French Socialist Party leadership election

[augbell]

Hi there, as a member of the Parti Socialste (PS), I'd like to talk to you about our current leadership election

Context:
The PS used to be the strongest French political party. In 2012 we controlled the presidency, both houses, all the governors but 2, 60% of the big cities' mayors... Then, we lost every election. Mayoral in 2014, gubernatorial in 2015, presidential and legislative (for the lower house) in 2017.
Our party has been divided in two wings since the 90's. The right wing and the left wing. The first has allways dominated the party except in 2008-2012, when Martine Aubry formed an alliance with half of the right wing.
In 2017 primaries, the Prime Minister Manuel Valls, seen as the rightest man of the Party, lost to Benoît Hamon, who criticised the government in the campaign and adopted a very leftist platform. Manuel Valls, Gérard Collomb (mayor of Lyon), Bertrand Delanoë (former mayor of Paris) and other leaders of the right wing defected and joined Emmanuel Macron.
After his loss in presidential election (6%) Benoît Hamon left the PS and founded a new movement, Génération.s.
The PS only has 30 MPs, out of 577. A lot of members left the Party to go in En Marche (Emmanuel Macron's new party), or in Générations.s, we might have less than 30 000 voters. Former leader Jean-Christophe Cambadélis resigned after the legislative election. The interim leader is senator Rachid Temal.

The questions raised by this election are which attitude do we adopt towards the government (strong opposition or constructive opposition, you need to know that bipartisanship is not usual in France), and can we exist between En Marche and La France Insoumise (unsubdued France, Jean-Luc Mélenchon's party). We had been the major left party since the 70's, when Mitterrand managed to surpass the Communist Party. But now Jean-Luc Mélenchon does far better than us (20% in presidential election, and surpass us in every by-election). Fun fact, both Mélechon and Macron was members of the PS in the 2000's.

[Zanas]

Hello augbell, welcome to the forum. You know, this particular board is a sophisticated one with politically articulated posters, so you shouldn't oversimplify things by calling regional elections "gubarnatorial" and regional council presidents "governors" : posters here know better.

Also, I'm sorry I couldn't resist laughing out loud while reading the name of the thread, just for the heck of it, no offence meant to you. I also had a chuckle learning that the PS interim leader is called Temal (sounds like "t'es mal", "you're in trouble" in French...).

Anyway, this should be interesting. Or, maybe more accurately, this should be fun.

[augbell]

Candidates:

First Orientation text (order was drawn lots): a shared progress to make the left win, by Luc Carvounas

Who is he ?
Current MP from Val-de-Marne (working class suburbs), former senator, former mayor of Alfortville.
He's the weirdest candidate. He switched from the right wing to the left wing.
He used to be the henchman of Manuel Valls. He endorsed him in 2011 primaries, when Manuel did only 5%. He strongly advocated the "loss of nationality" law in 2016, which divided so much the PS. He endorsed Manuel Valls again in 2017, but, unlike him, he then campaigned strongly for Benoît Hamon. Elected MP, he voted against the "déclaration de confiance du gouvernement" (a new government has to receive approval from the National Assembly). Only two others (out of 30) socialist MPs did so. 4 voted for the government, the others abstained. He built an alliance with the friends of Benoît Hamon who stayed in the PS (MP Régis Juanico, former MP Matthieu Hanotin). He's also endorsed by people from the medium line in the party, who endorsed Vincent Peillon during the 2017 primaries (he tried to break the left wing right wing divide), for exemple senator Marie-Pierre de La Gontrie or former MP Patrick Mennucci (Jean-Luc Mélenchon is now the MP of his former constituency). François Pupponi, an MP that was also close to Manuel Valls, is also endorsing him.

He stands for a clear opposition to the government. He wants to build a "rainbow left" alliance (which is funny because he's homosexual. He was the first MP to marry a same-sex partner after same-sex marriage was legalised), with Génération.s, the Green Party, the Communist Party and the Left Radical Party (which is center-left), BUT without Jean-Luc Mélenchon, because he wants to destroy the PS.

