Congressional Special Election (last call! unstickied after NY-27 final results)
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Author Topic: Congressional Special Election (last call! unstickied after NY-27 final results)  (Read 170465 times)
Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #675 on: December 30, 2018, 10:18:03 AM »

As a Democrat, I neither want Harris (R), nor McCready (D) nor the defeated primary-Republican to be seated. I want NC-09 to remain vacant and a new special primary and general election to be held, which determines a winner.

And I want a tough prison sentence for the Republican guys who collected absentee ballots on their own and destroyed some of them, a hefty financial penalty of several millions to the state GOP, which is paid to the state to reform the state election system and a law that prevents such election fraud in the future.

This is the most reasonable outcome, but I would say a special election should be called as soon as possible - ideally, with the costs being billed to the guilty parties who sabotaged the election after a civil suit.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #676 on: December 30, 2018, 10:20:45 AM »

^ Well I suppose Dowless could auction off his double wide when they slap the cuffs on him.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #677 on: December 30, 2018, 04:44:57 PM »


You're missing out. The guy has gotten more and more spectacular to read over the years. He's one of Atlas' biggest competitive advantages over other sites at this point.
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GeorgiaModerate
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« Reply #678 on: December 30, 2018, 06:34:16 PM »


You're missing out. The guy has gotten more and more spectacular to read over the years. He's one of Atlas' biggest competitive advantages over other sites at this point.

For those who've read Terry Pratchett's Discworld books: he reminds me a lot of the Bursar at Unseen University.  He speaks in short bursts that are usually completely random, but occasionally produces something spectacularly insightful.
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Badger
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« Reply #679 on: December 31, 2018, 02:00:40 AM »


You're missing out. The guy has gotten more and more spectacular to read over the years. He's one of Atlas' biggest competitive advantages over other sites at this point.

For those who've read Terry Pratchett's Discworld books: he reminds me a lot of the Bursar at Unseen University.  He speaks in short bursts that are usually completely random, but occasionally produces something spectacularly insightful.

Love the series. Read every single book (RIP Terry).

I've never seen anything remotely approaching "spectacularly insightful" in anything he's posted. I'll take your word for it, but stand by the assertion I'd suffer irreversible brain damage reading his usual posts waiting for such a rare gem.
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GeorgiaModerate
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« Reply #680 on: December 31, 2018, 07:50:21 AM »


You're missing out. The guy has gotten more and more spectacular to read over the years. He's one of Atlas' biggest competitive advantages over other sites at this point.

For those who've read Terry Pratchett's Discworld books: he reminds me a lot of the Bursar at Unseen University.  He speaks in short bursts that are usually completely random, but occasionally produces something spectacularly insightful.

Love the series. Read every single book (RIP Terry).

I've never seen anything remotely approaching "spectacularly insightful" in anything he's posted. I'll take your word for it, but stand by the assertion I'd suffer irreversible brain damage reading his usual posts waiting for such a rare gem.

I may have attempted to be too clever there.  His occasional good posts make succinct good points relevant to the topic at hand.  Like the Bursar, they're spectacularly insightful in comparison to his background level. Smiley
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Badger
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« Reply #681 on: December 31, 2018, 11:34:10 AM »


You're missing out. The guy has gotten more and more spectacular to read over the years. He's one of Atlas' biggest competitive advantages over other sites at this point.

For those who've read Terry Pratchett's Discworld books: he reminds me a lot of the Bursar at Unseen University.  He speaks in short bursts that are usually completely random, but occasionally produces something spectacularly insightful.

Love the series. Read every single book (RIP Terry).

I've never seen anything remotely approaching "spectacularly insightful" in anything he's posted. I'll take your word for it, but stand by the assertion I'd suffer irreversible brain damage reading his usual posts waiting for such a rare gem.

