you've got a degree in one thing doesn't mean you know sh**t about anything else (or even that one thing sometimes).  Yellowstone is not on the verge of exploding.  Humans, even with nukes, can't force a volcano to blow that isn't ready to blow.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It's not really such a novel idea. During the Cold War the Soviets did seriously consider creating a tsunami by exploding a massive nuclear device, similar to Tsar Bomba, at the bottom of the ocean floor. Some people, like Sakharov, supported it as a way of deterrence: plant the bomb and inform the U.S. it can be detonated at will.

All of this is interesting and what not, but Russia can already send America back to the stone age and has been able to for generations. We can do the same. Even China can, and some Western European countries too. The only difference here is the method and creativity involved.

And even if they nuked Yellowstone and even if that did trigger some 2012-style cataclysmic eruption, we'd still have a ton of 2nd-strike options that would allow us to retaliate and turn all regions of Russia with civilization into ash.

Wouldn't detonating a couple of warheads at a very high altitude do the trick by creating a massive EMP, essentially knocking civilian power grid out (which would inevitably cause the utter collapse of economic and social fabric)? Of course since crucial military installations necessary to launch a counterstrike are protected against the EMP. Even if you somehow managed to destroy or disable land based nuclear forces, you still have the subs out.

So yes, the basic concept of a Mutual Assured Destruction remains the same.  

[dead0man]

All of this is interesting and what not, but Russia can already send America back to the stone age and has been able to for generations. We can do the same. Even China can, and some Western European countries too. The only difference here is the method and creativity involved.

it would take way more than the 75ish nukes the PRC has to send us back to the stone age.

[Virginiá]

Yesss! High-altitude EMPs are just another way we can destroy ourselves, except that way is even more sadistic because we'll basically tear ourselves apart as modern society cannot survive without electricity. Too many people, most of whom have no idea what to do without utilities. I think it is debatable whether a technologically advanced country could actually recover from that if it went on for long enough. It doesn't matter if the military is partially protected, because they would still need to be deployed in massive numbers to try to maintain order stateside.

At that point all you're doing is damage control, or maybe retaliating with nukes in which it's game over for sure. At the very least, America's status as a superpower would be over.

[Virginiá]

All of this is interesting and what not, but Russia can already send America back to the stone age and has been able to for generations. We can do the same. Even China can, and some Western European countries too. The only difference here is the method and creativity involved.

it would take way more than the 75ish nukes the PRC has to send us back to the stone age.

Hypothetically speaking, if 50 nukes hit the continental United States (some population centers, military bases, etc), what do you think the next 5-10 years would be like?

You don't need to blanket the entire country to cause their society to implode.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Yesss! High-altitude EMPs are just another way we can destroy ourselves, except that way is even more sadistic because we'll basically tear ourselves apart as modern society cannot survive without electricity. Too many people, most of whom have no idea what to do without utilities. I think it is debatable whether a technologically advanced country could recover from that if it went on for long enough. It doesn't matter if the military is partially protected, because they would still need to be deployed in massive numbers to try to maintain order stateside.

At that point all you're doing is damage control, or maybe retaliating with nukes in which it's game over for sure.

Interestingly the most serious post-Cold War nuclear close call essentially revolved around the fear of limited high-altitude nuclear strike designed to disable your defences:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_rocket_incident

[dead0man]

All of this is interesting and what not, but Russia can already send America back to the stone age and has been able to for generations. We can do the same. Even China can, and some Western European countries too. The only difference here is the method and creativity involved.

it would take way more than the 75ish nukes the PRC has to send us back to the stone age.

Hypothetically speaking, if 50 nukes hit the continental United States (some population centers, military bases, etc), what do you think the next 5-10 years would be like?

You don't need to blanket the entire country to cause their society to implode.

Better for us than whatever's left of China.  We have friends that would help, there would still be 200 million Americans and most of our military (or more of one and less of the other, depending on which one the PRC went after more...I'd assume it would almost be exclusively military/political targets since they have so few nukes), society wouldn't implode.

I'm not saying it would be easy, it wouldn't, but it wouldn't be the end of the USA either (unless we screwed up the rebuild).

[dead0man]

A single EMP blast (even perfectly placed) wouldn't end us either.  Stop reading the Chicken Little stories guys.

[Virginiá]

A single EMP blast (even perfectly placed) wouldn't end us either.  Stop reading the Chicken Little stories guys.

