Question for the Forum Gays

[Tender Branson]

As you may know (or not), Austria will legalize gay marriage on Jan. 1, 2019.

But currently, gays/lesbians etc. have actually the superior and more modern partnership law which they can enter. This partnership law is almost identical to the hetero marriage law and even provides better legal standing for patchwork families etc. when compared with the traditional marriage law which is from the 1800s (but amended in the 1970s). The thing is that the partnership law is just not called "marriage".

So, Forum Gays ... would you enter a marriage (using the antiquated law), would you enter the civil union law (with a 21st century legal base), or would you wait for a proper reform later on so that the marriage law is "brought" into the 21st century as well, or would you not even consider marrying your partner because a formal marriage/union is not needed these days ?

For me:

Even though I'm not gay, I would not marry at all.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

The only way I am entering into an Austrian marriage is if Sebastian Kurz makes me his mail order bride, and he can do whatever he wants. Formal marriage!

[Del Tachi]

If I was Austrian, I would opt for the civil partnership if the antiquated marriage laws are not updated.  

Thankfully, as an American, I don't have to worry about this because marriage in our country is a civil institution, not a religious one

[Tender Branson]

If I was Austrian, I would opt for the civil partnership if the antiquated marriage laws are not updated.  

Thankfully, as an American, I don't have to worry about this because marriage in our country is a civil institution, not a religious one

What do you mean by that ? Here it is both a civil and religious institution, just like in the US.

[Del Tachi]

If I was Austrian, I would opt for the civil partnership if the antiquated marriage laws are not updated. 

Thankfully, as an American, I don't have to worry about this because marriage in our country is a civil institution, not a religious one

What do you mean by that ? Here it is both a civil and religious institution, just like in the US.

Marriage in the United States is not popularly understood as a religious ceremony/institution.  The vast majority of even conservative religious people in the United States are married in civil ceremonies (with the most notable exception being Roman Catholic marriage rites, which are commonly performed).  This is why marriage still remains vastly more popular than cohabitation in the United States even among young, secular couples.

This generally contrasts with much of Europe, where even though most marriages performed there are civil in nature, the historic influence of national churches and state religions on marriage law has resulted in popular perceptions of marriage that are more religious than in the United States.

Granted, my perceptions on this issue are very American-centric and probably gloss over a lot of the nuance contained in modern European concepts of marriage, but I do think the lack of a state religion/national church in the U.S. has done a lot in secularizing marriage here. 

 

[DC Al Fine]

As you may know (or not), Austria will legalize gay marriage on Jan. 1, 2019.

But currently, gays/lesbians etc. have actually the superior and more modern partnership law which they can enter. This partnership law is almost identical to the hetero marriage law and even provides better legal standing for patchwork families etc. when compared with the traditional marriage law which is from the 1800s (but amended in the 1970s). The thing is that the partnership law is just not called "marriage".

So, Forum Gays ... would you enter a marriage (using the antiquated law), would you enter the civil union law (with a 21st century legal base), or would you wait for a proper reform later on so that the marriage law is "brought" into the 21st century as well, or would you not even consider marrying your partner because a formal marriage/union is not needed these days ?

For me:

Even though I'm not gay, I would not marry at all.

Could you elaborate on how the new civil union law is different from the old marriage law?

[DavidB.]

Nobody grows up thinking they want to get civil unioned. Needless to say I'd prefer marriage.

[Tender Branson]

As you may know (or not), Austria will legalize gay marriage on Jan. 1, 2019.

But currently, gays/lesbians etc. have actually the superior and more modern partnership law which they can enter. This partnership law is almost identical to the hetero marriage law and even provides better legal standing for patchwork families etc. when compared with the traditional marriage law which is from the 1800s (but amended in the 1970s). The thing is that the partnership law is just not called "marriage".

So, Forum Gays ... would you enter a marriage (using the antiquated law), would you enter the civil union law (with a 21st century legal base), or would you wait for a proper reform later on so that the marriage law is "brought" into the 21st century as well, or would you not even consider marrying your partner because a formal marriage/union is not needed these days ?

For me:

Even though I'm not gay, I would not marry at all.

Could you elaborate on how the new civil union law is different from the old marriage law?

