Should Puerto Rico be a state?

[Fritz]

As long as this subject was briefly touched upon in the Cuba thread.....

I think Puerto Rico should become a state.  Of course, it is up to the Puerto Ricans to decide this, but in the long run I see benefits both to the US and to Puerto Rico.

[Dave from Michigan]

No

How would this benefit the U.S.

[PBrunsel]

No.

[7,052,770]

Absolutely.  They've been mooching off the US for too long.  They can take their place equal to other US citizens.
And to help a little, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands will become the state of Puerto Rico.

[Fritz]

Well, I don't have all my facts in front of me right at the moment, but under the current arrangement the US is subsidizing Puerto Rico in major ways (i.e. costing us money) but we are receiving little to nothing in return- Puerto Ricans don't pay federal income taxes.  In a nutshell, that is how this would benefit the US.  For Puerto Rico, they would have to start paying income tax to the Feds, but would be eligible for a lot of federal programs they are currently not eligible for, thus their state taxes would reduce.  Also the Puerto Rican economy, compares well with other independent nations in the region, but compares unfavorably with states in the USA.  Becoming a state will have real economic benefits to Puerto Rico.

I'll get more specific with my argument later.

[Lunar]

Yes, as well as the collection of Pacific Islands.   Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands can be one state.

[7,052,770]

Yes, as well as the collection of Pacific Islands.   Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands can be one state.

The Pacific Islands only have about 200,000 and are split across the IDL.  That wouldn't be much of a state.  Instead, the US should reannex the Trust Territory, and all other Pacific nations {they'd definitely be better off}.  Then the US could move the IDL over to like 176 E, and everything on the west side become West Pacifica, and the east side become East Pacifica.  Each new state would have approximately 1mil people.

[??????????]

They have cheap gas, I know that! Let them join if they wish to, I have absolutely no problem with it.

[angus]

I voted yes.  A couple of points:  I had the pleasure of visiting PR for about ten days last year and found that they are very passionate about their politics.  There are two main, and one minor, factions.  And there's only one issue:  The status of the Commonwealth.  In brief, a slim majority (about 52%) favor the status quo (commonwealth of the united states).  The big minority (about 45%) prefer statehood.  And a very tiny fraction on the extreeeeeeeem right (or left, depending on your preference, as they are composed of both very rich and very poor) favor complete independence.  In short, most of the know they have it made!  All the protection of being a US territory (SS benefits, Army/Navy protections, benefits, etc.) with none of the commitments.  By the way, if you do the research you'll find that slim majority has been fairly constant in 7 or 8 referenda over the past 40 years!  They know a good deal when they see it.  If I had the option of getting social security and the blanket of protection afforded by the USA, but didn't have to pay taxes, you can bet your skinny white ass I'd take it too!

[opebo]

NO way.  Too Democratic.  I'd rather make them 'independent'.

[Lunar]

NO way.  Too Democratic.  I'd rather make them 'independent'.

You would refuse to give them statehood because they would give the Democrats 3 ECs?

[MAS117]

Not right now, In the long run they should become one.

[Brambila]

If Puerto Rico continues to vote and keep as a territory, we'll have to let them go.

[angus]

what the hell?!  when did you become a Democrat??

[Lunar]

what the hell?!  when did you become a Democrat??

Since he liked the color red.  You'd think the big D would turn him off though.

[MasterJedi]

I voted yes they should become a state. The small majority would vote to stay a territory but if we said that if they voted not to become a state that they'd become their own country. That would give a HUGE majority for statehood then!

[Gustaf]

NO way.  Too Democratic.  I'd rather make them 'independent'.

You would refuse to give them statehood because they would give the Democrats 3 ECs?

That's our Opebo. He is consistently immoral.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Opebo is right! I agree with him on the principle he is espousing, but not its effect on Puerto Rico.

I agree that we should not bring any state into the Union that appears to be incapable of competition between the two parties.  We have enough of those already.  We would need to pull in Guam or something to balance a heavily Dem state out.

That having been said, I don't think PR would be an automatic Dem pickup.  There is a strong and even competition between a mainstream conservative and mainstream liberal party there and all it would probably take is for Bush to go down there and remind them that Republicans stopped the bombs from dropping on Vieques and voila! - new EV's for Bush.

I stand in solidarity with conservatives on the island who support statehood.  Opebo stands with socialists who support independence

NO way.  Too Democratic.  I'd rather make them 'independent'.

You would refuse to give them statehood because they would give the Democrats 3 ECs?

That's our Opebo. He is consistently immoral.

[angus]

NO way.  Too Democratic.  I'd rather make them 'independent'.

You would refuse to give them statehood because they would give the Democrats 3 ECs?

That's our Opebo. He is consistently immoral.

I would suggest that he is consistently amoral.  

But it is true that Democrats outnumber Republicans 8 to 1, or thereabouts.  I think both those groups are smaller than Governor Calderon's Commonwealth Party.  But htmldon makes a good point, states were admitted in pairs in the 1820s, why not now?  In order to get the PR statehood through, we could admit both PR and Cuba with 3 votes each to balance each other out.  That assumes either would want statehood, of course.  And I think PR definitely has a better deal already.  Cuba obviously does not.

[Gustaf]

NO way.  Too Democratic.  I'd rather make them 'independent'.

You would refuse to give them statehood because they would give the Democrats 3 ECs?

That's our Opebo. He is consistently immoral.

I would suggest that he is consistently amoral.  

But it is true that Democrats outnumber Republicans 8 to 1, or thereabouts.  I think both those groups are smaller than Governor Calderon's Commonwealth Party.  But htmldon makes a good point, states were admitted in pairs in the 1820s, why not now?  In order to get the PR statehood through, we could admit both PR and Cuba with 3 votes each to balance each other out.  That assumes either would want statehood, of course.  And I think PR definitely has a better deal already.  Cuba obviously does not.

Lol, sorry, I should have said amoral...though it's a matter of perception really isn't it?

[angus]

   yeah, I wondered whether that was intentional.

What's the rule on admission?  You give new states a number of votes equal to the number of votes of the least populous one until a census can be made.  So any newly admitted state would get 3 votes right off the bat.  That would be adjusted in the first decennial census after admission.  Is that correct?

[Gustaf]

The Puerto Ricans have no political influence, right?

How does that work exactly? Since I'm a foreigner, I'm not really aware of those things...are they counted as citizens?

[angus]

Yes, persons born in the US Commonwealth of Puerto Rico are United States citizens.  They carry US passports and are subject to the rights and priveleges and duties of all US citizens, with the exception that they do not have voting representation in congress and no votes for President.  (They send a non-voting delegate to Washington, like DC, VI, and Guam).

[Gustaf]

Yes, persons born in the US Commonwealth of Puerto Rico are United States citizens.  They carry US passports and are subject to the rights and priveleges and duties of all US citizens, with the exception that they do not have voting representation in congress and no votes for President.  (They send a non-voting delegate to Washington, like DC, VI, and Guam).

OK...what about no taxation without representation?

[angus]

That's what the opposition to the Commonwealth Party always reminds them of when trying to convince them to vote for statehood.  Obviously those words carry more meaning in Virginia and Massachusetts than in San Juan.  And well they should, since they don't have to pay certain taxes, including social security, but are allowed to receive all benefits.  As you can see, statehood is a tough sell.