Pubs: If you strongly oppose Trump,why are you still a Pub when 88% support him?

[Torie]

88% (per a poll that just came out that created buzz) of Pubs support Trump (personally shocking to me, but whatever). So my question for Pubs is if you strongly oppose many of Trump's policies (too long a list of potential issues for me to name as a former Pub, but I resist putting up my list because it's not about me, but you), just why do you remain a Pub when 88% of Pubs like Trump's act? Is there really any room for you in a party that has embraced "that man?" Post Trump, will many Pubs segue away from his legacy, leaving more room for you to have much influence using that particular instrument to further your policy views? Or something else?

I know it sounds like a tendentious question, perhaps because it is somewhat, but I would be interested in your responses. I can empathize with the pain somewhat. Been there, done that. And I am not agitating that all such Pubs bail. That would be hubristic of me. No, I am genuinely interested in the comments, and hope that they will be honest and from the heart. I respect that.

[Santander]

Stephen Miller is probably jerking off over that approval percentage.

[mvd10]

I mainly keep the blue avatar to show off my centre-right affiliation in general tbh (there's life outside US general discussion you know). VVD forever . We probably averted our own Trump when Rita Verdonk lost the leadership election in 2006 to future PM Mark Rutte.

Trump is atrocious, but most GOP congressmen and governors are tolerable (if a bit spineless). I believe the GOP will largely get over Trump after he loses. Talk radio hosts and most GOP voters back whoever is in charge at the moment. If it's Trump they back Trump, if it's Haley they'll back Haley. Sure, someone might try to imitate Trump in 2024 but I don't think anyone could replicate Trump's victory. It was about the whole persona. Anyone could run on a Trumpist platform, but only Trump could actually win. I believe people who sort-off embraced Trump will largely take over the GOP if Trump loses in 2020 and they'll softly nudge it away from open Trumpism. Sure, identity issues will remain a wedge issue but it's not like I'm particularly #woke on identity issues anyway. Meanwhile the first demographic group the next Democratic president pisses off will be the Romney voters who switched to Clinton or stayed home. By 2024 hopefully things will be largely normal.

And anyway, I'm probably not a very good fit for the modern Democratic Party either.

[Vosem]

I think this is basically a misleading figure; if you survey people who identified as Republicans in 2015, you find about ~70% approval for Trump, and when you survey likely national Republican primary voters you find a similar figure in favor of renomination. The number of people identifying as Republicans took a decent hit in 2016 in spite of the somewhat successful year. My general conclusion is that a little less than 1-out-of-3 (something like 3-out-of-10) Republican-leaners are basically Trump opponents, and have stopped identifying with the party over Trump, while Trump made up for the loss of their support with the addition of independents, and a few Democrats, who were willing to give him a chance but didn't and don't identify with the Republican Party.

[RINO Tom]

It's just a box you check at voter registration, Torie.  And the party that - out of two - you think makes a better hypothetical vehicles for policies you support.  I have no connection to any other Republican's actions or views just by association with how I registered to vote and what color avatar I picked on Atlas.  If people disagree and want to lump me in with a Roy Moore voter in Alabama, okay?  LOL.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Because most of the Republican voters just approve Trump because he has the R next to his name . I bet the same would be true even if Jeb Bush was president right now .

[Republican Left]

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Why do you think they are spineless?

[TJ in Oregon]

Torie, a lot of it has to do with Trump's loudest critics being worse than him.

Then again, I don't think I could really say I do oppose most of his policies. Aside from his bizarre personal antics, I don't think he's been a bad president overall. For one thing the Middle East is looking better than it has in a decade, the economy's doing marginally better than mediocre, he's putting conservatives on the courts, and I think the "tolerance" craze has lost a little steam finally. Sure, you can list things he's screwed up too, but it hasn't been the sort of apocalypse I predicted it would be.

[RINO Tom]

Because Atlas RINOism is like a form of “pretend to be an alpha male Republican like Mike Naso” fetish I guess.

