Abolish ICE Thread: (Gillibrand\Warren in favor, Klobuchar against )

[NEW JERSEY FOR MENENDEZ]

Amy Klobuchar is 100% right.

She's right in that we need to change the laws, but we need to change the laws AND abolish ICE and replace it with something way less disgusting and inhumane.

You can do that by just changing the policies and REFORMING ICE.

Such reforms would be so major that it's the same as abolishing it but "abolition" is a scary radical word I guess.

Saying abolish ICE puts us vulnerable for being depicted pro-open borders, a position a majority of Americans are against. We can't afford another 4 years of Trump (or Pence if Trump is taken down by Mueller)

Y'all really want to play nice with agents shepherding kids into camps and being torn away from parents because of "muh electability"?

Firing👏Bad👏Agents👏Is👏Part👏Of👏Reform👏

I still don't have any idea what the actual substance of this debate is about.  What is the functional difference between "abolish and replace" vs. "reform"?  To me, it sounds like they're the same thing with different names.

I mean they're pretty similar but have different results (one being ICE removed and the other having ICE being seriously overhauled). Also, "reform" can't be twisted by the right like "abolish" to make us sound like we're pro-open borders (a position that I and a majority of Americans do not support).

[tosk]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

don't even pretend there's any comparrison between the two. your ideology is severely blinding you.

[NEW JERSEY FOR MENENDEZ]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

don't even pretend there's any comparrison between the two. your ideology is severely blinding you.

The whole "they're just following orders" argument is stupid. That's the point of this post.

[Mr. Morden]

I mean they're pretty similar but have different results (one being ICE removed and the other having ICE being seriously overhauled).

I don't understand that distinction.  If you "remove" ICE but "replace" it with another agency that has many of the same responsibilities, then in what sense was it removed?  Isn't the new thing then just the same as a "reformed ICE" with a different name?

[tosk]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

don't even pretend there's any comparrison between the two. your ideology is severely blinding you.

The whole "they're just following orders" argument is stupid. That's the point of this post.

no-- because it's accurate. if you don't like the law, change the law. the executive branch is supposed to enforce the laws passed by congress per the constitution. that's whats happened now and during the obama years and before that. it's ridiculously polarizing to just casually throw around comparisons to Nazis and then just say "I'm just saying that argument is stupid". If that's all your trying to say just say it and provide some substance instead of some character assassination.

[NEW JERSEY FOR MENENDEZ]

I mean they're pretty similar but have different results (one being ICE removed and the other having ICE being seriously overhauled).

I don't understand that distinction.  If you "remove" ICE but "replace" it with another agency that has many of the same responsibilities, then in what sense was it removed?  Isn't the new thing then just the same as a "reformed ICE" with a different name?

I think I worded what I said poorly. Reforming ICE does NOT mean getting rid of it, it means overhauling it.

[NEW JERSEY FOR MENENDEZ]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

don't even pretend there's any comparrison between the two. your ideology is severely blinding you.

The whole "they're just following orders" argument is stupid. That's the point of this post.

no-- because it's accurate. if you don't like the law, change the law. the executive branch is supposed to enforce the laws passed by congress per the constitution. that's whats happened now and during the obama years and before that. it's ridiculously polarizing to just casually throw around comparisons to Nazis and then just say "I'm just saying that argument is stupid". If that's all your trying to say just say it and provide some substance instead of some character assassination.

What?? The argument is stupid because Grass was making excuses for ICE by saying "its the law," so I tried to say that that's not an excuse and (obviously you didn't pick up on this) implied that the laws need to be changed.

[Mr. Morden]

I mean they're pretty similar but have different results (one being ICE removed and the other having ICE being seriously overhauled).

I don't understand that distinction.  If you "remove" ICE but "replace" it with another agency that has many of the same responsibilities, then in what sense was it removed?  Isn't the new thing then just the same as a "reformed ICE" with a different name?

I think I worded what I said poorly. Reforming ICE does NOT mean getting rid of it, it means overhauling it.

No, I understand that part.  I'm asking what "abolish ICE" means.  For those who advocate getting rid of ICE but replacing it with something else, what makes that new agency they want to create different from what ICE would be in the scenario where you reform ICE?