I may have attempted to be too clever there.  His occasional good posts make succinct good points relevant to the topic at hand.  Like the Bursar, they're spectacularly insightful in comparison to his background level. Smiley

Gotcha. Hearing this University, he posts far far too often to remain in the background without putting him on ignore.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #682 on: December 31, 2018, 05:19:08 PM »

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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #683 on: December 31, 2018, 05:29:13 PM »

That, unfortunately, puts the kibosh on a fair and accurate redo of the election.
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
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« Reply #684 on: December 31, 2018, 06:36:21 PM »

Translation: he's already landed a lobbyist gig with at least five times the salary.
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Pollster
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« Reply #685 on: January 01, 2019, 11:51:18 AM »

Translation: he's already landed a lobbyist gig with at least five times the salary.
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GeorgiaModerate
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« Reply #686 on: January 01, 2019, 11:56:45 AM »

Another possibility is that Pittenger doesn't want to expend the effort to run when (a) there's a good chance he'd lose, and (b) even if he won, he'd find himself in the minority after being in the majority for his entire previous tenure.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #687 on: January 01, 2019, 12:22:16 PM »

[Outgoing GOP Rep. Robert Pittenger is ruling out running if there's a do-over of the Republican primary
Todd Johnson was elected to the state senate.
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Pollster
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« Reply #688 on: January 01, 2019, 04:18:53 PM »

[Outgoing GOP Rep. Robert Pittenger is ruling out running if there's a do-over of the Republican primary
Todd Johnson was elected to the state senate.
Surprised that this has gone relatively unreported as he is likely connected to McCray Dowless' crimes in 2016.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #689 on: January 02, 2019, 07:08:53 AM »

[Outgoing GOP Rep. Robert Pittenger is ruling out running if there's a do-over of the Republican primary
Todd Johnson was elected to the state senate.
Surprised that this has gone relatively unreported as he is likely connected to McCray Dowless' crimes in 2016.
Given that the Bladen County Improvement Association endorsed McCrae Dowless when he was first elected to the Soil and Water district in 2012, and he was in business with the chairman of the Democratic chairman of Bladen County, and had supported Democratic candidates against the Republican DA for the district including Bladen County, were Roy Cooper and Eric Holder protecting Dowless?
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Brittain33
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« Reply #690 on: January 02, 2019, 08:52:21 AM »
« Edited: January 02, 2019, 08:57:05 AM by Brittain33 »

[Outgoing GOP Rep. Robert Pittenger is ruling out running if there's a do-over of the Republican primary
Todd Johnson was elected to the state senate.
Surprised that this has gone relatively unreported as he is likely connected to McCray Dowless' crimes in 2016.
Given that the Bladen County Improvement Association endorsed McCrae Dowless when he was first elected to the Soil and Water district in 2012, and he was in business with the chairman of the Democratic chairman of Bladen County, and had supported Democratic candidates against the Republican DA for the district including Bladen County, were Roy Cooper and Eric Holder protecting Dowless?

I heard that his godparents were Tip O'Neill and Eleanor Roosevelt and he wore a red diaper to his first May Day parade.

There must be SOME mistake about his rigging the election in favor of the Republican candidate in 2018.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #691 on: January 02, 2019, 04:33:04 PM »

Even a person of minimal intelligence would not want to change the body overseeing an election while the election was going on.

Wait, am I of minimal intelligence?
If you would want to change the body overseeing an election during a election while the election was going on, you are of minimal intelligence.

You might not recall this but during the earlier litigation when there was no board of elections, the Green Party could not be certified as a qualified party. The staff could do all the of the paper work, but only the board could take official action. The Green Party was concerned that they could not make nominations.

I was just musing that maybe if a board is not deemed constitutional, how is their ability to certify an election legitimate? Does that not seem problematic? I'm not even talking about whether it's OK in our system, I don't care because that's not the point of my post. I'm just saying, does that kind of situation inspire confidence?
The issue was how the board was constituted not its function.

The board does not have the authority to declare that Dan McCready is beholden to the deep pocket money interests of Nancy Pelosi and had never voted in any primary before 2017 and therefore Jeff Scott is elected. It can simply add up the votes certified by the county boards and decide who was elected.

