Diplomacraft: The North Sign-Ups

[Bacon King]

I'm definitely in! Tentatively calling the Starks but there are several questions I have before I can fully decide on which House I want to play (I'm considering all of Manderly, Mormont, Reed, or Umber)

What time period is this set in? You say it's when "the freehold was still young" but does that just mean that it was before the Doom? Because the Freehold lasted thousands of years, but the geopolitical situation you're describing sounds like it's set only a few centuries before the Doom (especially with the established Manderly presence in the North and Braavos openly participating in international trade)

I guess the precise date doesn't matter so much but could you answer the following questions so I fully understand the setting for the scenario

- is the north fully unified under Stark rule? (whether nominally or genuinely)
- what's the general situation south of the Neck?
- Have the Ironborn taken the Riverlands yet?
- how prominent is the faith of the seven throughout Westeros?
- how much influence does Valyria have in Westeros (are the Celtigars and/or Velaryons already present?)
- does House Stark have the (Valyrian steel) Ice?
- does House Mormont have Longclaw?
- is the thousand year war between the North and the Vale already over?
- does every playable House have a Maester? If not, who doesn't? How do they communicate and stuff?

sorry for the annoying questions

[Bacon King]

If this is set a thousand years before AGoT then the Starks would actually be more powerful than they'd ever been -- that's when they finally subdued the Boltons for good, finally achieving full dominion over the north. This would be set after the Greystark cadet branch's rebellion against Winterfell and alliance with the Boltons; when the Starks prevailed after that fight they allowed the Manderlys to settle in the newly vacated wolf's den on the white knife

I don't mean to be a buzzkill or come across like i am demanding absolute accuracy to established canon I just want to know what I'm getting into before I pick my house. I would love to play the Starks in a weaker role, where they have the impossible task of keeping their vassals placated with the few resources they have, but if the Starks are to have a very dominent leadership role in the north perhaps it should be controlled by the GM

[Bacon King]

Nice! One last thing, you mention the first night as one of the things only practiced by the houses that keep to the "old ways" but shouldn't the first night still be a normal and allowed tradition at this point in time? It was only banned under Targaryen rule, at the same time Queen Alysanne gave the New Gift to the Nights Watch

Just checking whether it is an intentional change or not

[Bacon King]

I don't think it would have been normal; I imagine most Starks would consider themselves above the practice along with other more "forward thinking" houses like the Manderlys, Dustins, Ryswells and Karstarks. The more rural houses and those clinging to old ways may still practice it openly. Never outlawed, but also not something shouted about and paraded around. This applies only to the peasants, but I imagine the Umbers and Boltons as well as Skaagosi took it even farther to include the lower nobility or a weak vassal.

I'll look over my materials again tonight and start getting some more things concrete, but this should mostly be about the North as an isolated and independent kingdom, with occasional interludes. The timeline seems to be around 300-500 years before conquest based on what we've been working with, with Valyria being a good bit older than I originally envisioned hehe

That makes sense, thank you for being so quick and thorough with your responses! I have an unhealthy obsession a love for all things ASOIAF (I know so much trivia and minutiae about the series and its setting, I have very strong opinions about many fan theories and I've even developed some ideas of my own. If we had a general discussion ASOIAF thread in Off Topic I'd probably be its most prolific poster [actually would there be any interest in that lol)

Definitely looking forward to the game start! Tentatively I'm thinking about playing as the Starks but I haven't 100% decided yet. If someone else joins and wants to play House Stark they can have it and I'll pick something else

[Bacon King]

here's a ASOIAF general discussion thread I posted in off topic. The OP is perhaps a bit rambling

I agree with what you're saying with Boltons and Starks - I'd like to take Manderly please! household details i'll probably take care of tomorrow

[Bacon King]

I would like first dibs on House Stark if we get enough players, but for now I think I’d like House Ryswell. I don’t see how not having Stark be a PC will avoid much conflict, to be honest.


(If Bacon wants Stark, once we have enough players, my real first choice is by far Manderly.)