From the article "Why the civil partnership law must remain, despite legalisation of gay marriage":

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.vice.com/de_at/article/7xemzx/warum-die-eingetragene-partnerschaft-bleiben-muss

More detailed (use Google Translate):

https://mediationwanderer.wordpress.com/2017/12/12/der-kleine-unterschied-zwischen-ehe-und-eingetragener-partnerschaft

[America Needs R'hllor]

Nobody grows up thinking they want to get civil unioned. Needless to say I'd prefer marriage.

This exactly.
Symbolism matters and I want to claim my equal rights.

[IceSpear]

The only way I am entering into an Austrian marriage is if Sebastian Kurz makes me his mail order bride, and he can do whatever he wants. Formal marriage!

Are you still saving yourself for marriage?

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

The only way I am entering into an Austrian marriage is if Sebastian Kurz makes me his mail order bride, and he can do whatever he wants. Formal marriage!

Are you still saving yourself for marriage?

"Sort of" is the only answer I can offer.

[DavidB.]

Nobody grows up thinking they want to get civil unioned. Needless to say I'd prefer marriage.

This exactly.
Symbolism matters and I want to claim my equal rights.

Blessed to live in the first country to allow it, to have known as a child that this was not only legal but also okay. Hope you will soon live in a country where this is the case too.

[bagelman]

Marriage or nothing

[SATW]

I'm bisexual, but i don't care. not something I foresee having to deal with anytime soon.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If I was Austrian, I would opt for the civil partnership if the antiquated marriage laws are not updated. 

Thankfully, as an American, I don't have to worry about this because marriage in our country is a civil institution, not a religious one

What do you mean by that ? Here it is both a civil and religious institution, just like in the US.

Marriage in the United States is not popularly understood as a religious ceremony/institution.  The vast majority of even conservative religious people in the United States are married in civil ceremonies (with the most notable exception being Roman Catholic marriage rites, which are commonly performed).  This is why marriage still remains vastly more popular than cohabitation in the United States even among young, secular couples.

This generally contrasts with much of Europe, where even though most marriages performed there are civil in nature, the historic influence of national churches and state religions on marriage law has resulted in popular perceptions of marriage that are more religious than in the United States.

Granted, my perceptions on this issue are very American-centric and probably gloss over a lot of the nuance contained in modern European concepts of marriage, but I do think the lack of a state religion/national church in the U.S. has done a lot in secularizing marriage here. 

 

What are you counting as a "civil" ceremony here vs a religious one?  I think the vast majority of American weddings are performed by clergy.

[Tender Branson]

If I was Austrian, I would opt for the civil partnership if the antiquated marriage laws are not updated.  

Thankfully, as an American, I don't have to worry about this because marriage in our country is a civil institution, not a religious one

What do you mean by that ? Here it is both a civil and religious institution, just like in the US.

Marriage in the United States is not popularly understood as a religious ceremony/institution.  The vast majority of even conservative religious people in the United States are married in civil ceremonies (with the most notable exception being Roman Catholic marriage rites, which are commonly performed).  This is why marriage still remains vastly more popular than cohabitation in the United States even among young, secular couples.

This generally contrasts with much of Europe, where even though most marriages performed there are civil in nature, the historic influence of national churches and state religions on marriage law has resulted in popular perceptions of marriage that are more religious than in the United States.

Granted, my perceptions on this issue are very American-centric and probably gloss over a lot of the nuance contained in modern European concepts of marriage, but I do think the lack of a state religion/national church in the U.S. has done a lot in secularizing marriage here.    

I don't think this is true:

While 100% of marriages are registered in civil form at each town's municipal clerk, only about 25-30% of these marriages are also performed in church.

Last year, there were about 50.000 marriages registered here - but the Catholic Church only had 12.000 weddings. There are also some Protestant and Muslim weddings, but people here are less willing than ever to go for a church wedding. Simply registering it at the town clerk is enough for them.

When it comes to this issue, Austria is going a similar way as Ireland: because of all the child abuse scandals in the Catholic Church, people are losing trust in this institution, quit church (like myself) and church service and also don't marry in church any longer. Still, one thing is interesting despite all of this: About 10 years ago, more than every second marriage each year was divorced, according to statistics. Last year, the divorce rate as a percentage of all marriages during the year has declined to 40% though. So, while people lose significant trust in the Church, they still uphold conservative values such as loyalty to their partners.