How does this answer Torie's question?  LOL

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

The Democrats supported slavery and segregation, until they didn't.  Was it wrong to be a Democrat in 1918?

I look at the achievements of both parties over the last two centuries and to me it looks like the Republicans have been more consistently on the side of what is good and right.  Obviously, a lot of people will disagree with me on this and there is plenty that Democrats can be proud of.  I'm not really looking to debate this right now.  Trump quite often embarrasses me as an American in a foreign country and he often embarrasses me as a Republican and a right-leaning person.  But he'll be gone by 2025 if not sooner, and life will go on.

[Intell]

The Democrats supported slavery and segregation, until they didn't.  Was it wrong to be a Democrat in 1918?

I look at the achievements of both parties over the last two centuries and to me it looks like the Republicans have been more consistently on the side of what is good and right.  Obviously, a lot of people will disagree with me on this and there is plenty that Democrats can be proud of.  I'm not really looking to debate this right now.  Trump quite often embarrasses me as an American in a foreign country and he often embarrasses me as a Republican and a right-leaning person.  But he'll be gone by 2025 if not sooner, and life will go on.

Yes, duhh.

[mvd10]

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Why do you think they are spineless?

Apart from a few people grandstanding they're not doing much to stop Trump. I don't mind that they vote with Trump 80% of the time (because overall I don't mind the majority of Trump's policies) but the least they could do is to stop the idiotic attacks on the Mueller investigation or to block the tariffs. Obviously they're too spineless to do it. Aside from the usual suspects they don't even dare to criticize Trump.

Because most of the Republican voters just approve Trump because he has the R next to his name . I bet the same would be true even if Jeb Bush was president right now .

I agree with this. Trump has brought in some ideological protectionists and he has scared away some moderate conservatives, but the vast majority of Republicans are partisan Republicans. Most partisan GOP voters support Trump's tariffs because they are Trump's tariffs. They're the people who pretty much blindly follow Rush Limbaugh and whoever is in charge of the GOP. We don't have any guarantee that the actual consistent Trumpists/populists will keep supporting the GOP post-Trump, and I strongly doubt that Romney voters who didn't vote for Trump will like the future Democratic Party too. The GOP doesn't even have to become a socially liberal party and abandon border security, there actually isn't a huge market for #woke intersectional open border policies with college-educated Romney voters that dislike Trump. The problem is just that Trump's gang is basically open about being the new Know Nothing white grievance candidates, which pisses off the only growing demographic that used to vote Republican.

[SATW]

I'm not anti-Trump but I have criticized him heavily on a series of topics (i.e. immigration, tariffs, rhetoric, his attacks on the press etc...).

My main reason for supporting the GOP is that it is less worse to me, ideologically and also sometimes rhetorically.

the GOP and I still share policy views about 80% of the time.

[IceSpear]

The Democrats supported slavery and segregation, until they didn't.  Was it wrong to be a Democrat in 1918?

I look at the achievements of both parties over the last two centuries and to me it looks like the Republicans have been more consistently on the side of what is good and right.  Obviously, a lot of people will disagree with me on this and there is plenty that Democrats can be proud of.  I'm not really looking to debate this right now.  Trump quite often embarrasses me as an American in a foreign country and he often embarrasses me as a Republican and a right-leaning person.  But he'll be gone by 2025 if not sooner, and life will go on.

Yes, duhh.

[Dr. MB]

The Democrats supported slavery and segregation, until they didn't.  Was it wrong to be a Democrat in 1918?

I look at the achievements of both parties over the last two centuries and to me it looks like the Republicans have been more consistently on the side of what is good and right.  Obviously, a lot of people will disagree with me on this and there is plenty that Democrats can be proud of.  I'm not really looking to debate this right now.  Trump quite often embarrasses me as an American in a foreign country and he often embarrasses me as a Republican and a right-leaning person.  But he'll be gone by 2025 if not sooner, and life will go on.