He might finish last, because he has few local supporters. Because he switched his position in the Party, he might have made more ennemies than friends everywhere. But the Génération.s members who were not excluded from the PS might vote for him. His candidacy might be a way for Benoît Hamon to divide the left wing of the PS, and thus to ensure Génération.s to be the only left party, with a center left PS. Benoît Hamon is known to punch below the belt.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Hi Augbell, welcome to the forum! And thanks for making this thread. PS is probably irrelevant now, but still fascinating to follow their internal squabbles.

[augbell]

Hi Augbell, welcome to the forum! And thanks for making this thread. PS is probably irrelevant now, but still fascinating to follow their internal squabbles.

You know, we survived during WWI and WWII, we can survive a young centrist

[MAINEiac4434]

This is wonderful. I for one hope PS comes back stronger than ever.

I hope you give us rundowns on every candidate.

[windjammer]

Hi Augbell, welcome to the forum! And thanks for making this thread. PS is probably irrelevant now, but still fascinating to follow their internal squabbles.

Well,
They are going to matter for the mayoral elections.

[augbell]

Second orientation text: Dear comrades, by Stéphane Le Foll

Who is he ?

Former european MP, former principal private secretary of François Hollande when he was the PS leader, former Secratary of Agriculture and government's spokesman, MP for Sarthe (rural western department).
He's the most loyal politician to François Hollande. He supported him during the whle presidency. He's from the former right wing majority, and is the less leftist candidate. He advocates a "cosntructive" and "intelligent" opposition to the government. He wants to focus on the defense of last government's policies, like ecology, or putting the economy back on track. His ambition is to make the party great again in a sence. He wants us to be proud to be socialist. He strongly defends European Union. Europe is maybe the subject that divides the most the PS . Some are strong "europeist" because Europe is bringing us international cooperation, peace, cultural exchange, a stronger economy than if we were alone... An other wing, the moderate, agrees that Europe is important but focuses on saying that we need to make a "social Europe", that helps the working class. A third wing, really minority (but mine ) claims that Europe can't change and will remain economicly conservative, so we need to distance ourself from it. Stéphane Le Foll is from the first wing.
He's endorsed by former secrataries: senator, former Secratary of Labour and former mayor of Dijon François Rebsamen, former Secratary of transport and mayor of Boulogne-sur-Mer Frédéric Cuvillier, former Secratary of Outre-mer and only remaining socialist MP for Paris George Pau-Langevin.
His supporters are mostly old members (in my section his representative joined the party in 1973), that love the PS and support the PS whatever happens. He has strong support in some federations (the PS is divided not by region but by department, one federation per department), such as Isère (Grenoble region in the Alpes), Pas-de-Calais (in the north), Paris (mayor of the 18th district of Paris Eric Lejoindre is supporting him), in Sarthe and surrounding departments (his region), in Pyrénées-Orientales (french Catalonia). Meanwhile, he has absolutely no supporter in other department, like Saône et Loire (in Burgundy, Arnaud Montebourg's department), in Haute-Pyrénées... Luc Carvounas is facing the same problem. He has strong supports in departments where the local PS leader is backing him (Val-de-Marne his department, Hauts-de-Seine, Parisian leafy suburbs, Cher, in central rural France), but is completely absent in others (much more than Stéphane Le Foll).

Stéphane Le Foll is known for his charism. He speaks well and is good to fight. Yesterday there has been a debate between the four candidates, he strongly attacks left wing candidate Emmanuel Maurel. Something very relevant, he said that the PS needs to have a strong leader to exist and survive. The platform will only follow, and will be made by the Party members. He insisted on the fact that we need someone to "punch" against Jean-Luc Mélenchon, Marine Le Pen, or Laurent Wauquiez (new right wing party Les Républicains leader). He didn't mention Macron. His supporters are pushing his personal qualities forward, and want to make this election a leader election and not a platform election.
His strategy to win is to reduce the advance of the leading candidate, also comming from the majority, Olivier Faure. Their ideology is quite the same, so he's insisting on his own personality.