The constitutional concerns were:

(1) The governor could not appoint a majority of the board;
(2) The governor could not at least indirectly control the executive director. I think the Democrats don't like the current director because she was chosen by the Republican majority. It would have been much worse to have replaced her during the election. Remember that she was the one who ordered the letters to be sent out to absentee applicants in Bladen County.
(3) Since the governor doesn't control a majority of appointees he can't control the chairmanship.
(4) The governor can't control the chairmanship of the county boards. It is not clear whether the current 2/2 split is valid or not.

The effect of the court's action was to void the law and revert back to the 2016 law. Under that law the Republicans nominate five members, and the Democrats five members (the "bipartisan" is then removed from the name"). The governor chooses five members, not more than three of one party. It is unclear what happens if a party does not submit nominees.

The governor has said he would appoint the members regardless whether the parties nominate anyone.

At any rate, like I said, I think the best situation if the current board cannot exist is for Cooper to try to fill the new, constitutional board with as many as the same members. But afaik the new board can't even meet yet.

The plaintiffs (Governor Cooper) and defendants (legislative leaders) both sought the continuation of the bipartisan board through completion of the election (certification of results).

The chair of the NCSBE, which is not a part to the litigation, sent a letter to the court. The Wake County court declined to pass it on to the court since it was by a non-party to the litigation. The legislative defendants said they no problem with the letter being passed on to the court. No word from the governor, so the court lifted the stay and said goodbye.

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Cooper is a partisan hack, who didn't like the fact that he had to deal with a Republican legislature, and a Republican-majority Council of State. It was only a couple of weeks ago that the Supreme Court ruled that the legislature could require confirmation of executive officials. Cooper had filled that suit before he was even governor.

Remember when Cooper tried to call a special session of the legislature. The Constitution requires that the governor consult with the Council of State. North Carolina is kind of odd in that 10 independently elected state officers who are independent (not under the governor's direction). It would be like if the US cabinet secretaries were directly elected. In 2016, Republicans won 6 of the 10 positions. Cooper's "consultation" consisted of emails sent by Cooper's press secretary, directing the other members of the Council of State to confirm that they had received the email.

Hey Virginia please confirm that you received this email Be sure to wire the $1,000,000 to my secret Swiss bank account.

In that case, I don't think it even went to the courts. The legislature just laughed at Cooper ("Cooper is just being Cooper").

It is pretty reasonable to have the State Board of Elections to not be under single party control - assuming that one wants fair elections.

The legislature provided for a 4:4 split with appointments made by the legislature.

The district court ruled that they did not have jurisdiction because it was a political issue.

Cooper appealed to the Supreme Court, which requested more information about why it was a political issue, and if it were judiciable how would the district court rule on the constitutionality.

The district court explained why they thought that the courts did not have jurisdiction, but if they did, that the law was constitutional.

The Supreme Court reversed on a 4-3 party-line decision.

The legislature reworked their proposal, and provided that the two parties would each nominate six persons, with the governor appointing four of them. The eight members would then nominate two non-affiliated voters for the ninth member, and the governor would appoint one. The governor could remove a member at his discretion (the original provided for removal only for cause).

Governor Cooper let that bill become law without his signature (he chose not to veto it). He then sued, and also challenged some other provisions that he had not a year later.

This is the law that the board was operating under, and was declared unconstitutional three weeks before the election while early voting was underway.

You might know that this started when the Democrats began vote harvesting nursing homes.

Before then, it was mostly Republicans who absentee voted, because it required a personal note from the vote.

"Dear Ms. Virginia, Just thought I'd drop a line saying that the Azaleas are quite beautiful this time of year. That means it is time for the primary. Would you send me an absentee ballot?"

But then the legislature required a specific form, which made it easier for political parties to go complete the absentee request forms. The Democrats in Bladen County have forms that are pre-printed with all the voter information. All the voter has to do his signature and identifying information. Runners collect these and the ballots are mailed out. A day or two later the runners return to help with the ballot:

(1) Making "suggestions" who to vote for.
(2) Witness that the voter marked his own ballot, but maintaining ballot secrecy.
(3) Providing assistance.

A lot of young voters were said to not know how to vote.

