NFL bans kneeling during the national anthem

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

How many companies will not punish you if you protest on work time and in doing so create a divisive issue for the company.

It's only divisive to the triggered snowflakes like Donald Trump and players shouldn't be punished for the opinions of triggered snowflakes.

Much of NFL fanbase comes from Trump supporters. I believe NFL has the most conservative fanbase so yes they should punish players for alienating parts of their audience

Sadly, while I dislike the NFL's decision to respond to triggering, the above analysis is probably correct.

Actually, IIRC NFL's viewerbase skews liberal. It's college football that is overwhelmingly conservative.

Cite please. Not being snarky, quite serious. Both points surprise me somewhat.

[136or142]

If everyone has an 'equal say' it shouldn't be up to the owners to unilateraly impose this on the players.  You are really in favor of a system that gives a few people (owners) more rights than other people (workers.)

"A democracy in which everyone has an equal say", I said. Is the workplace a democracy? I think no.

The NFL players have a union which gives them some say in the matter. I know unpatriotic conservatives like you have been trying to destroy unions for some time now as part of the effort to make the United States a de jure democracy where only the wealthiest and otherwise most powerful have any real say.

Unions are cool, but the workplace is still not a democracy, and employees can't always get what they want. Such is life.

Hrm, the workplace isn't a democracy?  That sounds pretty divisive to me and that might lead to conflict within the U.S, you might want to rethink that.

[DavidB.]

Hrm, the workplace isn't a democracy?  That sounds pretty divisive to me and that might lead to conflict within the U.S, you might want to rethink that.

Not being a communist is fortunately not "divisive" in the U.S.

[136or142]

Hrm, the workplace isn't a democracy?  That sounds pretty divisive to me and that might lead to conflict within the U.S, you might want to rethink that.

Not being a communist is fortunately not "divisive" in the U.S.

Workplace democracy has got nothing to do with communism.  Is being ignorant and factually incorrect divisive or not?

[Strudelcutie4427]

Hrm, the workplace isn't a democracy?  That sounds pretty divisive to me and that might lead to conflict within the U.S, you might want to rethink that.

Not being a communist is fortunately not "divisive" in the U.S.

Workplace democracy has got nothing to do with communism.  Is being ignorant and factually incorrect divisive or not?

Would you really want a cashier to have equal standing with the manager? That’s a recipe for disaster

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

they need to stand.

No they don't. This is not the DPRK.

You would not take seriously the opinions of someone who had no regard for the Civil Rights Movement.  Who had no regard for Martin Luther King or John Lewis, or Malcolm X or Stokely Carmichael.  Who would not, say, observe a moment of silence for MLK on his birthday if a sporting event were being held because they didn't think him worthy of that.  

Let's say the NFL had some players who, during a playoff game, wouldn't stand for that particular moment of silence.  Would that be THEIR free speech rights?  Or would you be pleased when the NFL disciplined such players for their divisive gesture?

For the record, I think that the NFL would be well within their rights to discipline such players, who were not only offensive to fans, but were the source of locker room tension with their "MLK Sucks!" gesture.

So perhaps you could consider how offensive it is for millions of Americans to see NFL players saying, in effect, "America Sucks!" by their gesture.  Especially when some of those players are little more than apologists for folks committing crimes.  And before you criticize that statement, consider if whether or not you would consider the other (admittedly hypothetical) example to be a case of folks who were little more than apologists for Bull Connor, Robert Shelton and Sheriff Jim Clark et al.

As for "free speech", this is a nation where Lebron James, a mere high school graduate, with no particular credentials for his opinions to be taken any more seriously than, say, yours or mine, is constantly asked where he weighs in on criminal justice issues.  Why?  Because he's a CELEBRITY.  Celebrities not only enjoy the free speech we do, they enjoy access to widespread distribution of their opinions through the mass media.  The next reporter that sticks a mic in my face and asks if I prefer toilet paper over or under will be the first.  These guys have all the access to media a person could want; how are their "free speech" rights being denied?

You would conclude that an NFL player who refused to observe a moment of silence for MLK on his birthday would be a racist.  That's you're right, and it would be a good guess.  So why would I be wrong in concluding that the "kneelers" in the NFL simply hate America?  There is a difference in believing your country to be wrong on an important matter and wishing to set it right and thinking your country just plain sucks.  Someone in the former category would probably NOT kneel, but would speak out in proper venues.  I don't think I'm wrong, however, in stating that a decent percentage of the Kneelers simply hate America and their gesture is just showing their posterior for America to see.

