SB 2018-260: Fixing Deregistration Act (passed)

[Mr. Reactionary]

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Sponsor: Ninja0428

[Sirius_]

I'm sure you all know about the crisis of voluntary deregistration not being legally allowed and all of the problems that has caused. This simply gives the practice legal status which hopefully will end this nonsense. I would like to ask my fellow senators how they would feel about a retroactive clause.

[Mr. Reactionary]

I support either retroactively extending it or stripping federal courts of the jurisdiction to hear cases on the matter prior to passage.

[Sestak]

The jurisdiction removal is probably better.

[tmthforu94]

A few things to consider: do senators think there should be a timeframe on when a person is allowed to rejoin the game? Also, does the 6 month region-move window still apply to them, how will that work? In addition, previously folks were allowed to cancel a deregistration within 24 hours if they change their minds.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'm sure you all know about the crisis of voluntary deregistration not being legally allowed and all of the problems that has caused. This simply gives the practice legal status which hopefully will end this nonsense. I would like to ask my fellow senators how they would feel about a retroactive clause.

The non-existence of voluntary deregistration is not a crisis. The fact that people mistakenly thought it was allowed and acted as if it was only to find out it was wasn't is what caused the present crisis.

We must always be careful and mindful to avoid attributing to the system consequences resulting from human error, laziness and stupidity.

Plus there is as I have long said a benefit to not having at-will deregistration because all of the numerous scandals and controversies we had had over the past several years as a result of it existing. Such that would not exist if people just left of their own accord and if he didn't return within three elections, they would have to re-register.

Let no one be mistaken, the presence or absence of at-will deregistration is not an issue of whether or not people can leave the game. People have had no problem leaving the game without using at-will deregistration. This was the case from 2008 to 2013, when At-will deregistration was not allowed and most of the prominent players who have left since have lot via falling off the rolls, not through at-will deregistration. This is even more the case among those who left for good.

Without at-will deregistration you don't have to worry about cool down periods or wait times, or take back periods. People can just leave, if they return before 3 missed elections they are still on the rolls, if it is afterwards they can just reregister, with no restrictions.

I think that arrangement is superior then creating this supposedly "Voluntary" means of leaving the game (at-will deregistration), but in order to sustain such we have to then "lock them up" for several weeks or months so that this "free" process will have "consequences". What the hell is this? This isn't freedom. This is a mess of contorted logic and reason that traps people out of the game, has frequently been the cause of numerous crisis itself and then all in the name of a superficial "freedom to leave", which already exists anyway. You can exit this board and never look back, right now. No one is stopping you and your username on a spreadsheet certainly isn't the locked door some seem to think of it as.

At-will Deregistration is an Orwellian bait and switch that promises a freedom and delivers fascism. It gives you a freedom you already have and then locks you out of the game for the privilege. And as soon as this passes, the drum beat for "Deregistration Consequences" starts up again, and it may even be done here in this thread via amendment.

I will never sign any bill that locks people out of the game, for sure. We need to be debating how to get people in, then coming up with new and improve ways to lock them out. People should be able to make their own decisions both to leave and return without the iron boot of the state getting in the way. If you can convince me that at-will deregistration is beneficial on its own and that it won't lead to people being locked in a cage unable to return, I might consider signing this bill as it stands now.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I support either retroactively extending it or stripping federal courts of the jurisdiction to hear cases on the matter prior to passage.

The jurisdiction removal is probably better.

I don't think either of those are constitutional:
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Article_III_of_the_Fourth_Constitution
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Article_V_of_the_Fourth_Constitution#Section_3_.28Jurisdiction.29

[wxtransit]

I'm going to have to agree with Yankee here, I feel the government shouldn't be protecting people from themselves with "cool down" periods or whatnot, and deregistering by falling off the rolls seems like a better way. I'm not completely convinced, though, so I'm open to hearing arguments from the other side.