Does this mean they didn't know how to fill in the bubbles, or didn't know how to vote a Democrat straight ticket?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #692 on: January 02, 2019, 05:07:36 PM »

[Outgoing GOP Rep. Robert Pittenger is ruling out running if there's a do-over of the Republican primary
Todd Johnson was elected to the state senate.
Surprised that this has gone relatively unreported as he is likely connected to McCray Dowless' crimes in 2016.
Given that the Bladen County Improvement Association endorsed McCrae Dowless when he was first elected to the Soil and Water district in 2012, and he was in business with the chairman of the Democratic chairman of Bladen County, and had supported Democratic candidates against the Republican DA for the district including Bladen County, were Roy Cooper and Eric Holder protecting Dowless?

I heard that his godparents were Tip O'Neill and Eleanor Roosevelt and he wore a red diaper to his first May Day parade.

There must be SOME mistake about his rigging the election in favor of the Republican candidate in 2018.
I doubt that Eleanor Roosevelt was the godparent of anybody born in North Carolina, unless it was one of the Vanderbilt's out at Biltmore. The Vanderbilt's also owned estates at Hyde Park. O'Neill was Catholic, wasn't he.

How did he rig the election in 2018?

Did he just go bad after he became a Republican?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #693 on: January 02, 2019, 05:14:52 PM »

Roy Cooper won't create illegal interim election board.

Hissy fit by Wake County court disbands existing board.

No heading on January 11.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #694 on: January 02, 2019, 09:01:19 PM »

Did he just go bad after he became a Republican?

Jim, one reason there is so much talking past each other is that people's interest is in the election mentioned in the subject of the thread, the NC-9 general election which has not been certified (and the primary which was), and shenanigans that went on around that. I have no reason to doubt there were shenanigans in the past, but why does it matter who it benefited then or could in the future? Whether it benefited Dems or Republicans, it shouldn't happen before or in the future.

It seems like you think there is some partisan divide here but you're the only one introducing it. Saying someone helped Democrats or didn't in the past for races that weren't on our radars and are already certified (for better or worse), doesn't mean people are suddenly ok with a Republican stealing an election. It doesn't work that way. Just prosecute the crimes and enforce the laws.
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GeorgiaModerate
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« Reply #695 on: January 02, 2019, 09:05:09 PM »

Did he just go bad after he became a Republican?

Jim, one reason there is so much talking past each other is that people's interest is in the election mentioned in the subject of the thread, the NC-9 general election which has not been certified (and the primary which was), and shenanigans that went on around that. I have no reason to doubt there were shenanigans in the past, but why does it matter who it benefited then or could in the future? Whether it benefited Dems or Republicans, it shouldn't happen before or in the future.

It seems like you think there is some partisan divide here but you're the only one introducing it. Saying someone helped Democrats or didn't in the past for races that weren't on our radars and are already certified (for better or worse), doesn't mean people are suddenly ok with a Republican stealing an election. It doesn't work that way. Just prosecute the crimes and enforce the laws.

Very well said.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #696 on: January 02, 2019, 10:53:44 PM »

Also, if you're trying to make people go "Jim McCrae Dowless used to rig things for the other side, so let's call it off," it's besides the point. Jim McCrae Dowless' fate will almost certainly be decided by a jury of 12 people, not by anyone else. He's besides the point at this point. The point is who gets the House seat.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #697 on: January 03, 2019, 02:54:23 AM »

Did he just go bad after he became a Republican?

Jim, one reason there is so much talking past each other is that people's interest is in the election mentioned in the subject of the thread, the NC-9 general election which has not been certified (and the primary which was), and shenanigans that went on around that. I have no reason to doubt there were shenanigans in the past, but why does it matter who it benefited then or could in the future? Whether it benefited Dems or Republicans, it shouldn't happen before or in the future.

It seems like you think there is some partisan divide here but you're the only one introducing it. Saying someone helped Democrats or didn't in the past for races that weren't on our radars and are already certified (for better or worse), doesn't mean people are suddenly ok with a Republican stealing an election. It doesn't work that way. Just prosecute the crimes and enforce the laws.