I would point out that in the mid-1960s, when you weren't even an idea and when the real RFK walked the Earth, the American Flag was a symbol of the Civil Rights movement.  



While I don't think much of BLM overall, they do raise some legitimate issues of racism in criminal justice that deserve discussion and remedy.  Their issues, however, are with police, that are primarily local agencies.  The American flag represents the whole of America, and the anthem is, in the context of the NFL, a tribute to our military.  In that respect, I think that the SINCERE kneelers (as opposed to the Kneelers that truly loathe America) are taking out their frustrations against the wrong folks.  There are millions of NFL fans of all races who have family as active military, and millions more who are veterans; should their sentiments be blown off?  I'm not one who normally chooses to patronize or not patronize an enterprise based on their political beliefs, but I would find it hard to reward an enterprise that actively provides a forum for folks to display their loathing of America.

[136or142]

Hrm, the workplace isn't a democracy?  That sounds pretty divisive to me and that might lead to conflict within the U.S, you might want to rethink that.

Not being a communist is fortunately not "divisive" in the U.S.

Workplace democracy has got nothing to do with communism.  Is being ignorant and factually incorrect divisive or not?

Would you really want a cashier to have equal standing with the manager? That’s a recipe for disaster

Actually a lot of the bigger grocery stores in British Columbia (if not all of Canada) are unionized.  The most successful businessperson in British Columbia, Jimmy Pattison, owns unionized grocery stores and seems to have gotten along with them quite well.

[here2view]

When the sporting field is turned into a political football, everyone loses.

The owners of the NFL teams want the kneeling to stop because they will suffer financially.

Apparently the first player to kneel cannot get back into a contract, so the punishment for kneeling is already in full effect.

I see it as a workplace arrangement.

They are, after all, professional sports people.

He can’t get a contract because he went 1-13 in his last year. It’s not all cuz of the protests, it’s cuz he just flat out sцcks

He's not good but he's definitely better than some of the other backup QB's in the league. He'd be in the league now if he never kneeled. RGIII got signed by the Ravens and he was out of the league in 2017 and is worse than Kaep IMO.

[Strudelcutie4427]

When the sporting field is turned into a political football, everyone loses.

The owners of the NFL teams want the kneeling to stop because they will suffer financially.

Apparently the first player to kneel cannot get back into a contract, so the punishment for kneeling is already in full effect.

I see it as a workplace arrangement.

They are, after all, professional sports people.

He can’t get a contract because he went 1-13 in his last year. It’s not all cuz of the protests, it’s cuz he just flat out sцcks

He's not good but he's definitely better than some of the other backup QB's in the league. He'd be in the league now if he never kneeled. RGIII got signed by the Ravens and he was out of the league in 2017 and is worse than Kaep IMO.

RG3 can atleast win you a few games. Plus he’s just Flacco’s back up. Also yeah if he wasn’t so polarizing maybe he’d still be in the league, no team wants a player taking up valuable space that your own fans would despise. but the stats speak for them self. Any college QB is better than Kraperdick.

[Kodak]

Hrm, the workplace isn't a democracy?  That sounds pretty divisive to me and that might lead to conflict within the U.S, you might want to rethink that.

Not being a communist is fortunately not "divisive" in the U.S.

Workplace democracy has got nothing to do with communism.  Is being ignorant and factually incorrect divisive or not?

Would you really want a cashier to have equal standing with the manager? That’s a recipe for disaster

Publix would like a word.

[courts]

Yeah, the NFLPA is going to sue:

Took me a second to connect the dots; but the timing of this actually does make perfect sense to me now, announcing the policy after the newest SCOTUS ruling.  Limiting the options the NFLPA has in regards to how they file their lawsuit.

that also came to mind,yes

[Gass3268]

[IndustrialJustice]

Yeah, the NFLPA is going to sue:

Took me a second to connect the dots; but the timing of this actually does make perfect sense to me now, announcing the policy after the newest SCOTUS ruling.  Limiting the options the NFLPA has in regards to how they file their lawsuit.

that also came to mind,yes

There will be no lawsuit. The Epic case has nothing to do with this, as that concerned the class-action litigation rights of non-union workers. The NFLPA can file an unfair labor practice charge with the NLRB if it wants to accuse the owners of failing to negotiate over a mandatory subject of bargaining (here, concerning the working conditions of its members).

