Justice Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing *DISCUSSION AND LIVE COMMENTARY*

[fhtagn]

https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/1045000627389190145

Does seem kind of weird to me at least that a woman would keep going to such parties.

I know this is now the de facto line of defense after this morning's affidavit, but it's completely ignorant as to how youth parties work even in the 2010s. Did none of you attend a frat party in college?

No, and if gang rapes are normal at such events and even the women treat it nonchalantly I'm even more glad I didn't.

I'm honestly pretty concerned that if gang rapes were common at the frat parties IndustrialJustice attended, why didn't he report them?

[ProudModerate2]

It's all up to Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins and Jeff Flake. They are the people who will or will not make Brett Kavanaugh a Supreme Court Justice.

Agree.
I hope other GOP Senators take these allegations more seriously, because right now, most of them are basically ignoring these women and wanting to just ram Kavanaugh into the SC seat.
Either investigate these allegations more (using the FBI where deemed appropriate), or withdraw this tainted nominee.

[ProudModerate2]

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[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

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Ford wrote out a statement and was asked "Is any part of your statement false?" and "Did you make up any part of your statement?"  Her statement mentions "Mark" but does not mention Kavanaugh name.

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1045017188929687552

[new_patomic]

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Why is this pseudoscience being treated as an important piece of evidence?

We're in a PR battle and people are stupid

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/1045000627389190145

Does seem kind of weird to me at least that a woman would keep going to such parties.

I know this is now the de facto line of defense after this morning's affidavit, but it's completely ignorant as to how youth parties work even in the 2010s. Did none of you attend a frat party in college?

No, and if gang rapes are normal at such events and even the women treat it nonchalantly I'm even more glad I didn't.

I'm honestly pretty concerned that if gang rapes were common at the frat parties IndustrialJustice attended, why didn't he report them?

The police wouldn't care. This kind of conduct is probably seen as too accepted, for lack of a better word, to have anything done about it. The police are awful about sexual assault. You'd be amazed what some people don't talk about.

And I think industrial should get a chance to clarify what he said

[Beet]

Well, the Julie Swetnick allegations involve so many people that more people may come forward to confirm or deny her statements. Something doesn't smell right about this. A "train" of men were lined up for gang rapes at parties with a lot of people and no one said anything? Not one man? This kind of accusation fits the pattern of false allegations - they tend to be wild and fantastical. They tend to be too perfect. Interesting that she does not remember who actually raped her but she somehow remembers Kavanaugh and Judge.

[new_patomic]

Well, the Julie Swetnick allegations involve so many people that more people may come forward to confirm or deny her statements. Something doesn't smell right about this. A "train" of men were lined up for gang rapes at parties with a lot of people and no one said anything? Not one man? This kind of accusation fits the pattern of false allegations - they tend to be wild and fantastical. They tend to be too perfect. Interesting that she does not remember who actually raped her but she somehow remembers Kavanaugh and Judge.

How many people knew or were assaulted by Cosby yet it took decades to say something.

Penn State administrators knew for years something was going on and nothing came out.

The Catholic Church is now suffering for decades of cover up and neglect.

Of course that doesn't speak to the truthfulness of her allegation but the amount of people plausibly involved isn't necessary a strong detriment to her credibility.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

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Why is this pseudoscience being treated as an important piece of evidence?

We're in a PR battle and people are stupid

At least you admit to your intellectual dishonesty to destroy a man's life.

[Beet]

Well, the Julie Swetnick allegations involve so many people that more people may come forward to confirm or deny her statements. Something doesn't smell right about this. A "train" of men were lined up for gang rapes at parties with a lot of people and no one said anything? Not one man? This kind of accusation fits the pattern of false allegations - they tend to be wild and fantastical. They tend to be too perfect. Interesting that she does not remember who actually raped her but she somehow remembers Kavanaugh and Judge.

How many people knew or were assaulted by Cosby yet it took decades to say something.

Penn State administrators knew for years something was going on and nothing came out.

The Catholic Church.

Of course that doesn't speak to the truthfulness of her allegation but the amount of people plausibly involved isn't necessary a strong detriment to her credibility.