Perhaps you are being manipulated?

Do you think the Billy Ward vote in the 2018 primary was due to shenanigans? Do you actually have a radar? Maybe it is defective. What about 2018 Democratic primary for sheriff?

Have you read the transcript of the 2016 NCSBE hearing?

Have you read the referral to the USDOJ made following the 2016 election?
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Brittain33
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« Reply #698 on: January 03, 2019, 09:08:53 AM »
« Edited: January 03, 2019, 09:13:43 AM by Brittain33 »

Did he just go bad after he became a Republican?

Jim, one reason there is so much talking past each other is that people's interest is in the election mentioned in the subject of the thread, the NC-9 general election which has not been certified (and the primary which was), and shenanigans that went on around that. I have no reason to doubt there were shenanigans in the past, but why does it matter who it benefited then or could in the future? Whether it benefited Dems or Republicans, it shouldn't happen before or in the future.

It seems like you think there is some partisan divide here but you're the only one introducing it. Saying someone helped Democrats or didn't in the past for races that weren't on our radars and are already certified (for better or worse), doesn't mean people are suddenly ok with a Republican stealing an election. It doesn't work that way. Just prosecute the crimes and enforce the laws.

Perhaps you are being manipulated?

Do you think the Billy Ward vote in the 2018 primary was due to shenanigans? Do you actually have a radar? Maybe it is defective. What about 2018 Democratic primary for sheriff?

Have you read the transcript of the 2016 NCSBE hearing?

Have you read the referral to the USDOJ made following the 2016 election?

Nope, because I’m only interested in the 2018 NC-9 general and primary elections. I have no motivation to go do other homework assignments.

And to be honest, while I trust you when you present information based on data such as your projections for Congressional apportionment, over many years I have seen how you shade stories with any partisan content to the point that I don't trust you to be an honest and accurate narrator on past events when you have an axe to grind on behalf of your team.

Where that leaves me here is that I don't believe your take on events before 2018 (although I'm sure it contains many facts) and I don't care enough to find out the full truth whether it validates your account or not. It's possible what you're writing is 100% accurate, and Eric Holder is covering for the shenanigans in Bladen County as you claim! I don't have any reason to care.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #699 on: January 03, 2019, 01:52:18 PM »

Did he just go bad after he became a Republican?

Jim, one reason there is so much talking past each other is that people's interest is in the election mentioned in the subject of the thread, the NC-9 general election which has not been certified (and the primary which was), and shenanigans that went on around that. I have no reason to doubt there were shenanigans in the past, but why does it matter who it benefited then or could in the future? Whether it benefited Dems or Republicans, it shouldn't happen before or in the future.

It seems like you think there is some partisan divide here but you're the only one introducing it. Saying someone helped Democrats or didn't in the past for races that weren't on our radars and are already certified (for better or worse), doesn't mean people are suddenly ok with a Republican stealing an election. It doesn't work that way. Just prosecute the crimes and enforce the laws.

Perhaps you are being manipulated?

Do you think the Billy Ward vote in the 2018 primary was due to shenanigans? Do you actually have a radar? Maybe it is defective. What about 2018 Democratic primary for sheriff?

Have you read the transcript of the 2016 NCSBE hearing?

Have you read the referral to the USDOJ made following the 2016 election?

Nope, because I’m only interested in the 2018 NC-9 general and primary elections. I have no motivation to go do other homework assignments.

And to be honest, while I trust you when you present information based on data such as your projections for Congressional apportionment, over many years I have seen how you shade stories with any partisan content to the point that I don't trust you to be an honest and accurate narrator on past events when you have an axe to grind on behalf of your team.

Where that leaves me here is that I don't believe your take on events before 2018 (although I'm sure it contains many facts) and I don't care enough to find out the full truth whether it validates your account or not. It's possible what you're writing is 100% accurate, and Eric Holder is covering for the shenanigans in Bladen County as you claim! I don't have any reason to care.
Are you uninterested in historical context?

Handwritten notes show efforts to collect absentee ballots in exchange for money in Bladen Co.
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