I don't think anyone just said one. Kal mentioned a story about one stray missile but that was just in the context of knocking out early warning systems and such.

It'd probably take a lot of them. Doable, but still.

edit: Kal did say two, but the # of warheads needed depends on their yield too

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I remember there was a Cold War-era British study which determined that relatively few well-placed nuclear strikes could render the entire country ineffective. Of course the UK is especially unbearable given its' small size and concentration of population and industry, but a larger attack would probably do the trick, especially if you were specifically thinking about the EMP effect. Even if the societal fabric didn't collapse, the damage would be so severe it would take decades to recover. Also, the history is full of examples of sudden breakdowns, so thinking of the U.S. as somewhat special in this regard is funny.

I'd also like to caution against the assumption of present U.S. allies rushing immediatelly to your aid. We don't know what the international situation look at that point, what they problems would be (maybe they also just experienced a similar attack), etc. Also, some current "friends" could become less friendly once the U.S. loses its' big stick (even without a total breakdown, the country would simply be too occupied with the damage).

[Proto]

You all underestimate Russian threat. US anti-ballistic systems can intercept only traditional missiles. Putin boasts  new Russian supersonic missiles can not be intercepted by any "existing and prospective missile defense means of the potential adversary,” https://thehill.com/policy/defense/422862-putin-oversees-testing-of-new-hypersonic-missile-system-report. Suppose Russians attack the US with these new missiles denotating at the same time robotic nuclear submarines on San Andreas fault line and near  Snæfellsjökull  https://www.google.de/amp/s/newizv.ru/news/science/26-12-2018/kirgizskiy-uchenyy-predlozhil-zatopit-ssha-s-pomoschyu-tsunami/amp
to trigger mega tsunamis in the Atlantic and in the Pacific
 The US is SURE to be destroyed without any response. Your country is completely unprotected.

[Karpatsky]

You all underestimate Russian threat. US anti-ballistic systems can intercept only traditional missiles. Putin boasts  new Russian supersonic missiles can not be intercepted by any "existing and prospective missile defense means of the potential adversary,” https://thehill.com/policy/defense/422862-putin-oversees-testing-of-new-hypersonic-missile-system-report. Suppose Russians attack the US with these new missiles denotating at the same time robotic nuclear submarines on San Andreas fault line and near  Snæfellsjökull  https://www.google.de/amp/s/newizv.ru/news/science/26-12-2018/kirgizskiy-uchenyy-predlozhil-zatopit-ssha-s-pomoschyu-tsunami/amp
to trigger mega tsunamis in the Atlantic and in the Pacific
 The US is SURE to be destroyed without any response. Your country is completely unprotected.

ABS in its current form is a joke, but so is the idea that any of this could occur without a second strike. This is the true 'defense' against nuclear attack.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

You all underestimate Russian threat. US anti-ballistic systems can intercept only traditional missiles. Putin boasts  new Russian supersonic missiles can not be intercepted by any "existing and prospective missile defense means of the potential adversary,” https://thehill.com/policy/defense/422862-putin-oversees-testing-of-new-hypersonic-missile-system-report. Suppose Russians attack the US with these new missiles denotating at the same time robotic nuclear submarines on San Andreas fault line and near  Snæfellsjökull  https://www.google.de/amp/s/newizv.ru/news/science/26-12-2018/kirgizskiy-uchenyy-predlozhil-zatopit-ssha-s-pomoschyu-tsunami/amp
to trigger mega tsunamis in the Atlantic and in the Pacific
 The US is SURE to be destroyed without any response. Your country is completely unprotected.

How does this disable the US ability to reduce every single major Russian city into a parking lot? Lmao. Go home Russian troll. Go learn some English too, while you're at it.

[Virginiá]

The US is SURE to be destroyed without any response. Your country is completely unprotected.

No one is truly protected against nuclear weapons right now. None of what you posted fundamentally changes the game at least until every country has missile defenses that are nearly impenetrable, at which point strategically placed nukes become significantly more important.

And if that ever becomes a reality, it's sure to be far into the future, at which point technology still gives a country like America ways to respond. Russia's population may not be overly vulnerable to tsunamis but countries of the future can still use drones to tunnel into enemy territory with fail safe payloads that can be deployed at a moment's notice. In a world with such destructive weapons and increasing levels of technology, odd and convoluted schemes like this will become the norm.