Sure, but those were all one-on-one affairs while they were actually happening. This person is alleging that a "train" of men regularly lined up and did this. That a "train" of men lined up and took turns with girls who were conscious but unable to move, and raped them. That defies all belief. It's bringing flashbacks to the UVA false rape accusation, or the Duke lacrosse case where it was alleged that an entire group of boys all participated. I think that is total BS.

[IndustrialJustice]

https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/1045000627389190145

Does seem kind of weird to me at least that a woman would keep going to such parties.

I know this is now the de facto line of defense after this morning's affidavit, but it's completely ignorant as to how youth parties work even in the 2010s. Did none of you attend a frat party in college?

No, and if gang rapes are normal at such events and even the women treat it nonchalantly I'm even more glad I didn't.

I'm honestly pretty concerned that if gang rapes were common at the frat parties IndustrialJustice attended, why didn't he report them?

The police wouldn't care. This kind of conduct is probably seen as too accepted, for lack of a better word, to have anything done about it. The police are awful about sexual assault. You'd be amazed what some people don't talk about.

And I think industrial should get a chance to clarify what he said

There's nothing to clarify. They're trolling. Date rape drugs are rampant on college campuses, and they're concentrated in Greek life. You can bust a few members a year or, if the administration is lucky, even ban a frat, but they'll just pop up again like fresh grass (often thanks to old money). I never stepped foot in one of those dungeons again after my first month on campus.

[fhtagn]

https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/1045000627389190145

Does seem kind of weird to me at least that a woman would keep going to such parties.

I know this is now the de facto line of defense after this morning's affidavit, but it's completely ignorant as to how youth parties work even in the 2010s. Did none of you attend a frat party in college?

No, and if gang rapes are normal at such events and even the women treat it nonchalantly I'm even more glad I didn't.

I'm honestly pretty concerned that if gang rapes were common at the frat parties IndustrialJustice attended, why didn't he report them?

The police wouldn't care. This kind of conduct is probably seen as too accepted, for lack of a better word, to have anything done about it. The police are awful about sexual assault. You'd be amazed what some people don't talk about.

And I think industrial should get a chance to clarify what he said

There's nothing to clarify. They're trolling. Date rape drugs are rampant on college campuses, and they're concentrated in Greek life. You can bust a few members a year or, if the administration is lucky, even ban a frat, but they'll just pop up again like fresh grass (often thanks to old money). I never stepped foot in one of those dungeons again after my first month on campus.

As someone who was actually in a sorority in college, and attended many frat parties on my campus and when visiting other schools, I can guarantee I've never been to a single party or even heard of a single party where gang rapes were happening, or even where date rape drugs were commonly used aside from the one or two scummy people who were kicked out as soon as they were caught. And considering there are several posters on this forum who were involved in Greek life while in college, it's pretty disgusting that you're making the assumption that it's common for frat boys to use date rape drugs or engage in gang rape.

[Dr. Arch]

Trump seems to have nominated an older Bryce Walker from "13 Reasons Why" to SCOTUS.

[new_patomic]

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Why is this pseudoscience being treated as an important piece of evidence?

We're in a PR battle and people are stupid

At least you admit to your intellectual dishonesty to destroy a man's life.

Oh grow up.

It isn't like Kavanaugh went on Fox News to profess his virginity because he thought it would clear the air and end the allegations. He knew he needed the PR and to get his side of the story out there before the hearing.

Ford and her lawyers weren't idiots. They knew that coming out with her story would make her a target for character assassination, death threats, and people like Trump or Graham making any number of statements about her motives and credibility. So of course she tried to prepare by taking a polygraph test. Even if psuedoscience it can held lend her credability as she fights to have her truth believed.

It being a PR battle doesnt make her claim false.

[Tintrlvr]

https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/1045000627389190145

Does seem kind of weird to me at least that a woman would keep going to such parties.

I know this is now the de facto line of defense after this morning's affidavit, but it's completely ignorant as to how youth parties work even in the 2010s. Did none of you attend a frat party in college?

