Anti-Semitism in UK Labour megathread

[Biden Stans Are Cringelords]

Its also worth emphasising again that anti-semitism is an thing that is present across lots of 'respectable' middle-class society and is often seen as less important than other types of xenophobia.  This isn't just a problem unique to the Labour Party - remember some of the stories ran in the Tory-supporting press about a certain recent Labour Party leader who happened to be Jewish; and how certain Tory MPs prided at spreading some of those tropes around?  Or indeed, some of the things that were recently said about Mr Soros when he spent a bit of money to support groups favouring remaining in the UK.  Not to mention the rather terrible history that the Liberal Democrats have on the subject - how many years did it take them to expel David Laws for example; who said lots of clearly anti-semitic and very nasty things about Jewish people over an incredibly long period and he's not the only one.

Now personally I hold Labour to a much higher standard than I do the Tories or the Liberals because I'm sympathetic to their aims and think that a party that prides itself on its record for challenging racism shouldn't be xenophobic towards anyone.  I'm also not Jewish so I can't really comment on the actual lived experiences of Jewish people and wouldn't try to talk over them to give my opinion on what the Labour Parties response to this whole mess has been.  I do genuinely think that Corbyn isn't anti-semitic himself but is rather ignorant about anti-semitism and that's a problem that needs to be solved if they want to build bridges with the Jewish community.  I think that there are people who're not antisemitic who sometimes use... irresponsible words when sharing their opinion and most reasonable people would understand that and change that wording at least if called out.  However there are anti-semites that were in Labour - Livingstone is an example of this - and its good that the party made the decision that it did about him and people of his ilk although there is more that they could do on the question.

The Tories using the thing as a stick to beat Labour is totally expected - they are Tories after all - but hypocritical - look at the above example - but also typical of what all in politics do.  Labour factionalism is toxic and incomprehensible to a non-Labour member like me so I'll concede to Al over it since he clearly knows a lot more than I do.

It's still ridiculous. Why would Jews in the UK fear a new Holocaust? Who is going to commit a systematic genocide of UK Jews?  And how would they do so now that Jews have Israel to escape to?

There are lots of Jewish people in the World; I would wager that most of them who live outside Israel have no interest in moving their unless they are forced to.  Besides; the subtext that I'm getting from this post is that anti-semitism isn't a bog problem since Jewish people can just move to a safe place which isn't overly compassionate, ignores the deep history that the Jewish Community in London has and also would apply to many other nasty forms of discrimination that you probably wouldn't be quite as flippant about.

The Holocaust comment is so indefensibly ridiculous that all of you have to keep diverting from it to a discussion about antisemitism in general.

[Biden Stans Are Cringelords]

You were pushing back WAY before the holocaust comment.

Yes, pushing back on the idea that accusing an individual Jew of being more loyal to Israel then their home country is antisemitism or an attack on Jews in general. What does that have to do with the plight of the Jewish community?

[BudgieForce]

You were pushing back WAY before the holocaust comment.

Yes, pushing back on the idea that accusing an individual Jew of being more loyal to Israel then their home country is antisemitism or an attack on Jews in general. What does that have to do with the plight of the Jewish community?

Jews have undergone millennia of prosecution culminating to the holocaust. For many Jews, its not hard to be worried that ones native country will turn their back if rampant antisemitism rears its ugly head again. Hence why many Jews of all nationalities support Israel. It is the only country that we know for a fact will not turn its back on the Jewish diaspora.

[Antonio the Sixth]

oh ffs, this is pathetic

A party of the left just can't take an ambiguous stance on antisemitism. This is not what the left is about, and if Corbyn doesn't understand that he has no business leading a party of the left.

Is there anyone of the Corbyn wing of the party who has spoken unambiguously against these attitudes?

[Blair]

oh ffs, this is pathetic

A party of the left just can't take an ambiguous stance on antisemitism. This is not what the left is about, and if Corbyn doesn't understand that he has no business leading a party of the left.

Is there anyone of the Corbyn wing of the party who has spoken unambiguously against these attitudes?

Jon Lansman (who is Jewish) came out against it quite strongly when it last reared it's head; but he has an equally awful history of tolerating, supporting and allowing individuals on the left to remain in  various internal positions despite said people making antisemitic comments.

The problem of course is that lots of people like Owen Jones, John McDonnell etc love to stand up and say 'Let's get rid of the evil of antisemitism, we must do better etc' whilst doing very little.

