Virginia House 2022: After redistricting

[Antonio the Sixth]

Ah yes, so the answer is do some more useless virtue signaling and hand all the power to the Republicans and hope that they’ll suddenly have a change of heart and act in good faith

The Democrat party can't be the party fighting for voting rights and for electoral reform to give better representation while, at the same time, working to disenfranchise communities that don't naturally support them. It just doesn't work. They have to practice what they preach, or else they will become a meaningless opportunistic shell of a party.

One could make the argument that the GOP is so anti-Democracy and authoritarian that gerrymandering them should be done for voting rights.

"We had to destroy voting rights in order to save them."

Yes, are you slow? I don’t know which part of this is hard for you to comprehend

It's not hard to comprehend at all . It's just a f**king stupid argument.

[Gass3268]

Do Democrats even need to gerrymander Virginia to maintain power there? It's been trending their way for some time now and it seems like it's going to become a state where Democrats will enjoy unified govt more often than not, regardless if they gerrymander. Given enough time, the House map will probably be good to them even if it's not some brutal gerrymander. Without national reform, I question whether it's truly worth it to rig elections in every state possible. Democrats ought to just stay true to their rhetoric and end it if they can. Someone has to fix this system or we're going to be haunted by it forever in this country.

Would you consider this a gerrymander?

[Virginiá]

Do Democrats even need to gerrymander Virginia to maintain power there? It's been trending their way for some time now and it seems like it's going to become a state where Democrats will enjoy unified govt more often than not, regardless if they gerrymander. Given enough time, the House map will probably be good to them even if it's not some brutal gerrymander. Without national reform, I question whether it's truly worth it to rig elections in every state possible. Democrats ought to just stay true to their rhetoric and end it if they can. Someone has to fix this system or we're going to be haunted by it forever in this country.

Would you consider this a gerrymander?

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/profile_pictures/15134_1533466602.PNG

I mean, it really comes down to intent (among other things), doesn't it? That is Mizzouian's Virginia gerrymander (his words) - an 8D-3R map. A map doesn't have to look ugly to be a gerrymander.

I've said numerous times that I am very antsy about the idea of unilateral disarmament, where Democratic states stop gerrymandering but Republicans just sit back and laugh as they rig the hell out of their maps. I think if Democrats decide to push for full reform at the state-level, there ought to be a concrete plan to get most of America under fair maps within a decade or so, otherwise you could be looking at literally generations where Republicans maximize seats from their states while Democrats just roll over in theirs. This is why it is best to do it at the Congressional level, so all states are covered at the same time.

On the other hand, I'm also nervous at the thought that if Democrats punt reform in favor of gerrymandering with the vague excuse of ends justify the means, etc, where does it end? When do we get reform? Democrats are never going to control every US state at the same time, and maybe not even enough for a constitutional amendment - at least for a long time, so WHEN does reform finally get embraced by the party? The way I see it, this reasoning gives Democrats an excuse to never embrace reform, because Republicans will always be an electoral threat.

If you want to temporarily embrace gerrymandering"for the greater good, then you ought to flesh out exactly what scenario will lead to reform, otherwise it seems like we'll just allow this brazen political corruption to go on forever, and that is unacceptable to me.

[IceSpear]

My preferred solution is passing bills that mandate an independent commission which takes effect once Republican states do the same. That way the ball is in their court, but you're not unilaterally disarming either.

Of course, none of this would be necessary if SCOTUS would just outlaw this blatant election rigging. But alas, this is the world we live in. Allowing the GOP to rig elections with no response when it is blatantly clear the voters or media will not hold them accountable for it is the height of stupidity.

[junior chįmp]

My preferred solution is passing bills that mandate an independent commission which takes effect once Republican states do the same. That way the ball is in their court, but you're not unilaterally disarming either.

Of course, none of this would be necessary if SCOTUS would just outlaw this blatant election rigging. But alas, this is the world we live in. Allowing the GOP to rig elections with no response when it is blatantly clear the voters or media will not hold them accountable for it is the height of stupidity.

This is why I support gerrymandering against the Republicans. Just use their own tactics against them and see how quick they come to the negotiating table. Gerrymander the hell out of the GOP, shut down early voting in Republican areas, etc... and watch Republican legislators clamor to help pass voting rights legislation.

[Zaybay]

My preferred solution is passing bills that mandate an independent commission which takes effect once Republican states do the same. That way the ball is in their court, but you're not unilaterally disarming either.

Of course, none of this would be necessary if SCOTUS would just outlaw this blatant election rigging. But alas, this is the world we live in. Allowing the GOP to rig elections with no response when it is blatantly clear the voters or media will not hold them accountable for it is the height of stupidity.

This is why I support gerrymandering against the Republicans. Just use their own tactics against them and see how quick they come to the negotiating table. Gerrymander the hell out of the GOP, shut down early voting in Republican areas, etc... and watch Republican legislators clamor to help pass voting rights legislation.

I agree, by forcing the GOPs hand, by locking them out of the house, they will likely come to negotiate. The only reason Rs are for gerrymandering is because they mostly benefit, but if the shoe is on the other foot, then we may be able to come to a compromise. By making fair maps, not only does the GOP get an unfair advantage, there is no impetus for them to start to warm up to commissions.

Its a win-win.

[junior chįmp]

My preferred solution is passing bills that mandate an independent commission which takes effect once Republican states do the same. That way the ball is in their court, but you're not unilaterally disarming either.

Of course, none of this would be necessary if SCOTUS would just outlaw this blatant election rigging. But alas, this is the world we live in. Allowing the GOP to rig elections with no response when it is blatantly clear the voters or media will not hold them accountable for it is the height of stupidity.