Dereich already picked House Ryswell fwiw

I'll play Stark if the role is open but only if people are cool with it

[Bacon King]

hey are y'all cool if I play Stark I think it'd be fun

[Bacon King]

House Stark

(this is only about like half of the notes I prepared for this but I had to physically force myself to stop writing soooooooooooo muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch mooooooooooooore than required)

Cregan "The Cold" Stark [3/5/0]: Age 35. Lord of Winterfell and King of Winter.

A year into his second winter as a boy, young Cregan grew bored with confines of Winterfell and decided to have an adventure. It was deep into Winter and he had formed close friendships with several boys from the Hill Clans who were residing in Winter Town for the season. He gathered these friends - a dozen in all - and persuaded each of them to come along with him. During a bout of unseasonably warm weather, he successfully led his twelve companions into the wilderness without being spotted. The group set out for Castle Cerwyn, as Cregan wanted to introduce his new friends its young lord, with whom he was well acquainted. Unfortunately, however, disaster struck. A fierce blizzard struck without warning. They were utterly exposed to the elements, miles from any possible shelter.

Just as the blizzard hit Winterfell, Lord Theon Stark was informed that his son and the others could not be found. He urgently sounded the alarm, sending out riders in every direction. Lord Theon himself led a search party into the snowstorm, searching well into the night and refusing to give up hope. The boys were found huddled closely together for warmth, nearly consumed by the snow that was still building up all around them. Twelve of the boys were dead. In the center, Cregan was still breathing, if only barely, cocooned by the stiff bodies of his former companions.

The boy had severe frostbite, unconscious for days. The maester did not expect him to survive. And yet -- he did. Cregan was covered in scars, both mental and physical. He would be crippled and weak for the rest of his life. He was the heir to a great house, yet would never be able to even lift a sword.

In a rugged martial society like the North, one would assume such a man would make a terrible ruler. However, Cregan learned to adapt. He was traumatized and blamed himself harshly. He led his twelve companions to their deaths yet he survived. He earned his epithet as much for his cold and distant demeanor in his teenage years, as for his near-death experience.

As he matured he gained much wisdom from his tragedy. Never again would he allow himself to be negligent towards the needs of those in his care. He would always do his best, for vassal lords and smallfolk alike. Cregan is diligent, just, humble, and wise -- with his capable administration and personal kindness, he is beloved as Lord of Winterfell and King of Winter even in spite of his weak and broken body.

Arsa Stark[0/1/0]: Age 24. Younger sister of Lord Cregan. Maiden. Self-taught in basic stewardship skills -- between the death of Lord Cregan's second wife and the marriage between Rodwell and Mariah she was required to perform the roles traditionally required of the Lady of Winterfell (maintaining household budget, managing servant staff)

Rodwell "Hardbone" Stark [5/4/2]: age 18. Oldest son and heir of Lord Cregan. Earned his nickname as a child when he fell from a great height while climbing the walls of Winterfell -- even though he landed on the hard and rocky ground, not a single bone in his body was broken. Married to Mariah Cassel, with a two year old son named Rodwell. Unusually, they married for love -- Lord Cregan permitted the marriage during the fifth year of winter to provide hope and entertainment to his people during the long winter( Winterfell and the adjacent Winter Town are a very close-knit group during long winters, with so many people in such limited confines. Rodwell and Mariah were both well-known and well-liked throughout the community)

Harlon Stark [2/3/4]: Age 16. Second son of Lord Cregan.

Osrick Stark [0/0/2]: Age 13. Third son of Lord Cregan. Young, but with a natural talent for swordplay and military tactics. Mother died during childbirth.

Lyarra Stark[0/0/0]: Age 10. Oldest daughter of Lord Cregan and first child with his second wife

Branda Stark [0/0/0]: Age 7. Second daughter of Lord Cregan, twins with Brandon. Mother died during childbirth.

Brandon Stark [0/0/0]: Age 7. Fourth and youngest son of Lord Cregan, twins with Branda. Mother died during childbirth.

