Southeast Initiatives for November

[Ebowed]

Initiative 92: Constitutional Amendment Process Initiative

Article IV of the Southeast Constitution states:  "To amend this document, a Southeastern citizen must introduce a Constitutional Amendment pursuant to Article II, Clause I. ... The amendment must gain 2/3rds of voters that cast a ballot in that month's election to be placed into law."  The purpose of this initiative is to amend Section 3 of Article VI to make an exemption for voters who cast a ballot and abstain on the constitutional amendment.

1. Section 3 of Article IV of the Southeast Constitution is modified to read:
"The amendment shall not become law unless approved by two-thirds of those voting (excluding abstentions)."


X Ebowed

[Ebowed]

Initiative 93: Disbanding of Forum Elite Conspiracy Research Committe Initiative

The purpose of this initiative is to disband the Forum Elite Conspiracy Research Initiative that was formed as per the passage of Initiative 59.

1. The "Forum Elite Conspiracy Research Committee," as was established by Southeast Initiative 59, will disband immediately upon the passage of this initiative.

2. All reports published by the committee will lose any legal or officially recognized status immediately upon the passage of this initiative.


X Ebowed

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Initiative 93: Disbanding of Forum Elite Conspiracy Research Committe Initiative

The purpose of this initiative is to disband the Forum Elite Conspiracy Research Initiative that was formed as per the passage of Initiative 59.

1. The "Forum Elite Conspiracy Research Committee," as was established by Southeast Initiative 59, will disband immediately upon the passage of this initiative.

2. All reports published by the committee will lose any legal or officially recognized status immediately upon the passage of this initiative.


X Ebowed

X Htmldon on 93.

[TomC]

x TCash101 on 93.

I'm thinking about the other.

[TomC]

Initiative 92: Constitutional Amendment Process Initiative
 voters who cast a ballot and abstain on the constitutional amendment.

1. Section 3 of Article IV of the Southeast Constitution is modified to read:
"The amendment must gain 2/3rds of non-abstaining voters that cast a ballot in that month's election to be placed into law."

X Ebowed

You need to add "abstain on the constitutional amendment" into the text of the bill, otherwise it could be argued that abstaining on any vote on the ballot for the month could make a voter an "abstaining voter," and if you look at the last SE election, it seems most everybody abstained on something. That said, I'm still not crazy about it- it should take 2/3 of voters, not just voters who care one way or the other. But I'll continue to think about it...

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

x Ernest on Initiative 92

I feel that abstentions shouldn't affect the outcome negatively.  I can see requiring  that a certain portion of registered voters must agree in order to pass amendments, but a requirement that causes casting an abstention to make it more difficult for a proposition to pass than if no vote at all was cast makes an abstention not an abstention in my book.

[ian]

X Lt. Gov. Ian
for both propositions

[Jake]

I'll sign #93. But since I crafted #92 specifically to include that provision , no dice.

[Bacon King]

X Bacon King on 93.

[Ebowed]

Initiative 92: Constitutional Amendment Process Initiative
 voters who cast a ballot and abstain on the constitutional amendment.

1. Section 3 of Article IV of the Southeast Constitution is modified to read:
"The amendment must gain 2/3rds of non-abstaining voters that cast a ballot in that month's election to be placed into law."

X Ebowed

You need to add "abstain on the constitutional amendment" into the text of the bill, otherwise it could be argued that abstaining on any vote on the ballot for the month could make a voter an "abstaining voter," and if you look at the last SE election, it seems most everybody abstained on something. That said, I'm still not crazy about it- it should take 2/3 of voters, not just voters who care one way or the other. But I'll continue to think about it...

I edited the initiative, what do you think?

[Brandon H]

X Brandon H. (to both).

Under the Technical Correction Initiative, I think the Constitution, Article I needs to be modified to include Lt. Gov. under the election procedures in all places where the Gov. election procedure are mentioned.

[Emsworth]

'Non-abstaining voter' shall be defined as a voter who abstains...

Hmm, that seems like a typo.

