Michigan Senate guts minimum wage hike, paid sick leave

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

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Detroit Free Press

Should be very interesting to see if the Michigan (and by extension, Wisconsin) GOP goes the way of the North Korea Carolina GOP.

[Adam Griffin]

I really don't understand what the f[inks]ing point of an initiative process is if the legislature just gets to do whatever it wants with the resulting outcome.

[JA]

Oh, of course the Wisconsin GOP is going to do similar things. The Republican Party has given up any claim to be a Democratic Party and has embraced raw power at any costs.

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[JA]

I really don't understand what the f[inks]ing point of an initiative process is if the legislature just gets to do whatever it wants with the resulting outcome.

Something something REPUBLIC something something REPUBLICANS CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT COS FREEDOM.

[President Johnson]

Questionable to do such far reaching things in a lame duck session. If Republicans pass this next year, Gretchen Whitmer will rightfully kill it with her veto pen.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Good, maybe some more poor people will stay employed instead of going (fully) on welfare.

[Virginiá]

I really don't understand what the f[inks]ing point of an initiative process is if the legislature just gets to do whatever it wants with the resulting outcome.

Initiated statutes can be passed by the legislature, which removes them from the ballot, but it's unclear if the legislature can actually amend them in the same session. This will probably be litigated. Otherwise, the legislature needs a huge super majority to amend initiated statutes that are approved by voters - but only if the voters actually vote on it and the legislature doesn't preemptively pass it before the election.

Michigan also allows initiated constitutional amendments which the legislature can't touch. In a just environment, a statute was the right way to go for those policies, but that assumes you have a legislature willing to respect the will of the people. America is really lacking in that department unfortunately.

[JA]

Good, maybe some more poor people will stay employed instead of going (fully) on welfare.

Allowing employers to pay employees below a living wage is peak entitlement. Thinking you should be entitled to someone’s labor below a wage wherein they can afford their mere survival is the sign of an entitled person; employers need to be broken of this dysfunctional, selfish, and immature mindset.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Good, maybe some more poor people will stay employed instead of going (fully) on welfare.

Allowing employers to pay employees below a living wage is peak entitlement. Thinking you should be entitled to someone’s labor below a wage wherein they can afford their mere survival is the sign of an entitled person; employers need to be broken of this dysfunctional, selfish, and immature mindset.

That's some twisted logic.  No one is "entitled" to anyone's labor.  How much your, my, or others' labor is worth is:

1. How much one is willing to pay for it.
2. How low of wage for which you're willing to work.
3. How rare your skill is.
4. How many people want your work.

We are not slaves, that's the old South and Communist countries (that haven't adopted at least some capitalism as China has). 

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Or if you like, John Stossel goes over this better (and rails on Amazon too): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFe9N0BX8mM

[JA]

Good, maybe some more poor people will stay employed instead of going (fully) on welfare.

Allowing employers to pay employees below a living wage is peak entitlement. Thinking you should be entitled to someone’s labor below a wage wherein they can afford their mere survival is the sign of an entitled person; employers need to be broken of this dysfunctional, selfish, and immature mindset.

That's some twisted logic.  No one is "entitled" to anyone's labor.  How much your, my, or others' labor is worth is:

1. How much one is willing to pay for it.
2. How low of wage for which you're willing to work.
3. How rare your skill is.
4. How many people want your work.

We are not slaves, that's the old South and Communist countries (that haven't adopted at least some capitalism as China has).  

1. Practically nobody would sell their labor to be appropriated and profited from by another if not for the existence of coercion (homelessness, hunger, etc...)
2. Employers would never hire someone for anything more than less than what they’re worth; that’s the basis of profit. In America, the average employer makes hundreds of times the average income of their average worker, which means that they choose to pay their workers far less than they’re capable of paying them.
3. Without a workforce (often ones skilled thanks to debt they’ve accrued), employers wouldn’t be capable of producing profit from the appropriated labor of others who’ve been coerced into selling it to them. That would leave them either forced to sell their labor or impoverished.
4. The market isn’t a god. It’s a creation of man, controlled by men, and capable of being changed by the wills of men. Don’t ever pretend like it’s set in stone or beyond our control.
5. Workers shouldn’t have to sacrifice their freedom while in the workplace. Just as we want freedom and democracy outside of the workplace, we deserve it within as well. Claiming work is freely contracted is misleading; its an outcome of coercion (see: hunger and homelessness. Entrepreneurship is a myth since it’s almost exclusive to children of privilege and wealth).

[Roblox]

Inb4 50 more media stories about how it's the democrats that look down on the working class of this country.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Inb4 50 more media stories about how it's the democrats that look down on the working class of this country.