No, and if gang rapes are normal at such events and even the women treat it nonchalantly I'm even more glad I didn't.

I'm honestly pretty concerned that if gang rapes were common at the frat parties IndustrialJustice attended, why didn't he report them?

The police wouldn't care. This kind of conduct is probably seen as too accepted, for lack of a better word, to have anything done about it. The police are awful about sexual assault. You'd be amazed what some people don't talk about.

And I think industrial should get a chance to clarify what he said

There's nothing to clarify. They're trolling. Date rape drugs are rampant on college campuses, and they're concentrated in Greek life. You can bust a few members a year or, if the administration is lucky, even ban a frat, but they'll just pop up again like fresh grass (often thanks to old money). I never stepped foot in one of those dungeons again after my first month on campus.

As someone who was actually in a sorority in college, and attended many frat parties on my campus and when visiting other schools, I can guarantee I've never been to a single party or even heard of a single party where gang rapes were happening, or even where date rape drugs were commonly used aside from the one or two scummy people who were kicked out as soon as they were caught. And considering there are several posters on this forum who were involved in Greek life while in college, it's pretty disgusting that you're making the assumption that it's common for frat boys to use date rape drugs or engage in gang rape.

I do think the culture in this regard has improved significantly today as compared to colleges in the 80s and 90s, along with social attitudes towards women and rape more generally.

[Beet]

Sure, but those were all one-on-one affairs while they were actually happening. This person is alleging that a "train" of men regularly lined up and did this. That a "train" of men lined up and took turns with girls who were conscious but unable to move, and raped them. That defies all belief. It's bringing flashbacks to the UVA false rape accusation, or the Duke lacrosse case where it was alleged that an entire group of boys all participated. I think that is total BS.

The part that "defies all belief," in your eyes, is that multiple men were involved and none of them have publicly confessed to rape? That's unimaginable to you?

Look, I agree that the vast majority of rapes end without legal punishment, particularly acquaintance rapes, and it's a huge problem. But that's because usually it's a crime that occurs in privacy between two people and thus, is hard to prove. It's much more rare to see an environment where rape is so openly condoned that a whole party of men is likely to just mutually agree to do it, and make it a habit again and again.

I'm still undecided on the other two accusers, but I have a rather large, Texas-sized dollop of skepticism for this Swetnick person. This story was not broken by the Post or the New Yorker but by Michael Avenatti. That alone should give you pause. But as I said, so many people are allegedly involved in this that we may hear from others.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/1045000627389190145

Does seem kind of weird to me at least that a woman would keep going to such parties.

I know this is now the de facto line of defense after this morning's affidavit, but it's completely ignorant as to how youth parties work even in the 2010s. Did none of you attend a frat party in college?

No, and if gang rapes are normal at such events and even the women treat it nonchalantly I'm even more glad I didn't.

I'm honestly pretty concerned that if gang rapes were common at the frat parties IndustrialJustice attended, why didn't he report them?

The police wouldn't care. This kind of conduct is probably seen as too accepted, for lack of a better word, to have anything done about it. The police are awful about sexual assault. You'd be amazed what some people don't talk about.

And I think industrial should get a chance to clarify what he said

There's nothing to clarify. They're trolling. Date rape drugs are rampant on college campuses, and they're concentrated in Greek life. You can bust a few members a year or, if the administration is lucky, even ban a frat, but they'll just pop up again like fresh grass (often thanks to old money). I never stepped foot in one of those dungeons again after my first month on campus.

As someone who was actually in a sorority in college, and attended many frat parties on my campus and when visiting other schools, I can guarantee I've never been to a single party or even heard of a single party where gang rapes were happening, or even where date rape drugs were commonly used aside from the one or two scummy people who were kicked out as soon as they were caught. And considering there are several posters on this forum who were involved in Greek life while in college, it's pretty disgusting that you're making the assumption that it's common for frat boys to use date rape drugs or engage in gang rape.

I do think the culture in this regard has improved significantly today as compared to colleges in the 80s and 90s, along with social attitudes towards women and rape more generally.

