Is ILLEGAL Immigration a PROBLEM? Or is ILLEGAL Immigration OK With You?

[Dr. Arch]

Criminal (violent) illegal immigrants are a problem, that's it.  And it's about #40 on the list of problems in America right now.

[Suburbia]

Really don't understand the mentality of liberals who say it's a problem but not a big one. Seems like the ultimate moderate heroism.

If you're one of these people, why exactly do you think illegal immigration is a problem at all?

You seem to acknowledge in the abstract that it's not ideal but you can't name any concrete drawbacks and don't actually mind if people do it anyway.

Are you just dishonest open borders supporters?

[DINGO Joe]

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/22/622246815/unauthorized-immigration-in-three-graphs

The total number of people apprehended for illegally crossing the southern U.S. border has been steadily falling for almost two decades. It's a long-term trend that sociologists, economists and federal officials have been tracking for years.

There has been a sharp decline in the number of Mexicans trying to enter the US over the last couple of decades and an increase in the number of Central American asylum seekers.  Of course, since there are far more Mexicans and they are closer, their decline far outweighs the increase.

The graphs are pretty striking.

Immigrants (illegal and legal) frequently fill pretty awful jobs in the US frequently in agriculture and food processing, or they appear as a ready workforce after an event like a hurricane. Their impact on crime is minimal and as with every other other demographic the vast majority of their crime is against their own.  Of course, in the name of diversity of opinion and just a general byproduct of the Trump era, we have to put up with drooling mudeaters and their alternative "facts" that have no basis in reality.

In fact, given the baby boomers progression towards death, we will need more immigrants or else go the way of the Japanese.

I mean look at pathethic WV.  They have 260,000 people between 55 and 64 and only 200,000 under the age of 10.  What's going to make up that kind of demographic gap?

https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

[TheSaint250]

It is a problem, and we should work to strengthen the border, but we should also ease the legal immigration process and grant amnesty to those currently here with some conditions (namely, employment). As pointed out above, many illegal immigrants are filling in jobs some Americans won't take, which helps our economy.

To summarize, let's reduce instances of it but do that in terms of helping them integrate into American society through legal means.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

This whole "My grandpa and grandma came here from Germany/Italy/Ireland/Spain/Sweden/etc. LEGALLY!" trope is one of the biggest right-wing myths ever trotted out.

OF COURSE your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandpa came here "legally."  THERE WAS NO IMMIGRATION LAW IN 18-whatever AS WE KNOW IT TODAY.  You didn't have thousands upon thousands upon thousands of statutes and regulations covering immigration law that rival only the US Tax Code in scope, complexity, and difficulty. 

All you really needed was to prove that you weren't carrying any dreadful diseases and that you weren't a criminal or tied to any current foreign enemy, and you were good as gold to come in.

So, the whole "legal vs. illegal" thing needs to stop.

We had no standards in the past so now we are bound to have no standards forever?

Why are we bound to have the same immigration law we had in 1900 as opposed to the immigration law we had in 1950?

Why are we bound to have the same immigration law we had in 1900 but not the same laws regarding racial segregation we had in 1950?

"We did this in the past so we have to do it this way now" is a dumb argument.

I agree with you about the distinction between illegal and legal immigration needs to go.

We're full. We shouldn't allow either.

Wrong.

[ProudModerate2]

Really don't understand the mentality of liberals who say it's a problem but not a big one. Seems like the ultimate moderate heroism.

If you're one of these people, why exactly do you think illegal immigration is a problem at all?

You seem to acknowledge in the abstract that it's not ideal but you can't name any concrete drawbacks and don't actually mind if people do it anyway.

Are you just dishonest open borders supporters?

So says you, the one who gives "dishonest" facts.

[gerritcole]

With voting trends the way they are, the left knows that all these people will be dems for life. That's why there's tacit approval of illegal immigration. they could not care less about the moral/humanitarian aspect of it all

[Dr. Arch]

With voting trends the way they are, the left knows that all these people will be dems for life. That's why there's tacit approval of illegal immigration. they could not care less about the moral/humanitarian aspect of it all

It's indescribably sad how the only way you can reason why many of us care is because of "voting trends." Really, it takes "voting trends" to care about crimes against humanity, such as child internment camps and not treating others with basic human decency? Reevaluate yourself.