I really don't understand what the f[inks]ing point of an initiative process is if the legislature just gets to do whatever it wants with the resulting outcome.

Something something REPUBLIC something something REPUBLICANS CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT COS FREEDOM.

That, unfortunately, is how Republicans always govern. It doesn't matter by how much, or how little they win by, if they even win at all. They are always cavalier in their stubborn pursuit of their counter-productive policies.

[JA]

Inb4 50 more media stories about how it's the democrats that look down on the working class of this country.

Don’t worry, my friend. There’s enough classicism for both parties to share!

[Beet]

They should put another initiative on the ballot with proposed rollbacks to these changes.

They also need a ballot initiative to revert the powers of the legislature back to what it was originally, and enshrine it in the state constitution such that it takes a 3/4 majority in the legislature to overturn. They should also do that in every other state with ballot initiatives.

[Bojack Horseman]

They almost did this with marijuana but they didn't have the votes. The whole point was to take it off the ballot to reduce turnout-driving ballot measures and then repeal them later. The Eternal General issued an opinion on this way back when stating that these types of shenanigans are unconstitutional, and they'll be slapped with a lawsuit if this passes. 

[Badger]

Good, maybe some more poor people will stay employed instead of going (fully) on welfare.

Allowing employers to pay employees below a living wage is peak entitlement. Thinking you should be entitled to someone’s labor below a wage wherein they can afford their mere survival is the sign of an entitled person; employers need to be broken of this dysfunctional, selfish, and immature mindset.

That's some twisted logic.  No one is "entitled" to anyone's labor.  How much your, my, or others' labor is worth is:

1. How much one is willing to pay for it.
2. How low of wage for which you're willing to work.
3. How rare your skill is.
4. How many people want your work.

We are not slaves, that's the old South and Communist countries (that haven't adopted at least some capitalism as China has).  

1. Practically nobody would sell their labor to be appropriated and profited from by another if not for the existence of coercion (homelessness, hunger, etc...)
2. Employers would never hire someone for anything more than less than what they’re worth; that’s the basis of profit. In America, the average employer makes hundreds of times the average income of their average worker, which means that they choose to pay their workers far less than they’re capable of paying them.
3. Without a workforce (often ones skilled thanks to debt they’ve accrued), employers wouldn’t be capable of producing profit from the appropriated labor of others who’ve been coerced into selling it to them. That would leave them either forced to sell their labor or impoverished.
4. The market isn’t a god. It’s a creation of man, controlled by men, and capable of being changed by the wills of men. Don’t ever pretend like it’s set in stone or beyond our control.
5. Workers shouldn’t have to sacrifice their freedom while in the workplace. Just as we want freedom and democracy outside of the workplace, we deserve it within as well. Claiming work is freely contracted is misleading; its an outcome of coercion (see: hunger and homelessness. Entrepreneurship is a myth since it’s almost exclusive to children of privilege and wealth).

Libertards gotta tard.

[JA]

Good, maybe some more poor people will stay employed instead of going (fully) on welfare.

Allowing employers to pay employees below a living wage is peak entitlement. Thinking you should be entitled to someone’s labor below a wage wherein they can afford their mere survival is the sign of an entitled person; employers need to be broken of this dysfunctional, selfish, and immature mindset.

That's some twisted logic.  No one is "entitled" to anyone's labor.  How much your, my, or others' labor is worth is:

1. How much one is willing to pay for it.
2. How low of wage for which you're willing to work.
3. How rare your skill is.
4. How many people want your work.

We are not slaves, that's the old South and Communist countries (that haven't adopted at least some capitalism as China has).  

1. Practically nobody would sell their labor to be appropriated and profited from by another if not for the existence of coercion (homelessness, hunger, etc...)
2. Employers would never hire someone for anything more than less than what they’re worth; that’s the basis of profit. In America, the average employer makes hundreds of times the average income of their average worker, which means that they choose to pay their workers far less than they’re capable of paying them.
3. Without a workforce (often ones skilled thanks to debt they’ve accrued), employers wouldn’t be capable of producing profit from the appropriated labor of others who’ve been coerced into selling it to them. That would leave them either forced to sell their labor or impoverished.
4. The market isn’t a god. It’s a creation of man, controlled by men, and capable of being changed by the wills of men. Don’t ever pretend like it’s set in stone or beyond our control.
5. Workers shouldn’t have to sacrifice their freedom while in the workplace. Just as we want freedom and democracy outside of the workplace, we deserve it within as well. Claiming work is freely contracted is misleading; its an outcome of coercion (see: hunger and homelessness. Entrepreneurship is a myth since it’s almost exclusive to children of privilege and wealth).