[Cold War Liberal]

Trump: "Maybe you shouldn't be in the country" if you don't stand for the flag

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Disgusting totalitarianism espoused from the President yet again.

My opinion on this issue:

There need to be actual reasons to feel national pride before symbols of pride mean anything.

[Sestak]

When the sporting field is turned into a political football, everyone loses.

The owners of the NFL teams want the kneeling to stop because they will suffer financially.

Apparently the first player to kneel cannot get back into a contract, so the punishment for kneeling is already in full effect.

I see it as a workplace arrangement.

They are, after all, professional sports people.

He can’t get a contract because he went 1-13 in his last year. It’s not all cuz of the protests, it’s cuz he just flat out sцcks

He's not good but he's definitely better than some of the other backup QB's in the league. He'd be in the league now if he never kneeled. RGIII got signed by the Ravens and he was out of the league in 2017 and is worse than Kaep IMO.

RG3 can atleast win you a few games. Plus he’s just Flacco’s back up. Also yeah if he wasn’t so polarizing maybe he’d still be in the league, no team wants a player taking up valuable space that your own fans would despise. but the stats speak for them self. Any college QB is better than Kraperdick.

Oh come on. Yeah, Kaep isn't the best out there, but he's still better than a good quarter of current starters.

[KingSweden]

When the sporting field is turned into a political football, everyone loses.

The owners of the NFL teams want the kneeling to stop because they will suffer financially.

Apparently the first player to kneel cannot get back into a contract, so the punishment for kneeling is already in full effect.

I see it as a workplace arrangement.

They are, after all, professional sports people.

He can’t get a contract because he went 1-13 in his last year. It’s not all cuz of the protests, it’s cuz he just flat out sцcks

He's not good but he's definitely better than some of the other backup QB's in the league. He'd be in the league now if he never kneeled. RGIII got signed by the Ravens and he was out of the league in 2017 and is worse than Kaep IMO.

RG3 can atleast win you a few games. Plus he’s just Flacco’s back up. Also yeah if he wasn’t so polarizing maybe he’d still be in the league, no team wants a player taking up valuable space that your own fans would despise. but the stats speak for them self. Any college QB is better than Kraperdick.

Kaepernick definitely lost his touch post-2013 (though defenses adjusted to similar mobile QBs - not something exclusive to him) but that’s still an insane statement. He’d be at minimum a serviceable backup.

[Alabama_Indy10]

When the sporting field is turned into a political football, everyone loses.

The owners of the NFL teams want the kneeling to stop because they will suffer financially.

Apparently the first player to kneel cannot get back into a contract, so the punishment for kneeling is already in full effect.

I see it as a workplace arrangement.

They are, after all, professional sports people.

He can’t get a contract because he went 1-13 in his last year. It’s not all cuz of the protests, it’s cuz he just flat out sцcks

He's not good but he's definitely better than some of the other backup QB's in the league. He'd be in the league now if he never kneeled. RGIII got signed by the Ravens and he was out of the league in 2017 and is worse than Kaep IMO.

RG3 can atleast win you a few games. Plus he’s just Flacco’s back up. Also yeah if he wasn’t so polarizing maybe he’d still be in the league, no team wants a player taking up valuable space that your own fans would despise. but the stats speak for them self. Any college QB is better than Kraperdick.

Oh come on. Yeah, Kaep isn't the best out there, but he's still better than a good quarter of current starters.

Better than a quarter of current starters. Who are you watching?? The Browns?

[Gass3268]

When the sporting field is turned into a political football, everyone loses.

The owners of the NFL teams want the kneeling to stop because they will suffer financially.

Apparently the first player to kneel cannot get back into a contract, so the punishment for kneeling is already in full effect.

I see it as a workplace arrangement.

They are, after all, professional sports people.

He can’t get a contract because he went 1-13 in his last year. It’s not all cuz of the protests, it’s cuz he just flat out sцcks

He's not good but he's definitely better than some of the other backup QB's in the league. He'd be in the league now if he never kneeled. RGIII got signed by the Ravens and he was out of the league in 2017 and is worse than Kaep IMO.