What does "abolishing ICE" entail exactly?  All the employees get fired and the buildings get sold off, or what?  And then what?  The next day you hire a bunch of new people to do some of the jobs that ICE did that you want to retain?

[NEW JERSEY FOR MENENDEZ]

I mean they're pretty similar but have different results (one being ICE removed and the other having ICE being seriously overhauled).

I don't understand that distinction.  If you "remove" ICE but "replace" it with another agency that has many of the same responsibilities, then in what sense was it removed?  Isn't the new thing then just the same as a "reformed ICE" with a different name?

I think I worded what I said poorly. Reforming ICE does NOT mean getting rid of it, it means overhauling it.

No, I understand that part.  I'm asking what "abolish ICE" means.  For those who advocate getting rid of ICE but replacing it with something else, what makes that new agency they want to create different from what ICE would be in the scenario where you reform ICE?

What does "abolishing ICE" entail exactly?  All the employees get fired and the buildings get sold off, or what?  And then what?  The next day you hire a bunch of new people to do some of the jobs that ICE did that you want to retain?

I don't support abolishing ICE, but I've heard some people support abolishing ICE and replacing it, others just get rid of it all together. You have to ask supporters of abolishing ICE to get a clear answer.

The problem, however, is that "abolish" can be twisted by the right to depict Democrats as pro-open borders. Reform sounds much better. It's an electability issue, really.

[Grassroots]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

I find it incredibly strange that you would compare what is happening at the border to nazi germany. It really shows why the democratic party is losing voters. Way to be separated from reality.

[Beet]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

I find it incredibly strange that you would compare what is happening at the border to nazi germany. It really shows why the democratic party is losing voters. Way to be separated from reality.

Exactly. These aliens are the ones invading our country. If anything, the illegals are the Nazis and ICE are the heroic resistance partisans.

[NEW JERSEY FOR MENENDEZ]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

I find it incredibly strange that you would compare what is happening at the border to nazi germany. It really shows why the democratic party is losing voters. Way to be separated from reality.

Exactly. These aliens are the ones invading our country. If anything, the illegals are the Nazis and ICE are the heroic resistance partisans.

Those kids are so dangerous, they're like the Waffen SS on steroids! /s

[Beet]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

I find it incredibly strange that you would compare what is happening at the border to nazi germany. It really shows why the democratic party is losing voters. Way to be separated from reality.

Exactly. These aliens are the ones invading our country. If anything, the illegals are the Nazis and ICE are the heroic resistance partisans.

Those kids are so dangerous, they're like the Waffen SS on steroids! /s

They are bringing "kids" to insidiously tug at your heartstrings so you will let them stay. If Western civilization is to survive, it has to find the will to stand up and say, 'No.' With what Trump is doing, I am confident that others in Central America will be deterred from coming.

[Dr. Arch]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

I find it incredibly strange that you would compare what is happening at the border to nazi germany. It really shows why the democratic party is losing voters. Way to be separated from reality.

Exactly. These aliens are the ones invading our country. If anything, the illegals are the Nazis and ICE are the heroic resistance partisans.

Lmao. You're having a rough week huh?

[Mr. Morden]

Eric Holder, who's still saying he might run for prez next year, not on board with this:

http://thehill.com/homenews/396989-eric-holder-calls-to-abolish-ice-are-a-gift-to-republicans

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[MAINEiac4434]

Eric Holder’s a cop so it’s not surprising.

I will not support any candidate who does not pledge to abolish ICE in the general election. There is no practical reason for its existence.

[CookieDamage]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

I find it incredibly strange that you would compare what is happening at the border to nazi germany. It really shows why the democratic party is losing voters. Way to be separated from reality.

Exactly. These aliens are the ones invading our country. If anything, the illegals are the Nazis and ICE are the heroic resistance partisans.

Lmao. You're having a rough week huh?

Has Beet always been a white supremacist?

[Dr. Arch]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

I find it incredibly strange that you would compare what is happening at the border to nazi germany. It really shows why the democratic party is losing voters. Way to be separated from reality.

Exactly. These aliens are the ones invading our country. If anything, the illegals are the Nazis and ICE are the heroic resistance partisans.

Lmao. You're having a rough week huh?

Has Beet always been a white supremacist?

No. He just snapped and has assumed the persona of one.

