Putin Vs Erdogan

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Who is your fave?

[smoltchanov]

Putin. An "Empire fanatic", but - not "religious fanatic"...

[dead0man]

Putin. An "Empire fanatic", but - not "religious fanatic"...

indeed.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Erdogan, if only because the violently secular and inherently undemocratic Turkish Deep State is worse.

[Alabama_Indy10]

Putin

[BBD]

Erdogan, if only because the violently secular and inherently undemocratic Turkish Deep State is worse. no longer exists.

[pilskonzept]

Putin if we are talking lifestyle, Erdogan if we are talking politics.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Putin. An "Empire fanatic", but - not "religious fanatic"...

indeed.

Both are more fanatics for themselves more than anything else.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Both are HP but stil Erdogan. His turn into autocratic style of politics is still fresh and at least his genesis as leader is at least based on some record of democratic elections while Putin from the beginning was part of oligarchic pact between business and secret services (and boundaries between those two are fluid). And Erdogan at least dismantled army influence.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Putin. An "Empire fanatic", but - not "religious fanatic"...

indeed.

Both are more fanatics for themselves more than anything else.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

This is basically asking whether you prefer to murder Chechens or Kurds.

[Lechasseur]

Putin

[DavidB.]

Putin already inherited an unfree country (though he made it worse) and at least had one positive achievement, i.e. moving power from oligarchs who essentially controlled the state back to the state. The economic growth in the 00s barely counts as an achievement given the rising oil prices at the time, and the Kremlin's failure to diversify the Russian economy and the country's subsequent falling into the trap of the "resource curse" is absolutely the Kremlin's mistake. So is the country's ultimately failed neighborhood policy, which has caused Kyiv and Tbilisi to permanently ally with the West while Russia has gotten only Crimea and very painful sanctions in return.

Erdogan, meanwhile, actively made his country less free. The economic growth in the 00s is one of his biggest achievements and genuinely very impressive, but Erdogan's assault on press freedom, freedom of speech, and checks and balances has been horrible, and so is the Islamization and the dismantling of the influence of the army, which has mostly been a force for the good in Turkey.

Erdogan is probably the better leader for his country, but ultimately objectivity doesn't exist and I'm going to vote for the one who doesn't call my countrymen Nazis and fascists. The one whose geopolitical antics indirectly caused the downing of a plane with almost 200 Dutch citizens isn't much better, but I dislike him much less than Erdogan.

[Kingpoleon]

Erdogan does not support Assad, the Chechens, or literal concentration camps. He also hasn’t assassinated his presidential opponents or barred them from running, and he hasn’t invaded two sovereign countries.

[smoltchanov]

Erdogan does not support Assad, the Chechens, or literal concentration camps. He also hasn’t assassinated his presidential opponents or barred them from running, and he hasn’t invaded two sovereign countries.

Erdogan killed a lot of Kurds, instead. And, BTW, as a person, wjo observed some of Chechen's deeds in Moscow first hand, i would say, that many of them deserved death 1000 times (Basaev, for example). Not once, but many, many times. They are anything, but "freedom fighters")))))

[😥]

Putin annexed the Crimea and daily kills my compatriots-Ukrainians in the Donbass.

1) In Russia Putin kills his true opponents in elections ----- In Turkey Erdogan no
2) There are no opposition media in Russia ----- There are very few in Turkey, but they are still there
3) (over the past 25 years) Russia illegally invaded the territory of 2 independent countries ----- Turkey has not invaded anywhere

The economic situation in Turkey is better than in Russia. Living and living standards are also higher in Turkey.

That's why Erdogan is definitely
So, only Erdogan

[smoltchanov]

Putin annexed the Crimea and daily kills my compatriots-Ukrainians in the Donbass.

1) In Russia Putin kills his true opponents in elections ----- In Turkey Erdogan no
2) There are no opposition media in Russia ----- There are very few in Turkey, but they are still there
3) (over the past 25 years) Russia illegally invaded the territory of 2 independent countries ----- Turkey has not invaded anywhere

The economic situation in Turkey is much better than in Russia. Living and living standards are also higher in Turkey.

That's why Erdogan is definitely
So, only Erdogan

Lie on most (though - not all) points. Ask Kurds about Erdogan, and you will discover a lot of "interesting facts". And i wouldn't say, that economic situation, living in general and living standards in Turkey are higher, then in Russia: Russians go on vacation and own property in Turkey, while Turks seek jobs in Russia.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Putin annexed the Crimea and daily kills my compatriots-Ukrainians in the Donbass.

1) In Russia Putin kills his true opponents in elections ----- In Turkey Erdogan no
2) There are no opposition media in Russia ----- There are very few in Turkey, but they are still there
3) (over the past 25 years) Russia illegally invaded the territory of 2 independent countries ----- Turkey has not invaded anywhere

The economic situation in Turkey is much better than in Russia. Living and living standards are also higher in Turkey.

That's why Erdogan is definitely
So, only Erdogan

Lie on most (though - not all) points. Ask Kurds about Erdogan, and you will discover a lot of "interesting facts". And i wouldn't say, that economic situation, living in general and living standards in Turkey are higher, then in Russia: Russians go on vacation and own property in Turkey, while Turks seek jobs in Russia.

Which Kurds? Because a certain, substantially large subset of Kurds either always or usually votes AKP.

[smoltchanov]

Putin annexed the Crimea and daily kills my compatriots-Ukrainians in the Donbass.

1) In Russia Putin kills his true opponents in elections ----- In Turkey Erdogan no
2) There are no opposition media in Russia ----- There are very few in Turkey, but they are still there
3) (over the past 25 years) Russia illegally invaded the territory of 2 independent countries ----- Turkey has not invaded anywhere

The economic situation in Turkey is much better than in Russia. Living and living standards are also higher in Turkey.

That's why Erdogan is definitely
So, only Erdogan

Lie on most (though - not all) points. Ask Kurds about Erdogan, and you will discover a lot of "interesting facts". And i wouldn't say, that economic situation, living in general and living standards in Turkey are higher, then in Russia: Russians go on vacation and own property in Turkey, while Turks seek jobs in Russia.

Which Kurds? Because a certain, substantially large subset of Kurds either always or usually votes AKP.

AFAIK - most Kurds are of very low opinion about Erdogan...

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The Kurds - being largely very rural and conservative - used to be big fans of Erdogan (especially relative to the Kemalists), and (contrary to my assumptions) still seem to be sticking to him.