RG3 can atleast win you a few games. Plus he’s just Flacco’s back up. Also yeah if he wasn’t so polarizing maybe he’d still be in the league, no team wants a player taking up valuable space that your own fans would despise. but the stats speak for them self. Any college QB is better than Kraperdick.

Kaepernick definitely lost his touch post-2013 (though defenses adjusted to similar mobile QBs - not something exclusive to him) but that’s still an insane statement. He’d be at minimum a serviceable backup.

This is from just 3 days ago:

Report: Colin Kaepernick Collusion Case Revealed Teams Viewed Him as Starting QB

[OSR stands with Israel]

When the sporting field is turned into a political football, everyone loses.

The owners of the NFL teams want the kneeling to stop because they will suffer financially.

Apparently the first player to kneel cannot get back into a contract, so the punishment for kneeling is already in full effect.

I see it as a workplace arrangement.

They are, after all, professional sports people.

He can’t get a contract because he went 1-13 in his last year. It’s not all cuz of the protests, it’s cuz he just flat out sцcks

He's not good but he's definitely better than some of the other backup QB's in the league. He'd be in the league now if he never kneeled. RGIII got signed by the Ravens and he was out of the league in 2017 and is worse than Kaep IMO.

RG3 can atleast win you a few games. Plus he’s just Flacco’s back up. Also yeah if he wasn’t so polarizing maybe he’d still be in the league, no team wants a player taking up valuable space that your own fans would despise. but the stats speak for them self. Any college QB is better than Kraperdick.

Kaepernick definitely lost his touch post-2013 (though defenses adjusted to similar mobile QBs - not something exclusive to him) but that’s still an insane statement. He’d be at minimum a serviceable backup.

- Yes he is good enough to be a backup but teams are not going to sign you for a backup role if your going to be a big distraction for the team .

- I would say Jim Harbaugh was mainly responsible for SF success along with Frank Gore and their defense not Kap. I mean Alex Smith also took the SF team very far as well  

[KingSweden]

When the sporting field is turned into a political football, everyone loses.

The owners of the NFL teams want the kneeling to stop because they will suffer financially.

Apparently the first player to kneel cannot get back into a contract, so the punishment for kneeling is already in full effect.

I see it as a workplace arrangement.

They are, after all, professional sports people.

He can’t get a contract because he went 1-13 in his last year. It’s not all cuz of the protests, it’s cuz he just flat out sцcks

He's not good but he's definitely better than some of the other backup QB's in the league. He'd be in the league now if he never kneeled. RGIII got signed by the Ravens and he was out of the league in 2017 and is worse than Kaep IMO.

RG3 can atleast win you a few games. Plus he’s just Flacco’s back up. Also yeah if he wasn’t so polarizing maybe he’d still be in the league, no team wants a player taking up valuable space that your own fans would despise. but the stats speak for them self. Any college QB is better than Kraperdick.

Kaepernick definitely lost his touch post-2013 (though defenses adjusted to similar mobile QBs - not something exclusive to him) but that’s still an insane statement. He’d be at minimum a serviceable backup.

- Yes he is good enough to be a backup but teams are not going to sign you for a backup role if your going to be a big distraction for the team .

- I would say Jim Harbaugh was mainly responsible for SF success along with Frank Gore and their defense not Kap. I mean Alex Smith also took the SF team very far as well  

I don’t disagree. The team’s collapse after Harbaugh left is proof enough.

[Sestak]

When the sporting field is turned into a political football, everyone loses.

The owners of the NFL teams want the kneeling to stop because they will suffer financially.

Apparently the first player to kneel cannot get back into a contract, so the punishment for kneeling is already in full effect.

I see it as a workplace arrangement.

They are, after all, professional sports people.

He can’t get a contract because he went 1-13 in his last year. It’s not all cuz of the protests, it’s cuz he just flat out sцcks

He's not good but he's definitely better than some of the other backup QB's in the league. He'd be in the league now if he never kneeled. RGIII got signed by the Ravens and he was out of the league in 2017 and is worse than Kaep IMO.