Libertards gotta tard.

Excuse me?

[Badger]

Good, maybe some more poor people will stay employed instead of going (fully) on welfare.

Allowing employers to pay employees below a living wage is peak entitlement. Thinking you should be entitled to someone’s labor below a wage wherein they can afford their mere survival is the sign of an entitled person; employers need to be broken of this dysfunctional, selfish, and immature mindset.

That's some twisted logic.  No one is "entitled" to anyone's labor.  How much your, my, or others' labor is worth is:

1. How much one is willing to pay for it.
2. How low of wage for which you're willing to work.
3. How rare your skill is.
4. How many people want your work.

We are not slaves, that's the old South and Communist countries (that haven't adopted at least some capitalism as China has).  

1. Practically nobody would sell their labor to be appropriated and profited from by another if not for the existence of coercion (homelessness, hunger, etc...)
2. Employers would never hire someone for anything more than less than what they’re worth; that’s the basis of profit. In America, the average employer makes hundreds of times the average income of their average worker, which means that they choose to pay their workers far less than they’re capable of paying them.
3. Without a workforce (often ones skilled thanks to debt they’ve accrued), employers wouldn’t be capable of producing profit from the appropriated labor of others who’ve been coerced into selling it to them. That would leave them either forced to sell their labor or impoverished.
4. The market isn’t a god. It’s a creation of man, controlled by men, and capable of being changed by the wills of men. Don’t ever pretend like it’s set in stone or beyond our control.
5. Workers shouldn’t have to sacrifice their freedom while in the workplace. Just as we want freedom and democracy outside of the workplace, we deserve it within as well. Claiming work is freely contracted is misleading; its an outcome of coercion (see: hunger and homelessness. Entrepreneurship is a myth since it’s almost exclusive to children of privilege and wealth).

Libertards gotta tard.

Excuse me?

I was trying to explain the poster to whom you replied

[JA]

Good, maybe some more poor people will stay employed instead of going (fully) on welfare.

Allowing employers to pay employees below a living wage is peak entitlement. Thinking you should be entitled to someone’s labor below a wage wherein they can afford their mere survival is the sign of an entitled person; employers need to be broken of this dysfunctional, selfish, and immature mindset.

That's some twisted logic.  No one is "entitled" to anyone's labor.  How much your, my, or others' labor is worth is:

1. How much one is willing to pay for it.
2. How low of wage for which you're willing to work.
3. How rare your skill is.
4. How many people want your work.

We are not slaves, that's the old South and Communist countries (that haven't adopted at least some capitalism as China has).  

1. Practically nobody would sell their labor to be appropriated and profited from by another if not for the existence of coercion (homelessness, hunger, etc...)
2. Employers would never hire someone for anything more than less than what they’re worth; that’s the basis of profit. In America, the average employer makes hundreds of times the average income of their average worker, which means that they choose to pay their workers far less than they’re capable of paying them.
3. Without a workforce (often ones skilled thanks to debt they’ve accrued), employers wouldn’t be capable of producing profit from the appropriated labor of others who’ve been coerced into selling it to them. That would leave them either forced to sell their labor or impoverished.
4. The market isn’t a god. It’s a creation of man, controlled by men, and capable of being changed by the wills of men. Don’t ever pretend like it’s set in stone or beyond our control.
5. Workers shouldn’t have to sacrifice their freedom while in the workplace. Just as we want freedom and democracy outside of the workplace, we deserve it within as well. Claiming work is freely contracted is misleading; its an outcome of coercion (see: hunger and homelessness. Entrepreneurship is a myth since it’s almost exclusive to children of privilege and wealth).

Libertards gotta tard.

Excuse me?

I was trying to explain the poster to whom you replied

I thought so, but I wasn’t certain. Glad I didn’t say anything rude! I’m curious though, do you concur with what I had written?

[Badger]

Good, maybe some more poor people will stay employed instead of going (fully) on welfare.

Allowing employers to pay employees below a living wage is peak entitlement. Thinking you should be entitled to someone’s labor below a wage wherein they can afford their mere survival is the sign of an entitled person; employers need to be broken of this dysfunctional, selfish, and immature mindset.

That's some twisted logic.  No one is "entitled" to anyone's labor.  How much your, my, or others' labor is worth is:

1. How much one is willing to pay for it.
2. How low of wage for which you're willing to work.
3. How rare your skill is.
4. How many people want your work.

We are not slaves, that's the old South and Communist countries (that haven't adopted at least some capitalism as China has).  