Yes, duhh.

Actually, nah. Both parties were big-tent and not every Democrat was a Southern Democrat.

[TJ in Oregon]

Because Atlas RINOism is like a form of “pretend to be an alpha male Republican like Mike Naso” fetish I guess.

You've gone so meta I can't even tell who you're insulting anymore.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

The Democrats supported slavery and segregation, until they didn't.  Was it wrong to be a Democrat in 1918?

I look at the achievements of both parties over the last two centuries and to me it looks like the Republicans have been more consistently on the side of what is good and right.  Obviously, a lot of people will disagree with me on this and there is plenty that Democrats can be proud of.  I'm not really looking to debate this right now.  Trump quite often embarrasses me as an American in a foreign country and he often embarrasses me as a Republican and a right-leaning person.  But he'll be gone by 2025 if not sooner, and life will go on.

Yes, duhh.

When did it become acceptable to be a Democrat?

[Intell]

The Democrats supported slavery and segregation, until they didn't.  Was it wrong to be a Democrat in 1918?

I look at the achievements of both parties over the last two centuries and to me it looks like the Republicans have been more consistently on the side of what is good and right.  Obviously, a lot of people will disagree with me on this and there is plenty that Democrats can be proud of.  I'm not really looking to debate this right now.  Trump quite often embarrasses me as an American in a foreign country and he often embarrasses me as a Republican and a right-leaning person.  But he'll be gone by 2025 if not sooner, and life will go on.

Yes, duhh.

When did it become acceptable to be a Democrat?

1933 at first, 1948 with full acceptableness.

[DC Al Fine]

Abortion

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

The Democrats supported slavery and segregation, until they didn't.  Was it wrong to be a Democrat in 1918?

I look at the achievements of both parties over the last two centuries and to me it looks like the Republicans have been more consistently on the side of what is good and right.  Obviously, a lot of people will disagree with me on this and there is plenty that Democrats can be proud of.  I'm not really looking to debate this right now.  Trump quite often embarrasses me as an American in a foreign country and he often embarrasses me as a Republican and a right-leaning person.  But he'll be gone by 2025 if not sooner, and life will go on.

Yes, duhh.

When did it become acceptable to be a Democrat?

1933 at first, 1948 with full acceptableness.

So the Democrats who fought the KKK in their party during the '20s were also terrible people?

[Intell]

The Democrats supported slavery and segregation, until they didn't.  Was it wrong to be a Democrat in 1918?

I look at the achievements of both parties over the last two centuries and to me it looks like the Republicans have been more consistently on the side of what is good and right.  Obviously, a lot of people will disagree with me on this and there is plenty that Democrats can be proud of.  I'm not really looking to debate this right now.  Trump quite often embarrasses me as an American in a foreign country and he often embarrasses me as a Republican and a right-leaning person.  But he'll be gone by 2025 if not sooner, and life will go on.

Yes, duhh.

When did it become acceptable to be a Democrat?

1933 at first, 1948 with full acceptableness.

So the Democrats who fought the KKK in their party during the '20s were also terrible people?

The democrats that nominated John Davis, yes. Obviously, there were members that became democrats out of necessity against the NE WASP elite, which is fine but obviously, the national democratic party was tied to segregation and racism up until 1948.

So why is it alright to support the Democrats from 1933? The new deal helped the lives of poor people of all races (whites more than blacks). Otherwise what reason was there to be a democrat with no democrat ever for president looking out for the poor and working class. You could either be a republican or third party (socialist).

[TPIG]

For me, it's a very intricate situation. I'm not a die-hard, pro-Trump Republican, nor a never-Trumper; I'm a "sometimes-Trumper". I abhor many of Donald Trump's personal qualities, such as his complete lack of humility, boorishness, and sense of victimhood. I also take major issue with some of his policies and rhetoric as president - such as his starting of trade wars, his shameful rhetoric towards Russia, and his disregard for exploding the deficit, and the moves to cut legal immigration.