[ProudModerate2]

With voting trends the way they are, the left knows that all these people will be dems for life. That's why there's tacit approval of illegal immigration. they could not care less about the moral/humanitarian aspect of it all

It's indescribably sad how the only way you can reason why many of us care is because of "voting trends." Really, it takes "voting trends" to care about crimes against humanity, such as child internment camps and not treating others with basic human decency? Reevaluate yourself.

I was thinking the same thing.
For someone to make a comment like that, shows they don't have much humanity. They themselves have no "moral/humanitarian aspect" on this critical topic, so to just brush it off as "politics is the priority" comes easy to them.

[gerritcole]

With voting trends the way they are, the left knows that all these people will be dems for life. That's why there's tacit approval of illegal immigration. they could not care less about the moral/humanitarian aspect of it all

It's indescribably sad how the only way you can reason why many of us care is because of "voting trends." Really, it takes "voting trends" to care about crimes against humanity, such as child internment camps and not treating others with basic human decency? Reevaluate yourself.

We're talking about illegal immigration in a broad sense. i oppose the family separation policy and use of underfunded camps with limited resources.

[gerritcole]

With voting trends the way they are, the left knows that all these people will be dems for life. That's why there's tacit approval of illegal immigration. they could not care less about the moral/humanitarian aspect of it all

Question to Republicans: If immigrants started voting Republican, would the GOP take their feet off their necks?

Are you referring to the base or elected officials? If immigrants were right leaning, i imagine officials would be less opposed but the base would still be vehemently against it. it would be like the gop of the past, where business interests (agriculture, service industry) supported immigration while the base did not.

[SteveRogers]

Really don't understand the mentality of liberals who say it's a problem but not a big one. Seems like the ultimate moderate heroism.

If you're one of these people, why exactly do you think illegal immigration is a problem at all?

You seem to acknowledge in the abstract that it's not ideal but you can't name any concrete drawbacks and don't actually mind if people do it anyway.

Are you just dishonest open borders supporters?

Shouldn’t the burden be on your side to convince us that illegal immigration is such a serious problem that the only reasonable solution is to put children in concentration camps?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

With voting trends the way they are, the left knows that all these people will be dems for life. That's why there's tacit approval of illegal immigration. they could not care less about the moral/humanitarian aspect of it all

Question to Republicans: If immigrants started voting Republican, would the GOP take their feet off their necks?

If immigrants were voting Republican, the parties' positions on immigration would flip relatively quickly.

[HillGoose]

Illegal immigration IS wrong but so is sending little kids back to an unknown fate.

I think work visas should just be massively expanded, because there's too many jobs to fill here and without immigrants the USA would experience population decrease, making the economy weaker. I think as long as someone who wants to immigrate and they don't have criminal or terrorist connections and has some kind of skill to find work (even as simple as picking fruit or lifting boxes) they and their family should be let in.

[Rookie Yinzer]

With voting trends the way they are, the left knows that all these people will be dems for life. That's why there's tacit approval of illegal immigration. they could not care less about the moral/humanitarian aspect of it all

This post is BS, because immigrant communities have horrendous turnout rates if they do become citizens. Otherwise, undocumented immigrants do not even vote despite what Trump and FOX News try to propogate.

It’s cute how the GOP has never had such hatred for Cubans.

[SteveRogers]

Look, I’m a prosecutor. My job every day is to make sure that all types of people are punished for their crimes. Sometimes, depending on the facts of the case, that means giving offenders the maximum jail sentence under the law. I believe unauthorized entry into this country should be illegal. And I believe it should be punished like any other crime. Under federal law, first time illegal immigration is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine and up to six months in prison. That means in terms of seriousness of crimes, in most jurisdictions it would rank right up there with shoplifting and simple possession of a marijuana joint.

I believe crimes should be punished. But I cannot condone inhumane treatment of prisoners. For me it’s not about race or politics: it would shock my conscience if our country’s government was treating any class of people this way. I would have the same reaction if our government went into any major city and rounded up every single last shoplifter and pot smoker, threw then all in a makeshift tent city that was nowhere near ready to handle that capacity, and then threw their children in a separate internment camp for “deterrence purposes.”

[gerritcole]

With voting trends the way they are, the left knows that all these people will be dems for life. That's why there's tacit approval of illegal immigration. they could not care less about the moral/humanitarian aspect of it all

Question to Republicans: If immigrants started voting Republican, would the GOP take their feet off their necks?

Are you referring to the base or elected officials? If immigrants were right leaning, i imagine officials would be less opposed but the base would still be vehemently against it. it would be like the gop of the past, where business interests (agriculture, service industry) supported immigration while the base did not.