[Mr. Reactionary]

I'm going to have to agree with Yankee here, I feel the government shouldn't be protecting people from themselves with "cool down" periods or whatnot, and deregistering by falling off the rolls seems like a better way. I'm not completely convinced, though, so I'm open to hearing arguments from the other side.

Well for starters it slows the game down if we have to wait a few weeks just to be able to expel someone who ghosts.

It also subjects players who quit to months of unwanted PMs.

[wxtransit]

I'm going to have to agree with Yankee here, I feel the government shouldn't be protecting people from themselves with "cool down" periods or whatnot, and deregistering by falling off the rolls seems like a better way. I'm not completely convinced, though, so I'm open to hearing arguments from the other side.

Well for starters it slows the game down if we have to wait a few weeks just to be able to expel someone who ghosts.

It also subjects players who quit to months of unwanted PMs.

Doesn't a wait period (one bill proposed 7 days after a deregister it takes effect) do the same?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'm going to have to agree with Yankee here, I feel the government shouldn't be protecting people from themselves with "cool down" periods or whatnot, and deregistering by falling off the rolls seems like a better way. I'm not completely convinced, though, so I'm open to hearing arguments from the other side.

Well for starters it slows the game down if we have to wait a few weeks just to be able to expel someone who ghosts.

It also subjects players who quit to months of unwanted PMs.

1. That has not nothing to do with deregistration. That is the failure to resign affirmatively. Also the present expulsion procedure is 7 days of inactivity, which can be worked around by having like 4 sponsors. It was much longer back in the day.

2. Grassroots was allowed to fall off the rolls and we made sure no one PMed him within the Federalists after he asked us not to contact him. Of course less organized parties and independents might not be as respectful but we try to maintain such in our lists. There are also other ways to mitigate that and if nothing else, there is the delete button.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'm going to have to agree with Yankee here, I feel the government shouldn't be protecting people from themselves with "cool down" periods or whatnot, and deregistering by falling off the rolls seems like a better way. I'm not completely convinced, though, so I'm open to hearing arguments from the other side.

Well for starters it slows the game down if we have to wait a few weeks just to be able to expel someone who ghosts.

It also subjects players who quit to months of unwanted PMs.

Doesn't a wait period (one bill proposed 7 days after a deregister it takes effect) do the same?

It also has the added problem of people beginning people to return and not go through with it.

[Sirius_]

We ought to get this moving along.

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24 hours to object.

[Sirius_]

With 24 hours having passed the amendment is adopted. Are there any more comments from the senate?

[Vern]

It seems good to me

[Poirot]

What does this do?

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If you have deregistered then you can't cast a valid vote. If you "attempted" deregistration then you should be deregistered period. I don't see the point of the part about the desire to remain a citizen. If you attempted to deregister you just have to register again, I don't think there is a waiting period.

Those who wanted to be deregistered are deregistered. If they change their mind they register again. Sounds simple.

[Sirius_]

Given recent events, I'm going to be amending this once again and I would like to vote after the amendment is adopted.

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[Mr. Reactionary]

No objections to the amendment

[Sirius_]

The amendment is adopted. I motion for a final vote. 24 hours to object.

[Mr. Reactionary]

No objections to the motion.

[Adam Griffin]

I think the wording in Section 2 is a bit problematic if one were to get really technical about such things...I keep reading it and it makes me think that if somebody resigns from office, they're acquiescing to being automatically de-registered.

Nevertheless, I suppose I won't object unless somebody else thinks it is a problem, but given where we are now - and the fact that it is clearly not a "crisis" that people merely have to fade into the night rather than execute an old Atlas tradition of formally storming out to make a statement - I won't be voting for de-registration's return.

[Mr. Reactionary]

A final vote is now open lasting 72 hours or until everyone votes whichever occurs soonest.

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[Sirius_]

Aye

[F. Joe Haydn]

Aye

[Mr. Reactionary]

Aye