Rodrick Stark [0/0/0]: Age 2. Son of Rockwell Stark and Mariah Cassel


Benjen Snow [0/2/2]: Age 16. bastard son of Cregan's deceased younger brother Brennard.

Mariah Cassel [0/2/0]: Age 18. Wife of Rodwell Stark. Currently performs the duties traditionally required of the Lady of Winterfell. Member of House Cassel, a local noble family sworn to serve House Stark who live within Winterfell itself.

Eddard Mollen [2/3/1] Age 44: Castellan and Steward of Winterfell. Member of House Mollen, a local noble family sworn to serve House Stark who live within Winterfell itself.

Jon Poole [0/0/4] Age 38: Master-at-Arms of Winterfell. Member of House Poole, a local noble family sworn to serve House Stark who live within Winterfell itself.

[Bacon King]

here's a family tree in case the descriptions alone are too confusing

black name = alive
grey name = dead

right click ---> open in new tab to see a bigger version

edit: I mislabled Osrick as Ulric

[Bacon King]

The topic is up, I figure we can keep this one around for discussion, and the game has officially begun! I'll be posting a better explanation about the previous war to help people who want to flash out back stories as people are having fun with that. We are still accepting players as well, especially if someone wants to play beyond the wall

When is this turn due (and how long will turns be generally)?

do we need to BCC you in PM's like we had to do in Lumine's game or is that not the case here (that was the only other one of these I've played lol)

[Bacon King]

also random question - when you list House Flint as a vassal of White Harbor is that just Widow's Watch or does that include Flint's Finger as well (I'm sure the Flints of the Mountain are part of the Mountain Clans lol)

[Bacon King]

fun fact, the size of my orders:

2295 words

13,186 characters

7 full pages in standard academic style (12pt Times New Roman double space etc)

readability level according to some online calculator: post-graduate college level

lol

[Bacon King]

Hey leonardo, given current events and my in-character admonishment of Lord Manderly, I decided to pull the trigger now on the arrest warrant I included in my orders since I know it was coming anyway and if I do it now it minimizes additional things I'd need to add to the warrant lol

this will be fun I'm sure

[Bacon King]

question about this map: what's up with the yellow territory on the east coast? Shouldn't that (at least partially) be Manderly territory, since Widow's Watch is a Manderly vassal?

[Bacon King]

You can call whatever witnesses you need

Can he? I was under the assumption this would be run like tyrion's trial since that's the only example we have of the westerosi justice system, though I don't mind him having witnesses. when you post the thread for the trial it'd be great if you could explain the general procedure you want us to follow in the OP

[Bacon King]

Yes I intended to be the marriage to occur during the second turn, in what I figure would be the fourth month after starting the game, and for turn two I'd personally invite each high lord individually as befits their status. I had assumed the trial would chronologically occur "during" the first turn and occur immediately following his arrest, as soon as the judges have gathered. I assumed the trial itself wouldn't take more than a couple of days? I'm ready to start the trial as soon as reasonable fwiw

[Bacon King]

Yes I intended to be the marriage to occur during the second turn, in what I figure would be the fourth month after starting the game, and for turn two I'd personally invite each high lord individually as befits their status. I had assumed the trial would chronologically occur "during" the first turn and occur immediately following his arrest, as soon as the judges have gathered. I assumed the trial itself wouldn't take more than a couple of days? I'm ready to start the trial as soon as reasonable fwiw

Trial has started, ball is in the accusers court

Until you said this had no idea the trial thread had been started, I wish you would have PM'd me or posted something here -- I'm so sorry for being so late

[Bacon King]

Good details, though that seems a bit large and in your face for an honor guard.