RG3 can atleast win you a few games. Plus he’s just Flacco’s back up. Also yeah if he wasn’t so polarizing maybe he’d still be in the league, no team wants a player taking up valuable space that your own fans would despise. but the stats speak for them self. Any college QB is better than Kraperdick.

Kaepernick definitely lost his touch post-2013 (though defenses adjusted to similar mobile QBs - not something exclusive to him) but that’s still an insane statement. He’d be at minimum a serviceable backup.

- Yes he is good enough to be a backup but teams are not going to sign you for a backup role if your going to be a big distraction for the team .

- I would say Jim Harbaugh was mainly responsible for SF success along with Frank Gore and their defense not Kap. I mean Alex Smith also took the SF team very far as well  

Yeah, but it wouldn't have been possible if he was flat-out awful. He's not great, but still leagues better than DeShone Kizer, Geno Smith, or Bryce Petty.

[Sestak]

When the sporting field is turned into a political football, everyone loses.

The owners of the NFL teams want the kneeling to stop because they will suffer financially.

Apparently the first player to kneel cannot get back into a contract, so the punishment for kneeling is already in full effect.

I see it as a workplace arrangement.

They are, after all, professional sports people.

He can’t get a contract because he went 1-13 in his last year. It’s not all cuz of the protests, it’s cuz he just flat out sцcks

He's not good but he's definitely better than some of the other backup QB's in the league. He'd be in the league now if he never kneeled. RGIII got signed by the Ravens and he was out of the league in 2017 and is worse than Kaep IMO.

RG3 can atleast win you a few games. Plus he’s just Flacco’s back up. Also yeah if he wasn’t so polarizing maybe he’d still be in the league, no team wants a player taking up valuable space that your own fans would despise. but the stats speak for them self. Any college QB is better than Kraperdick.

Kaepernick definitely lost his touch post-2013 (though defenses adjusted to similar mobile QBs - not something exclusive to him) but that’s still an insane statement. He’d be at minimum a serviceable backup.

- Yes he is good enough to be a backup but teams are not going to sign you for a backup role if your going to be a big distraction for the team .

- I would say Jim Harbaugh was mainly responsible for SF success along with Frank Gore and their defense not Kap. I mean Alex Smith also took the SF team very far as well  

Yeah, but it wouldn't have been possible if he was flat-out awful. He's not great, but still leagues better than DeShone Kizer, Geno Smith, or Bryce Petty.

Not to mention Alex Smith still played decently well in KC. So it's not entirely the system.

[7,052,770]

https://youtu.be/1I0cUTXwr-k

After viewing that video, you won't be able to argue that Kaepernick's performance (which admittedly isn't that good) is the sole reason for his unemployment

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Kaepernick is PROBABLY good enough to have a backup QB job in the NFL.  He could possibly start for some of the weaker teams.  I don't know how good he is now, and I have long suspected that he was/is hiding an injury of some kind because he lost his starting gig BEFORE the kneeling stuff.

The reason Kaepernick doesn't have a job right now is that most teams don't want a celebrity as their backup QB, and they don't want a celebrity as a STARTING QB who is going to ignite a QB controversy.  In that respect, Kaepernick is like Tim Tebow; a guy who was a CELEBRITY who had been a STAR who was in a position of having the starting job while his viability as a NFL QB was being questioned. You then have a guy who''s not your best player getting the bulk of the media attention.  That rarely ends well.  The fan controversy with Kaepernick is the cherry on the top of the whipped cream.

The other reason is that Kaepernick, having been a star,  if signed,  would have to deal with the issue of not being a star, but being just another player.  That's hard to do when you generate the media buzz Kaepernick has; he's a celebrity in his own right now, and not just a sports celebrity.  When a guy like this is your BACKUP QB, or a marginal starter, it means that your backup QB has had to swallow a lot of ego.  Not everyone can do it.  Tebow couldn't do it; he was unwulling to be a back up QB once he tasted the starter's job.  I cannot imgine Kaepernick being happy as a backup.  I CAN imagine Kaepernick no longer being good enough to start.

[Calthrina950]

they need to stand.

No they don't. This is not the DPRK.

You would not take seriously the opinions of someone who had no regard for the Civil Rights Movement.  Who had no regard for Martin Luther King or John Lewis, or Malcolm X or Stokely Carmichael.  Who would not, say, observe a moment of silence for MLK on his birthday if a sporting event were being held because they didn't think him worthy of that.  

