Where in Europe did folk religion/major folk beliefs hold out longest?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 01, 2024, 02:09:45 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  Religion & Philosophy (Moderator: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.)
  Where in Europe did folk religion/major folk beliefs hold out longest?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Where in Europe did folk religion/major folk beliefs hold out longest?  (Read 1503 times)
HillGoose
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,882
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.74, S: -8.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: October 13, 2018, 01:31:10 AM »

Among the population in general, not in terms of legal or governmental policy.

I ask because I was reading about how folk magicians known as "cunning men" were present in the UK, and pretty common until the 19th century, with some recorded into the 1930s. The interesting thing about it is that (from what I've read) in many of these European nations, belief in aspects of folk magic persisted far beyond Christianization, but the religious aspects disappeared more quickly after being absorbed into Christianity.

Another aspect is that it seems to get muddy when you go back further, and the pre-Christian religions are not as well documented nor are the practices of the population as a whole, so it seems hard to tell the extent to which these practices in more modern times resembled those from earlier times.

So,

1) Excluding probably the obvious of far-northern Scandinavia, where in Europe did pre-Christian religion stick around longest? How long did it take for the population to become overwhelmingly Christian?

2) What areas of Europe did belief in pre-Christian folk magic and ritual practices (although maybe not religion) persist the longest and became most deeply ingrained into society? Judging by the category of purely non-Christian sorts of superstition.

I hope to have some answers on this. I've been reading a lot on it in my spare time and it's become somewhat fascinating.
Logged
I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 113,070
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2018, 01:36:14 AM »

The Baltic countries were the last part of Europe to be Christianized, not until the late 14th century.
Logged
Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,156
Austria


Political Matrix
E: -6.06, S: -4.84

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2018, 01:58:50 AM »

There's a lot of pre-Christian Celtic/Pagan traditions left in and around Austria for example, most notably the Krampus or solstice bonfires on mountains, which date back thousands of years.

While Austria of course became heavily Christian over the centuries, first Catholic then in the 1500s and 1600s also quite a bit Protestant (until the Catholic Church and the ruling class killed them off or chased them away during the 30 Years War), those elements remained over the years and are still widely practiced by people. As of late, there's also a growing trend of funerals in woods for example, instead of being buried on the Catholic Church graveyard, something that is very arch-Celtic.

I should also note that central Austria (or better the Salzkammergut) was the center of the so-called Celtic Hallstatt Culture about 5.000 years ago, the most advanced culture at that time.

The culture was similar to the Hobbits, they were specializing in arts and culture, trade and advanced forms of handicraft.

Celtic Villages are popping up again as re-enactments of that time and are very popular with tourists and locals. There's one not far a way from here (5 miles):







Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,355
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2018, 08:31:10 AM »

Is there much Celt blood left in the Austrian population?  Has DNA testing been done?
Logged
Georg Ebner
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 410
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2018, 06:54:29 PM »

Is there much Celt blood left in the Austrian population?  Has DNA testing been done?
DNS-testing has been conducted now and again in Austria. But what is certainly Celtic blood? At Y-chr. some SubClades of R1b probably, but the Celts were not a pure race, of course.
According to Cavalli-Sforza the genetical FootPrint of 2 people wasn't detected: MegalithCulture (a religion without migration?) and Celts.
Logged
Blue3
Starwatcher
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,063
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2018, 10:29:10 PM »

There's a republic inside European Russia that's still mostly pagan.
Logged
Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,214
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2018, 10:39:21 PM »

Iceland still holds out for hidden people if that counts.
Logged
HillGoose
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,882
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.74, S: -8.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2018, 10:56:17 PM »

There's a republic inside European Russia that's still mostly pagan.

What? I've never heard that lol. What one is it?
Logged
Blue3
Starwatcher
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,063
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2018, 11:58:15 PM »
« Edited: October 14, 2018, 12:06:06 AM by Blue3 »

There's a republic inside European Russia that's still mostly pagan.