Why would the base still be against it?

general reasons for opposition to immigration including racism, fear of outsiders, ignorance, economic anxiety, fear about demographics, etc

[gerritcole]

With voting trends the way they are, the left knows that all these people will be dems for life. That's why there's tacit approval of illegal immigration. they could not care less about the moral/humanitarian aspect of it all

This post is BS, because immigrant communities have horrendous turnout rates if they do become citizens. Otherwise, undocumented immigrants do not even vote despite what Trump and FOX News try to propogate.

It’s cute how the GOP has never had such hatred for Cubans.

no that's the point, GOP politicians love Cubans cause they vote GOP. But Cubans for the most part are concentrated in South Fl and large cities, where other parts of the GOP base have less exposure to them. I'm sure if you asked a random GOP voter if he/she saw a difference in a Guatemalan or a Cuban immigrant, he/she would say no

[MarkD]

To me, an illegal immigrant is like a burglar -- someone who has picked the lock on my door and entered my home without my permission. (To be fair, I did not think up this analogy on my own; I got the idea from Prof. David P. Currie of University of Chicago Law School.) I do not agree with anyone who calls illegal immigrants "animals," but it is perfectly acceptable to call them "criminals."

[The Dowager Mod]

It must be serious because he put ILLEGAL in all caps.

[PragmaticPopulist]

I've stated my position, and I'll say it again for anyone who hasn't heard.

I acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem and I'm not okay with it, but it's not the crisis immigration hardliners want you to believe.

Do I think all people who support policies like separation of families to be racists? Absolutely not, although racism is definitely a factor. I believe there's a significant segment of this group who just hasn't thought much about solutions. Maybe I'm being naive, but after nearly 2 years of closely examining election data, that's the best conclusion I can come to.

I am in favor of making it more difficult to come here illegally, but a border wall isn't the most effective way of doing that, especially considering that the problem isn't too big.

Instead, I think it should be easier to come here legally. I know immigration hardliners might not like that, but the country was built on legal immigrants, so what's the problem?

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

With voting trends the way they are, the left knows that all these people will be dems for life. That's why there's tacit approval of illegal immigration. they could not care less about the moral/humanitarian aspect of it all

Question to Republicans: If immigrants started voting Republican, would the GOP take their feet off their necks?

If immigrants were voting Republican, the parties' positions on immigration would flip relatively quickly.

If immigrants were voting Republican, we'd have either a very different type of immigrant, or a very different type of GOP.

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

When do people start posting shirtless pictures of themselves this time? Those kinds of threads are iconic.

[FalloutBoy97]

Is the fact that it’s ILLEGAL the PROBLEM? Or is it that they are brown amd don’t speak english? Something being illegal is not what makes it immoral. I break the law every time I light up a joint but I don’t care because the law is wrong. It should be easier to immigrate here legally, and the republican attack on LEGAL immigration pretty much renders this entire debate moot. Illegal immigration IS a problem, but really only for security reasons (we shoud keep track of the people entering our country). Trump said it himself, right-wingers would be fine with immigration if the immigrants were coming from “places like Norway” and not “sh!thole countries. As much as I disagree with people like Steve Bannon, I have to at least respect that they admit they oppose immigration for cultural reasons. As for the Mortimers of the forum, no we are not “full” (the native-born fertility rate is dropping) and differences in income between immigrants and natives dissipate over the course of 2-3 generations. Most Irish/Italian/German immigrants came here with nothing, but nonetheless those groups have contributed immensely to this country in the decades since.

[TJ in Oregon]

It's again pretty obviously a problem, and given the number of illegal immigrants, a pretty significant one. The fact that we have millions of people who crossed the border without proper documentation, coyotes, smuggling gangs, rampant ignoring of hiring laws, etc. etc.

Now, the thing about it is that most of the common hot takes about immigration aren't mutually exclusive. Yes, it's a problem. Yes, the people coming here are still people with dignity. Yes, they broke the law. Yes, we should try to keep families together. Yes, we need to do something about border security. The list goes on. I think the main reason why people are so fed up about this issue is that it's been sitting there for more than a decade, has pretty obvious solutions, and yet nothing has been done about it, either due to gridlock or corruption. And most of the people really fed up with illegal immigration are quite convinced it's due to corruption.

I think pretty much everything I said above should be accepted by more or less the entire political spectrum. See why this is still an issue?