[Cuca_Beludo]

"Reform ICE"
"We need something that actually works"

We all know what that means: catch-and-release and full citizenship for virtually all illegal immigrants.

That's what dems want and that's actually a pretty good thing for them. I mean, what political party wouldn't want millions of new voters so they can easily stay in power?

[Grassroots]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

I find it incredibly strange that you would compare what is happening at the border to nazi germany. It really shows why the democratic party is losing voters. Way to be separated from reality.

Exactly. These aliens are the ones invading our country. If anything, the illegals are the Nazis and ICE are the heroic resistance partisans.

Lmao. You're having a rough week huh?

Has Beet always been a white supremacist?

No. He just snapped and has assumed the persona of one.

Again, having a very realistic viewpoint somehow makes you a white supremacist? Another reason why the democrats won't win back the working class, or the presidency, for quite a while.

Countries have borders, we cannot just random people in here. They have to come in the legal way. If they do not come in the legal way, there has to be a consequence. It's not fair to the people coming in the legal way, for some to just hop the border into our country. Open borders also makes it harder for us to figure out and/or locate potential criminals, drug traffickers, etc.

Yes, most of these people want a better life here, but they need to come in the legal way.

Our country is not a liberal fantasyland. I can't believe I have to explain this stuff to you people, the open-border fetishism is ever worse here than it is on my inner-city college campus.

"Reform ICE"
"We need something that actually works"

We all know what that means: catch-and-release and full citizenship for virtually all illegal immigrants.

That's what dems want and that's actually a pretty good thing for them. I mean, what political party wouldn't want millions of new voters so they can easily stay in power?

Of course it's better for democratic leadership, they're free new voters. That's why the dems are shilling for it. Problem is, its bad for the country, and just encourages more people to simply cross the border without signing or doing anything. But I guess it helps the democrats.

[Progressive Pessimist]

"Reform ICE"
"We need something that actually works"

We all know what that means: catch-and-release and full citizenship for virtually all illegal immigrants.

That's what dems want and that's actually a pretty good thing for them. I mean, what political party wouldn't want millions of new voters so they can easily stay in power?

Oh no! Not another one! This misses the point in such a spectacular way.

[CookieDamage]

To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

I find it incredibly strange that you would compare what is happening at the border to nazi germany. It really shows why the democratic party is losing voters. Way to be separated from reality.

Exactly. These aliens are the ones invading our country. If anything, the illegals are the Nazis and ICE are the heroic resistance partisans.

Lmao. You're having a rough week huh?

Has Beet always been a white supremacist?

No. He just snapped and has assumed the persona of one.

Again, having a very realistic viewpoint somehow makes you a white supremacist? Another reason why the democrats won't win back the working class, or the presidency, for quite a while.

Countries have borders, we cannot just random people in here. They have to come in the legal way. If they do not come in the legal way, there has to be a consequence. It's not fair to the people coming in the legal way, for some to just hop the border into our country. Open borders also makes it harder for us to figure out and/or locate potential criminals, drug traffickers, etc.

Yes, most of these people want a better life here, but they need to come in the legal way.

Our country is not a liberal fantasyland. I can't believe I have to explain this stuff to you people, the open-border fetishism is ever worse here than it is on my inner-city college campus.

"Reform ICE"
"We need something that actually works"

We all know what that means: catch-and-release and full citizenship for virtually all illegal immigrants.

That's what dems want and that's actually a pretty good thing for them. I mean, what political party wouldn't want millions of new voters so they can easily stay in power?

Of course it's better for democratic leadership, they're free new voters. That's why the dems are shilling for it. Problem is, its bad for the country, and just encourages more people to simply cross the border without signing or doing anything. But I guess it helps the democrats.

Beet defended kids saying they dont want Mexicans in this country and said something like "at a certain point we have to stand up to demographic change and say enough is enough" which definitely sounds quasi violent and in favor of some sort of mass deportation of Mexicans, which is of course ethnic cleansing. Beet is a white supremacist, and you're acting as a white supremacist apologist, which of course makes you a white supremacist in general. Also, you are a d**chebag.

[SCNCmod]

I haven't read this thread... but I think abolishing ICE is not a well thought out position.  Something like "reform ICE" ... or more astutely "actually get a comprehensive immigration bill through congress" is the position Dems should take.