Let's say the NFL had some players who, during a playoff game, wouldn't stand for that particular moment of silence.  Would that be THEIR free speech rights?  Or would you be pleased when the NFL disciplined such players for their divisive gesture?

For the record, I think that the NFL would be well within their rights to discipline such players, who were not only offensive to fans, but were the source of locker room tension with their "MLK Sucks!" gesture.

So perhaps you could consider how offensive it is for millions of Americans to see NFL players saying, in effect, "America Sucks!" by their gesture.  Especially when some of those players are little more than apologists for folks committing crimes.  And before you criticize that statement, consider if whether or not you would consider the other (admittedly hypothetical) example to be a case of folks who were little more than apologists for Bull Connor, Robert Shelton and Sheriff Jim Clark et al.

As for "free speech", this is a nation where Lebron James, a mere high school graduate, with no particular credentials for his opinions to be taken any more seriously than, say, yours or mine, is constantly asked where he weighs in on criminal justice issues.  Why?  Because he's a CELEBRITY.  Celebrities not only enjoy the free speech we do, they enjoy access to widespread distribution of their opinions through the mass media.  The next reporter that sticks a mic in my face and asks if I prefer toilet paper over or under will be the first.  These guys have all the access to media a person could want; how are their "free speech" rights being denied?

You would conclude that an NFL player who refused to observe a moment of silence for MLK on his birthday would be a racist.  That's you're right, and it would be a good guess.  So why would I be wrong in concluding that the "kneelers" in the NFL simply hate America?  There is a difference in believing your country to be wrong on an important matter and wishing to set it right and thinking your country just plain sucks.  Someone in the former category would probably NOT kneel, but would speak out in proper venues.  I don't think I'm wrong, however, in stating that a decent percentage of the Kneelers simply hate America and their gesture is just showing their posterior for America to see.

I would point out that in the mid-1960s, when you weren't even an idea and when the real RFK walked the Earth, the American Flag was a symbol of the Civil Rights movement.  



While I don't think much of BLM overall, they do raise some legitimate issues of racism in criminal justice that deserve discussion and remedy.  Their issues, however, are with police, that are primarily local agencies.  The American flag represents the whole of America, and the anthem is, in the context of the NFL, a tribute to our military.  In that respect, I think that the SINCERE kneelers (as opposed to the Kneelers that truly loathe America) are taking out their frustrations against the wrong folks.  There are millions of NFL fans of all races who have family as active military, and millions more who are veterans; should their sentiments be blown off?  I'm not one who normally chooses to patronize or not patronize an enterprise based on their political beliefs, but I would find it hard to reward an enterprise that actively provides a forum for folks to display their loathing of America.

My position on this issue is complex. It has been generally acknowledged that private companies (which the NFL is) have the right to regulate the conduct of their employees while they are on the job. Thus, by the legal definition, it is the right of the NFL to regulate what their players and their personnel can and cannot do when they are out on the field. The recent regulations barring them from kneeling would fall within this framework. At the same time, however, people do have the right to freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of assembly, and many over our history have utilized these rights to protest against injustice or to push for social change.

The actions taken by Kaepernick and by the other NFL players aren't completely unprecedented; you are definitely aware of what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did at the Mexico City Olympics back in 1968. They did so in protest at the injustices and the discrimination that were (and are) prevalent in the United States at that time. I think that the NFL players have been clearly motivated by a desire to use their public platform to protest for a legitimate cause-that of police brutality. Yes, many of the incidents which they have been protesting involved people who were legitimately violating the law, and were dealt with in the appropriate manner. But many of them also involved people who were treated in a horrendous manner by law enforcement, in ways that clearly violate the precepts of the law and of this country.

Thus, I think that the NFL players shouldn't be barred from speaking out against such injustices. I agree with you that a NFL game may not be the best venue in which to do it; they do have access to other means of communication (i.e. interviews, rallies, television programs, advertisements), that many average people usually don't have access to. But at the same time, I think that attacking NFL players for being "anti-American", or attacking NFL fans for being "racist" is unproductive. There are many NFL fans who support what the players have done, and there are players who haven't participated in the kneeling. A deeper understanding of this situation by both sides would, in my opinion, do much to bring us to a point where we could begin actively addressing the issues involved.