1. Practically nobody would sell their labor to be appropriated and profited from by another if not for the existence of coercion (homelessness, hunger, etc...)
2. Employers would never hire someone for anything more than less than what they’re worth; that’s the basis of profit. In America, the average employer makes hundreds of times the average income of their average worker, which means that they choose to pay their workers far less than they’re capable of paying them.
3. Without a workforce (often ones skilled thanks to debt they’ve accrued), employers wouldn’t be capable of producing profit from the appropriated labor of others who’ve been coerced into selling it to them. That would leave them either forced to sell their labor or impoverished.
4. The market isn’t a god. It’s a creation of man, controlled by men, and capable of being changed by the wills of men. Don’t ever pretend like it’s set in stone or beyond our control.
5. Workers shouldn’t have to sacrifice their freedom while in the workplace. Just as we want freedom and democracy outside of the workplace, we deserve it within as well. Claiming work is freely contracted is misleading; its an outcome of coercion (see: hunger and homelessness. Entrepreneurship is a myth since it’s almost exclusive to children of privilege and wealth).

Libertards gotta tard.

Excuse me?

I was trying to explain the poster to whom you replied

I thought so, but I wasn’t certain. Glad I didn’t say anything rude! I’m curious though, do you concur with what I had written?

101 percent.

[Yellowhammer]

I AM SHAKING WITH ANGER. Why can we not forcibly take out these Neo-Nazi Trump-worshipping Rethuglicans and stop them from keeping billions of people in poverty.
Once they have been voted out of office, democrats should pass a law to confiscate all these rabid Drumpster loving Nazis' assets and redistribute to them to people on welfare.

[Badger]

I AM SHAKING WITH ANGER. Why can we not forcibly take out these Neo-Nazi Trump-worshipping Rethuglicans and stop them from keeping billions of people in poverty.
Once they have been voted out of office, democrats should pass a law to confiscate all these rabid Drumpster loving Nazis' assets and redistribute to them to people on welfare.

You're really not very good at this trolling for Laughs thing. Please stop.

[Rookie Yinzer]

I AM SHAKING WITH ANGER. Why can we not forcibly take out these Neo-Nazi Trump-worshipping Rethuglicans and stop them from keeping billions of people in poverty.
Once they have been voted out of office, democrats should pass a law to confiscate all these rabid Drumpster loving Nazis' assets and redistribute to them to people on welfare.

You're really not very good at this trolling for Laughs thing. Please stop.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Good, maybe some more poor people will stay employed instead of going (fully) on welfare.

Allowing employers to pay employees below a living wage is peak entitlement. Thinking you should be entitled to someone’s labor below a wage wherein they can afford their mere survival is the sign of an entitled person; employers need to be broken of this dysfunctional, selfish, and immature mindset.

That's some twisted logic.  No one is "entitled" to anyone's labor.  How much your, my, or others' labor is worth is:

1. How much one is willing to pay for it.
2. How low of wage for which you're willing to work.
3. How rare your skill is.
4. How many people want your work.

We are not slaves, that's the old South and Communist countries (that haven't adopted at least some capitalism as China has).  

1. Practically nobody would sell their labor to be appropriated and profited from by another if not for the existence of coercion (homelessness, hunger, etc...)
2. Employers would never hire someone for anything more than less than what they’re worth; that’s the basis of profit. In America, the average employer makes hundreds of times the average income of their average worker, which means that they choose to pay their workers far less than they’re capable of paying them.
3. Without a workforce (often ones skilled thanks to debt they’ve accrued), employers wouldn’t be capable of producing profit from the appropriated labor of others who’ve been coerced into selling it to them. That would leave them either forced to sell their labor or impoverished.
4. The market isn’t a god. It’s a creation of man, controlled by men, and capable of being changed by the wills of men. Don’t ever pretend like it’s set in stone or beyond our control.
5. Workers shouldn’t have to sacrifice their freedom while in the workplace. Just as we want freedom and democracy outside of the workplace, we deserve it within as well. Claiming work is freely contracted is misleading; its an outcome of coercion (see: hunger and homelessness. Entrepreneurship is a myth since it’s almost exclusive to children of privilege and wealth).

Markets are not a god.  It's organic people working together to solve problems in real-time.  I need food, let me trade my services or goods to feed myself, etc. This isn't evil.

And you're right on point 3 but add that if the wage was too low, people would not take that position.

Point 5 is way off, because my great-grandparents were WOPs that came here penniless and worked through non-criminal ways to start a business and work out of poverty.  I want that to come back, not some hand out Hoover job digging ditches or building widgets in a factory for the same pay as everyone else.