As someone in college in the 70s, I find these descriptions believable.  I wasn't in a frat but had some close friends who were, and I attended a couple of their parties and heard about others.  Nothing at the level described here, but certainly there was sexual stuff going on that was way outside my comfort level.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1045043438687866880

[JG]

Sure, but those were all one-on-one affairs while they were actually happening. This person is alleging that a "train" of men regularly lined up and did this. That a "train" of men lined up and took turns with girls who were conscious but unable to move, and raped them. That defies all belief. It's bringing flashbacks to the UVA false rape accusation, or the Duke lacrosse case where it was alleged that an entire group of boys all participated. I think that is total BS.

The part that "defies all belief," in your eyes, is that multiple men were involved and none of them have publicly confessed to rape? That's unimaginable to you?

Look, I agree that the vast majority of rapes end without legal punishment, particularly acquaintance rapes, and it's a huge problem. But that's because usually it's a crime that occurs in privacy between two people and thus, is hard to prove. It's much more rare to see an environment where rape is so openly condoned that a whole party of men is likely to just mutually agree to do it, and make it a habit again and again.

I'm still undecided on the other two accusers, but I have a rather large, Texas-sized dollop of skepticism for this Swetnick person. This story was not broken by the Post or the New Yorker but by Michael Avenatti. That alone should give you pause. But as I said, so many people are allegedly involved in this that we may hear from others.

So, you assume that Swetnick put her entire career in jeopardy just to stop a random guy she met back in college to get further in his career? Because let's be real here, outside of maybe not getting on the SC, Kavanaugh won't suffer any real consequences from this and will be allowed to continue his career as a judge, while if Swetnick is shown to have lied, it's a criminal offense and her career is over. Sounds like a very risky game to play.

[IndustrialJustice]

As someone who was actually in a sorority in college, and attended many frat parties on my campus and when visiting other schools, I can guarantee I've never been to a single party or even heard of a single party where gang rapes were happening, or even where date rape drugs were commonly used aside from the one or two scummy people who were kicked out as soon as they were caught. And considering there are several posters on this forum who were involved in Greek life while in college, it's pretty disgusting that you're making the assumption that it's common for frat boys to use date rape drugs or engage in gang rape.

Gambling, in this establishment?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/24/rape-sexual-assault-ban-frats?CMP=share_btn_tw

[IndustrialJustice]

What has Avenatti been wrong about, again? Remind me.

And Swetnick probably made the right hire for the statement she wanted to make. Look at how the media and Judiciary Committee have largely ignored Ramirez's counsel.

[ProudModerate2]

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[7,052,770]

Theory: Kavanaugh is claiming to be a choir boy virgin in high school despite all the evidence to the contrary because that's what he told his wife he was like back then and doesn't want to admit to a decades old lie to her.

He never claimed to be a choir boy. He never claimed he didn't drink regularly. He never claimed he didn't act like an idiot. What he claimed is he was a virgin, he didn't assault anyone or participate in any assaults on anyone, and he never drank in such a way that he couldn't remember what happened after.

And I think his denials are all BS, but speculate that they may be designed to keep his wife in the dark about his past more so than to fool the country.

Its pretty normal for people not to tell their spouse about prior sexual history, and he may have told her that he was a virgin and hid his wild past from her all these years.

[Brittain33]

Theory: Kavanaugh is claiming to be a choir boy virgin in high school despite all the evidence to the contrary because that's what he told his wife he was like back then and doesn't want to admit to a decades old lie to her.

He never claimed to be a choir boy. He never claimed he didn't drink regularly. He never claimed he didn't act like an idiot. What he claimed is he was a virgin, he didn't assault anyone or participate in any assaults on anyone, and he never drank in such a way that he couldn't remember what happened after.

And I think his denials are all BS, but speculate that they may be designed to keep his wife in the dark about his past more so than to fool the country.

Its pretty normal for people not to tell their spouse about prior sexual history, and he may have told her that he was a virgin and hid his wild past from her all these years.

Given how freely he lies, I can easily see that if his wife was a conservative, religious person, he would tell her what he thinks she needed to hear.

[Pragmatic Conservative]

https://mobile.twitter.com/politico/status/1044971068056842240