At the same time, he has pursued many policies I favor strongly - deregulation of the economy, tax cuts, withdrawal from the Iran deal, stronger border enforcement, reshaping the Federal courts to have a more conservative/originalist bent, and strengthening the military. How I handle this balance of things I like about him and things I don't is the real issue.

So, in a sense, I feel stuck. I can't bring myself to support the Democratic Party, with its continuous shifting ever-leftward. I also feel out of touch with my current party that's so focused on a cult-of-personality instead of the Constitutional principles that made our Republic great. In the end, I'll support Trump when he does things I like and drop him like a rock when he does things I don't. I'd vote for whomever primaries him in 2020, and will still have to see how I feel about voting for him in the general.

Overall, the GOP is still the best vehicle for promoting policies I like, which is why I'm still a Republican, and all I can do is hope that after Trump is gone, my party returns to its roots.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

The Democrats supported slavery and segregation, until they didn't.  Was it wrong to be a Democrat in 1918?

I look at the achievements of both parties over the last two centuries and to me it looks like the Republicans have been more consistently on the side of what is good and right.  Obviously, a lot of people will disagree with me on this and there is plenty that Democrats can be proud of.  I'm not really looking to debate this right now.  Trump quite often embarrasses me as an American in a foreign country and he often embarrasses me as a Republican and a right-leaning person.  But he'll be gone by 2025 if not sooner, and life will go on.

Yes, duhh.

When did it become acceptable to be a Democrat?

1933 at first, 1948 with full acceptableness.

So the Democrats who fought the KKK in their party during the '20s were also terrible people?

The democrats that nominated John Davis, yes. Obviously, there were members that became democrats out of necessity against the NE WASP elite, which is fine but obviously, the national democratic party was tied to segregation and racism up until 1948.

So why is it alright to support the Democrats from 1933? The new deal helped the lives of poor people of all races (whites more than blacks). Otherwise what reason was there to be a democrat with no democrat ever for president looking out for the poor and working class. You could either be a republican or third party (socialist).

This is incredibly stupid.

[TheSaint250]

A few reasons, the top few of which are:

1. My identification with the GOP stretches back to my ancestors coming to this nation as proud Americans choosing a party that reflects the American Dream. I'm not going to throw away years of party identity just because I don't like the guy in charge.

2. Every time I consider leaving, the demagoguery of the left seems to reappear and center on "if you're not with us, then you're against America."

3. The false, vicious, demagogic, inflammatory, libelous/slanderous language from many on the left quite literally gives me feelings of anxiety and sadness to the point that I feel compelled to stick with the GOP. I am sickened hearing about members of my family are evil sub-humans hell-bent on destroying the global order because they support Trump.  It enrages me to my core.  And this is without even directly mentioning decades upon decades of false attacks of racism, sexism, xenophobia, or whatever. The fact that so many treat Republicans as lifeless punching bags is disheartening.

I may be more socially left-wing than many Republicans, but polling is showing the party coming around. Also, on economic issues, I'd rather stick with the party that would be content with fiscal conservatism/responsibility if done correctly than the party that just says "See? Republican politicians aren't fiscally responsible!" but then attack anyone in their party for attempting to become fiscally responsible.

4. I truly believe that sticking around will lead to contributing to a reformed party freed from the terrible politicians like Trump and others at the top who don't represent or advocate for the views of the party members who are much more compromising.

5. Many #woke Republicans-turned-independents are openly supporting candidates they a.) were attacked by with stupid, hateful, and false insults and b.) spent years attacking for their bad policies. I would feel more attracted to becoming an independent if maybe the former Republican crowd wasn't more hypocritical than Trump at times.

---

I may remain a Republican, but I will always feel free to vote my conscience. I am a moderate and will vote for moderates in the hopes that the party will sway back in that direction a few years from now under new direction.

Also, people like Charlie Baker, Phil Scott, and Larry Hogan are evidence that you can still be a non-Trump-supporting Republican.