What? I've never heard that lol. What one is it?

Mari El

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mari_El

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mari_Native_Religion
Logged
DC Al Fine
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,080
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2018, 12:09:28 PM »

On a related note there were Egyptian pagans practicing well into the 6th century.
Logged
Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,234
Georgia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2018, 07:38:07 AM »

On a related note there were Egyptian pagans practicing well into the 6th century.

Interesting, I wonder if any were still around during the Arab conquest.
Logged
DINGO Joe
dingojoe
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,689
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2018, 02:40:16 PM »

That island off of Scotland where they burned up Nicholas Cage to save the crops--FF.  And yes, I know the Nicholas Cage version was set in Puget Sound.
Logged
Lechasseur
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,767


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2018, 05:13:48 PM »

Even though Russia converted to Christianity around the year 1000, I read somewhere (Wikipedia I believe, I'll look for the article) that until the 1600s Christianity was mainly the religion of the elites, and that the peasantry largely stayed pagan until that point. I was surprised to read that but it was very interesting.

So apparently the answer's Russia.

But the Baltic States outright rejected Christianity until the late 14th Century I believe, so you could argue it's them too.
Logged
HillGoose
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,882
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.74, S: -8.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2018, 06:21:52 PM »

Even though Russia converted to Christianity around the year 1000, I read somewhere (Wikipedia I believe, I'll look for the article) that until the 1600s Christianity was mainly the religion of the elites, and that the peasantry largely stayed pagan until that point. I was surprised to read that but it was very interesting.

So apparently the answer's Russia.

But the Baltic States outright rejected Christianity until the late 14th Century I believe, so you could argue it's them too.

Thanks for the Russia info. Like that's sort of what I was wondering. Clearly most European countries were legally Christian before the majority of their population had adopted Christianity, and that was definitely sort of what interested me.

Like even when 30% of the population were still pagan, that's still clearly a large chunk and I wonder in different parts of Europe how long it took to get to a point where paganism was out of the norm, even if a majority of the population was Christian, a sizeable minority of paganism might not have seemed out of place.
Logged
Lechasseur
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,767


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2018, 04:36:45 AM »

Sorry for having taken so long to post this, but my source is this section of the Wikipedia article on Slavic Paganism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_paganism#Continuity_of_Slavic_religion_in_Russia_up_to_the_15th_century
Logged
FEMA Camp Administrator
Cathcon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,310
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2018, 09:07:54 AM »

Even though Russia converted to Christianity around the year 1000, I read somewhere (Wikipedia I believe, I'll look for the article) that until the 1600s Christianity was mainly the religion of the elites, and that the peasantry largely stayed pagan until that point. I was surprised to read that but it was very interesting.

So apparently the answer's Russia.

But the Baltic States outright rejected Christianity until the late 14th Century I believe, so you could argue it's them too.

Thanks for the Russia info. Like that's sort of what I was wondering. Clearly most European countries were legally Christian before the majority of their population had adopted Christianity, and that was definitely sort of what interested me.

Like even when 30% of the population were still pagan, that's still clearly a large chunk and I wonder in different parts of Europe how long it took to get to a point where paganism was out of the norm, even if a majority of the population was Christian, a sizeable minority of paganism might not have seemed out of place.

If you’re interested in the topic, most reading on Russia will clarify that even peasant Christians practiced a form of Orthodox Christianity that might appear starkly different than what would be found in your average ROC church. Russian Christianity at the popular level was permeated probably both by pre-Christian traditions as well as the sort of folk religion you’d expect from religious but superstitious people very far from centers of religious and political power. You can see a sort of similar phenomenon with Muslim Kyrgyz and Kazakhs prior to 1917.
Logged
The Mikado
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,793


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2018, 07:25:01 PM »


I thought you were going to mention Kalmykia (predominantly Buddhist, but Buddhism is a "pagan" faith and it is within Europe).
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.043 seconds with 11 queries.