Time is ticking for the accusers; hate to push justice but the next turn is resting on the trial

sorry it's entirely my fault, a lot of stuff going on but i'll take care of it today

[Bacon King]

sorry if tmi but to offer a thorough explanation--

my dog isvery sick, probably close to dying, and I'm taking it a lot harder than I thought I would. the resulting anxiety has triggered my narcolepsy twice now, where I've collapsed asleep in the middle of the day (in spite of the powerful prescription stimulant I take!), slept twelve hours, and woke up in the middle of the night on my boss's couch (not as weird as it sounds, I work out of her living room). So I've been catching up on things I missed while asleep, constantly in fear I'll pass out again, while also really distracted by my dog's health, when he's whining in pain I can't not go sit down with him. Those of you who know me also know I'm bipolar, and all this chaos has triggered a bit of an episode so emotionally I've been a bit unhinged. Thankfully my boss/candidate is incredibly understanding and we still have 3.5 months until the election. On top of everything else, my close friend that I usually confide has been away and so I'm without that valve to vent steam.

Again sorry if I'm going too much into detail or anything lol but I want to be open and honest about what's going on so you know I'm not just being lazy or whatever. Just doing my best so everyone knows what's happening with me, what I'm doing, and what to expect from me right now and in the near future.

If my inactivity persists I totally understand if you need to remove me from the game, or "NPC" me for a while maybe or whatever, so everyone else can keep having fun. I don't anticipate this situation to last much longer but honestly I'm kind of a huge mess lol

[Bacon King]

alright everyone! thank you for accommodating me with the delay court thread update incoming

[Bacon King]

I asked permission for if my thing was okay. By the way, an honor guard by definition are sworn to turn on their liege in the case of him breaking his honor. That was kind out of turn by Baconomics - I suspect he missed my post about it here for obvious and understandable reasons. That being said, I think it would be fun for a defendant to be in charge of his guards unless he tries to escape or betray his oath. It’s basically a “you’re in charge but you can’t do anything” respect for a fellow lord. If you guys don’t like it, I’ll narrow it down to like six guards.

Could you reduce it to six as a compromise with the condition they won't actually be used?  I'm trying really hard to make sure this is a fair trial, so it's only reasonable that I try to compromise on stuff like this too in the interest of being accommodating to the accused

Thank you, I will. I will retcon it - assuming no one objects - and Baconomics can retcon his opening statement as well. I don’t intend to use them, but I figured that at least some of those that accompanied the Lord Manderly to the trial should enter. We’ll assume the rest are working with the city guards to keep anyone from inciting the crowds or ruling them up.

Actually if it's okay I'd like to insist on keeping the exchange and requiring your men to leave the room (or at least require the allowed six to be a significant distance behind you, like up against the wall or something).

In character, the harsh reaction is entirely intentional on my part. Cregan is frustrated by and more than a little bit suspicious about the size of your personal guard. He can't do anything about it because of his unyielding adherence to Northern traditions such as hospitality and guest right, but privately he's outraged. Cregan just wanted a quick and simple trial, but you show up with 36 landed knights -- and Cregan considers himself obligated to individually treat with each of them, attentively offering individually-tailored hospitality and accommodations befitting their status as members of the landed nobility. (Note that knightly houses are a foreign concept to the North outside of Manderly lands, so while the rest of Westeros treats knightly houses as "lesser nobility" with fewer privileges, that distinction does not exist in the North). In general Cregan also has a low opinion of knights in general due to some personal incidents that occurred when he was a kid, being fostered in the Riverlands at House Blackwood -- as a result he is very much NOT fond of having three dozen knights gallivanting throughout his castle.

Cregan's attitude towards your honor guard is very much motivated entirely out of spite lol. I think it's reasonable to assume it's technically prohibited to have personal guards at one's side during a trial, even if the norm is to waive/ignore the rule so that honor guards can accompany accused lords during their trials. In this case though Cregan is being a dick, forcing you to tell your men to stand down, because it's his one way to say a "f-ck you" to the knights currently all over the place in Winterfell.

I hope this is cool?

[Bacon King]

Hey sorry I'm back from my crisis and have majorly reduced my irlwork load. My participation may be spotty for the next couple of days but I just wanted to post and let everyone know that I'm back in the game and I'll take care of the thread trial today (I think I can just waive Dereich's requirement to testimony if that's ok with everyone)