Might I suggest:

"The amendment shall not become law unless approved by two-thirds of those voting (excluding abstentions)."

[TomC]

'Non-abstaining voter' shall be defined as a voter who abstains...

Hmm, that seems like a typo.

Might I suggest:

"The amendment shall not become law unless approved by two-thirds of those voting (excluding abstentions)."

That's good. I think it implies enough that it means voting on the amendment.

[Q]

How about giving some responsibilities to the Lieutenant Governor?

I'm not sure what those should be, or I would draft the initiative myself.

[TomC]

How about giving some responsibilities to the Lieutenant Governor?

I'm not sure what those should be, or I would draft the initiative myself.

Yes, that sounds appropriate. I'll be thinking about it.

Ian, any suggestions?

[Q]

On the testimony of former Governor Ernest, I have made modifications to my earlier initiative.  The new version follows:


Initiative 94: Commissioner Accountability Amendment
Article I, Section 12 of the Regional Constitution is added as follows:

"The Governor may nominate a Lottery Commissioner, Alcohol Commissioner, Tobacco Commissioner, Hemp and Cannabis Commissioner, Transportation Commisioner, and any other officer whose position is mandated by the Constitution of the Southeast Region or a voter-approved initiative subject to the approval by the majority of voters at the next election at which an initiative could be voted on.  This section applies also to offices created by future legislation."

Borrowing the language from the constitutional provision for a Magistrate, this initiative would convert the offices of the various Governor-appointed commissioners from those that operate at the pleasure of the Governor to those that, like the Magistrate, are still appointed by the Governor but for which the appointees must be also be approved by the voters.

[Ebowed]

X Ebowed

[Jake]

The Lt. Governor could hold the title of Lottery Commissioner and could be designated as the person who compiles the initiatives and handles the elections. Just to give something to do.

[Ebowed]

I'll sign #93. But since I crafted #92 specifically to include that provision , no dice.

Jake, the simple fact is that 60% of our region voted in favor of an initiative and only 25% voted against it.  Why did the three people that abstained have their votes counted as "nays"?  That just is not fair, to both those voters and to the region at large.  Abstentions should not count as either yeas or nays in constitutional amendment votes.

[Q]

The Lt. Governor could hold the title of Lottery Commissioner and could be designated as the person who compiles the initiatives and handles the elections. Just to give something to do.

That sounds like a good idea.  Until an initiative regarding the powers and responsibilities of the Lieutenant Governor is worked out, consider my Initiative 94 suspended for now.


Also, x Q on Initiative 92.

[Emsworth]

Initiative 95: Second Concealed Carry Initiative

Section One: Concealed Carry
1. All persons shall have the right to conceal and carry firearms in public areas, except as otherwise provided by this law.
2. It shall not be necessary to obtain a license or pay a fee to be able to conceal and carry firearms.
3. The right to conceal and carry firearms shall not extend to anyone under the age of eighteen, to anyone who is insane, or to anyone whose right to bear arms has been suspended as a punishment for the commission of a crime.
4. The Concealed Carry Initiative (Initiative 37) is hereby repealed.

Section Two: Disallowing Concealed Carry
1. Any person may disallow the concealed carrying of firearms on his private property.
2. The government may disallow the concealed carrying of firearms in any government-owned building, including but not limited to courthouses and schools.

Note: This initiative is meant to introduce Vermont-style concealed carry laws to the Southeast.

X Emsworth

[Ebowed]

Yeah!  I sign, X Ebowed.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

X Htmldon on 95.

[Brandon H]

I'll sign #93. But since I crafted #92 specifically to include that provision , no dice.

Jake, the simple fact is that 60% of our region voted in favor of an initiative and only 25% voted against it.  Why did the three people that abstained have their votes counted as "nays"?  That just is not fair, to both those voters and to the region at large.  Abstentions should not count as either yeas or nays in constitutional amendment votes.

Is it too late to challenge the certification? You may be able to make that case and let the magistrate decide.

[Jake]

The initiative states it clearly meaning there isn't any kind of interpretation to be challenged.