This is why I support gerrymandering against the Republicans. Just use their own tactics against them and see how quick they come to the negotiating table. Gerrymander the hell out of the GOP, shut down early voting in Republican areas, etc... and watch Republican legislators clamor to help pass voting rights legislation.

I agree, by forcing the GOPs hand, by locking them out of the house, they will likely come to negotiate. The only reason Rs are for gerrymandering is because they mostly benefit, but if the shoe is on the other foot, then we may be able to come to a compromise. By making fair maps, not only does the GOP get an unfair advantage, there is no impetus for them to start to warm up to commissions.

Its a win-win.

Unfortunately, virtue signaling Democrats keep wasting time thinking that the GOP will come around without being given a reason to. I dont support gerrymandering or voter suppression but if its a tool that has to be used to achieve fairness than so be it.

[Virginiá]

My preferred solution is passing bills that mandate an independent commission which takes effect once Republican states do the same. That way the ball is in their court, but you're not unilaterally disarming either.

Of course, none of this would be necessary if SCOTUS would just outlaw this blatant election rigging. But alas, this is the world we live in. Allowing the GOP to rig elections with no response when it is blatantly clear the voters or media will not hold them accountable for it is the height of stupidity.

This is why I support gerrymandering against the Republicans. Just use their own tactics against them and see how quick they come to the negotiating table. Gerrymander the hell out of the GOP, shut down early voting in Republican areas, etc... and watch Republican legislators clamor to help pass voting rights legislation.

Ok, see, that's actually not a bad idea if you can ensure that Democrats actually only do all that gerrymandering specifically to force Republicans in Congress to pass redistricting reform. However, if politics has taught me anything, it's that politicians are absurdly short-term in their thinking and often selfish in their motives, so it's likely that once they gerrymander all those maps, they start to say to each other, "actually, you know what, let's just keep doing this. Maybe we can ensure we draw the maps in 2030 too!" And it just goes on and on like this, with each party thinking they can indefinitely rig elections only to find out that it only takes a bad election or two to hand that ability to the opposition (re: Republicans right now). And nothing ever changes. Further, once all those gerrymanders are set in stone for the decade, you're going to have a lot of selfish, opportunistic Democrats who would gladly sell out their party's future for a chance to advance their own political prospects - that is why you have turncoat Dems in numerous states doing bipartisan gerrymanders, or flat out voting for Republican gerrymanders just to score a safe seat for themselves. Who is to say they suddenly decide they don't want to give up a safe seat, or get a seat next redistricting cycle that is only D+7 vs, like D+15, or something stupid. Because, yes, some of them are like that.

So to me, it's just a lack of trust that they'll do the right thing when they have the ability to do so. Also, I get it, you're out for blood, I'm not that far behind you (I was agreeing that Democrats should make new states and pack SCOTUS), but it's not stupid, short-sighted or whatever to think about what we want for America in the future, namely less political corruption. I -refuse- to sink into a level of thinking where all I ever care about is winning the next election at any costs. There has to be more to this than just winning elections.

[wesmoorenerd]

Do Democrats even need to gerrymander Virginia to maintain power there? It's been trending their way for some time now and it seems like it's going to become a state where Democrats will enjoy unified govt more often than not, regardless if they gerrymander. Given enough time, the House map will probably be good to them even if it's not some brutal gerrymander. Without national reform, I question whether it's truly worth it to rig elections in every state possible. Democrats ought to just stay true to their rhetoric and end it if they can. Someone has to fix this system or we're going to be haunted by it forever in this country.

Would you consider this a gerrymander?

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/profile_pictures/15134_1533466602.PNG

I mean, it really comes down to intent (among other things), doesn't it? That is Mizzouian's Virginia gerrymander (his words) - an 8D-3R map. A map doesn't have to look ugly to be a gerrymander.

I've said numerous times that I am very antsy about the idea of unilateral disarmament, where Democratic states stop gerrymandering but Republicans just sit back and laugh as they rig the hell out of their maps. I think if Democrats decide to push for full reform at the state-level, there ought to be a concrete plan to get most of America under fair maps within a decade or so, otherwise you could be looking at literally generations where Republicans maximize seats from their states while Democrats just roll over in theirs. This is why it is best to do it at the Congressional level, so all states are covered at the same time.

On the other hand, I'm also nervous at the thought that if Democrats punt reform in favor of gerrymandering with the vague excuse of ends justify the means, etc, where does it end? When do we get reform? Democrats are never going to control every US state at the same time, and maybe not even enough for a constitutional amendment - at least for a long time, so WHEN does reform finally get embraced by the party? The way I see it, this reasoning gives Democrats an excuse to never embrace reform, because Republicans will always be an electoral threat.

If you want to temporarily embrace gerrymandering"for the greater good, then you ought to flesh out exactly what scenario will lead to reform, otherwise it seems like we'll just allow this brazen political corruption to go on forever, and that is unacceptable to me.

This sums up my thoughts pretty well. If Republicans are willing to sit down and commit to redistricting reform, then absolutely, we should institute nonpartisan commissions in each and every state. If they're not, then we should continue gerrymandering every state we can so as to not be put at a natural disadvantage. It's important to note that the former is preferable to the latter.

However, as usual, Dems take the pansy-ass third option. They take the moral high road and put themselves at a disadvantage. They allow Republicans to gerrymander the hell out of every state they control while refusing to gerrymander any of their own. Remember REDMAP? The Republicans will stop at nothing to control the districts in each and every state they can. Either both sides stop and institute a fair solution or both sides continue to fight dirty. Enough of this rolling over and moral pearl clutching. All it does is hurt us Democrats.