I'd also echo what Al said; Labour as an institution has such awful procedures for actually taking any sort of quick, and widespread action. Just in the last 3 years, there's been a whole list of legal threats against the party, and even a high court ruling. 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This is a useful thread on one of the issues at hand:

https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/1022832312822767616

[DC Al Fine]

oh ffs, this is pathetic

A party of the left just can't take an ambiguous stance on antisemitism. This is not what the left is about, and if Corbyn doesn't understand that he has no business leading a party of the left.

But they're dirty Joos Tony. Don't you see? That makes it different /s

[Silent Hunter]

Here's the thing, if Margaret Hodge called Corbyn a "f***ing anti-Semite" and hasn't apologised, she must believe it's the case.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I wonder what would have happened if Gerald Kaufman was still alive.

[Silent Hunter]

So, the primary debate on all this seems to be whether you should be allowed to compare Jews to Nazis, which isn't even a good argument strategy.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This is very good:

https://jewishquarterly.org/2018/07/what-happened-when-jeremy-corbyns-office-reached-out-to-me-to-talk-about-antisemitism/

[Silent Hunter]

I think that IHRA definition needs a new example: Accusing supporters of Israel of being paid shills for the Israeli government.

[Ethelberth]

Corbyn is Arsenal supporter (and represents them in parliament). so anti-Semitism is perquisite of his job. But, Tottenham is Labour country too.

[Hnv1]

Corbyn is Arsenal supporter (and represents them in parliament). so anti-Semitism is perquisite of his job. But, Tottenham is Labour country too.

What? As a Jewish Tottenham supporter (used to stand on shelf pelting coins on them at the park lane) I think arsenal have more Jewish supporters nowadays. But Arsenal do have obnoxious leftists in their ranks.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Willsman's comments were already known  - and tbh were bad enough that there should have been more of a fuss at the time! - but the tape really... er... wow. It would be serious even were it not over this issue. Not that there's anything remotely surprising about this: Willsman has long had a reputation as an exceptionally nasty piece of work. But this takes us back to the old problem: he's a CLPDer from way back when, a friend of all the right people. So much of this has been about the craven protection of mates...

[Intell]

#JC8

[Antonio the Sixth]

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE

why is it that the only major party leader in the Western world with a genuinely compelling answer to the rise of neoliberalism is  also such a f**king bigoted dolt?

[Blair]

The power of audio. I'd really urge people to listen to it; he comes across as every shouty 70 year old bloke who rants about the Jews does. Completely demented.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Momentum have dropped their endorsement for Willsman; the CLPD have doubled down on theirs. This is... important. Momentum was established essentially in order to function as a front organisation for the CLPD, but is now acting like an independent subfaction. Tectonic plates on the Left are moving it seems, though to what end no one can know.

[Pandaguineapig]

I love how many of the people who protested Trump's visit to the u.k because of his supposed bigotry full-heartedly support a Corbyn-led labour party

[dead0man]

I love how many of the people who protested Trump's visit to the u.k because of his supposed bigotry full-heartedly support a Corbyn-led labour party

Trump's racists are mean and obvious, our racists are sophisticated about it.....or something.  I mean, it's just Jews.  It's not a group of good victims like Pakistani pedophiles.

[Silent Hunter]

Corbyn could do something that would convince a lot of people he's not an anti-Semite; meet with the Israeli Prime Minister.

[DavidB.]

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1024398074054156288?s=19

https://twitter.com/KarenPollock100/status/1024646042485227520?s=19

Lol at Owen Smith's pathetic spinning. The late Hajo Meyer was a total nutcase, somebody whose views were hated by most of the Dutch Jewish community and would presumably be hated just as strongly by most of the British Jewish community. I can't even blame him, because he survived Auschwitz, which is just too much for any human being. But his political endeavors against Israel were sickening and tokenizing him as a representative of Jews is just like neoconferates tokenizing Ye for his opinion on slavery; Meyer's extreme opinion of Israel is about as far out there.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Yeah, sorry, this is it. I'm no longer in the "Corbyn enables antisemitism but isn't an antisemite himsel" camp- it's now clear to anyone who's not intentionally blinding himself that Corbyn IS an antisemite.

[DavidB.]

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1025129858014359553?s=19

In all fairness, you can't really blame Corbyn for this. It's not as if he's been looking to be associated with Duke. Guilt by association.