[Proto]

The US won't be able to strike back. Supersonic missiles are very fast, if launched from submarines near American shores they will reach their targets in seconds to destroy all American nuclear arsenal. And American submarines with nukes will be destroyed by Russian robotic submarines. Now that Russia has an overwhelming superiority Putin is under pressure from the military to launch a preemptive nuclear strike. They have a plan called TEE, i. e Total Enemy's Eradication (Polnoe Unichtozhenie Protivnika - PUP) that involves the scenario I described above.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Some of our nukes are on subs. The UK has those too. There's no way to avoid a massive counter strike.

[Tender Branson]

You all underestimate Russian threat.

Someone's playing too much "Command & Conquer" ...

The Americans are smart enough to prevent the tsunami by freeing Peter Madsen from a Danish prison with a Navy Seal 7 team, smuggling him onto the Russian nuclear robotic submarine and letting him kill the whole Russian crew there, before they can set off the nuclear explosion that is wiping out the East Coast.

They then bring the submarine and the dead Russian crew members to the US, hand Madsen over to the Danes again (but only after the above-mentioned Navy Seal 7 team has also deployed Peter Madsen to the Kremlin in a secret night operation, where he sneaks into Putin's bedroom, has gay sex with him and then rapes, kills and dismembers him) and then use the Russian technology to build their own nuclear tsunami weapon that will wipe out St. Petersburg (not the FL one) first and then Moscow gets destroyed with the MAGA-bomb.

[dead0man]

Some of our nukes are on subs. The UK has those too. There's no way to avoid a massive counter strike.

no no no, they will be destroyed by "Russian robotic submarines" dontchaknow.  We should all just surrender to Putin now.

Meanwhile, they can't get their fancy new tank to finish a parade.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Meanwhile, they can't get their fancy new tank to finish a parade.

Good point. The entire industrial complex of Russia is overwhelmed with problems that are getting more serious every year.

The most hillarious aspect is that they now have problems obtaining even some really essential spare parts for their current arsenal, because they didn't bother to manufacture them ourselves. Why bother? They got oil and gas and could simply buy stuff abroad... then the sanctions came and oil prices dropped.

[GMantis]

You all underestimate Russian threat. US anti-ballistic systems can intercept only traditional missiles. Putin boasts  new Russian supersonic missiles can not be intercepted by any "existing and prospective missile defense means of the potential adversary,” https://thehill.com/policy/defense/422862-putin-oversees-testing-of-new-hypersonic-missile-system-report. Suppose Russians attack the US with these new missiles denotating at the same time robotic nuclear submarines on San Andreas fault line and near  Snæfellsjökull  https://www.google.de/amp/s/newizv.ru/news/science/26-12-2018/kirgizskiy-uchenyy-predlozhil-zatopit-ssha-s-pomoschyu-tsunami/amp
to trigger mega tsunamis in the Atlantic and in the Pacific
 The US is SURE to be destroyed without any response. Your country is completely unprotected.

How does this disable the US ability to reduce every single major Russian city into a parking lot? Lmao. Go home Russian troll. Go learn some English too, while you're at it.

That must rankle for someone who hates Russia and the Russian people with a burning passion (though he certainly is a troll).

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

You all underestimate Russian threat. US anti-ballistic systems can intercept only traditional missiles. Putin boasts  new Russian supersonic missiles can not be intercepted by any "existing and prospective missile defense means of the potential adversary,” https://thehill.com/policy/defense/422862-putin-oversees-testing-of-new-hypersonic-missile-system-report. Suppose Russians attack the US with these new missiles denotating at the same time robotic nuclear submarines on San Andreas fault line and near  Snæfellsjökull  https://www.google.de/amp/s/newizv.ru/news/science/26-12-2018/kirgizskiy-uchenyy-predlozhil-zatopit-ssha-s-pomoschyu-tsunami/amp
to trigger mega tsunamis in the Atlantic and in the Pacific
 The US is SURE to be destroyed without any response. Your country is completely unprotected.

How does this disable the US ability to reduce every single major Russian city into a parking lot? Lmao. Go home Russian troll. Go learn some English too, while you're at it.

That must rankle for someone who hates Russia and the Russian people with a burning passion (though he certainly is a troll).

Who? Me? I don't really care about Russia or its people one way or another, their fate is so far removed from my own and Russia has been reduced to such a second-rate power in modern times I really couldn't care less.