[Zinneke]

Salut augbell et bienvenue au forum

In general, who did these guys support during the Reims Congress? Are there any substantial members of the Hamon or Ségolène wings left?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Merci pour tes/vos contributions sur le forum augbell.

[augbell]

Salut augbell et bienvenue au forum

In general, who did these guys support during the Reims Congress? Are there any substantial members of the Hamon or Ségolène wings left?

In 2008, Le Foll was with Delanoë, Maurel with Hamon, Carvounas with Royal. I don’t know for Faure.
Hamon has still partisans in the PS. The right wing tried to exclude them but was not able to do so. Regis Juanico, Mathieu Hanotin are still in the party. Ségolène Royal partisans are gone with Macron.

[Tirnam]

Hi Augbell, welcome to the forum! And thanks for making this thread. PS is probably irrelevant now, but still fascinating to follow their internal squabbles.

Well,
They are going to matter for the mayoral elections.

I think that for the municipal elections the local context will be decisive for forming an alliance. For example in Paris Hidalgo has already said that an alliance with LREM is possible, in other cities the PS will look more towards LFI.
It's the same thing with LR, on a national level Wauquiez pushes to a systematic opposition to Macron but on a local level some LR officials have already called for an alliance with LREM (in Marseille, Paris, ...)

Stéphane Le Foll is known for his charism. He speaks well and is good to fight. Yesterday there has been a debate between the four candidates, he strongly attacks left wing candidate Emmanuel Maurel. Something very relevant, he said that the PS needs to have a strong leader to exist and survive. The platform will only follow, and will be made by the Party members. He insisted on the fact that we need someone to "punch" against Jean-Luc Mélenchon, Marine Le Pen, or Laurent Wauquiez (new right wing party Les Républicains leader). He didn't mention Macron. His supporters are pushing his personal qualities forward, and want to make this election a leader election and not a platform election.
His strategy to win is to reduce the advance of the leading candidate, also comming from the majority, Olivier Faure. Their ideology is quite the same, so he's insisting on his own personality.

I watched some parts of the debate last night and Le Foll did quite a good job, especially against Faure who looked nervous.

[Zinneke]

Merci pour tes/vos contributions sur le forum augbell.

Tu devais choisir entre "tes" et "vos" .

Salut augbell et bienvenue au forum

In general, who did these guys support during the Reims Congress? Are there any substantial members of the Hamon or Ségolène wings left?

In 2008, Le Foll was with Delanoë, Maurel with Hamon, Carvounas with Royal. I don’t know for Faure.
Hamon has still partisans in the PS. The right wing tried to exclude them but was not able to do so. Regis Juanico, Mathieu Hanotin are still in the party. Ségolène Royal partisans are gone with Macron.

Thanks.

Lien pour le débat cité?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Merci pour tes/vos contributions sur le forum augbell.

Tu devais choisir entre "tes" et "vos" .

Forgive my French!
Ok, in all honesty I wasn't sure which term to use. So I used both.

[Zinneke]

Merci pour tes/vos contributions sur le forum augbell.

Tu devais choisir entre "tes" et "vos" .

Forgive my French!
Ok, in all honesty I wasn't sure which term to use. So I used both.

Because we're on a forum "tes" is OK.
You use "vos" or in general the second person of plural for addressing people formally. A bit like the third person "usted" and "su" in Spanish ("gracias por sus contribuciones sobre el forum").

I don't think augbel minds though.

I found the debate if you want to practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQoT1wg7mjc

The comments are quite funny.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Merci pour tes/vos contributions sur le forum augbell.

Tu devais choisir entre "tes" et "vos" .

Forgive my French!
Ok, in all honesty I wasn't sure which term to use. So I used both.

Because we're on a forum "tes" is OK.
You use "vos" or in general the second person of plural for addressing people formally. A bit like the third person "usted" and "su" in Spanish ("gracias por sus contribuciones sobre el forum").

I don't think augbel minds though.

I found the debate if you want to practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQoT1wg7mjc

The comments are quite funny.

I hope he at least appreciates my efforts to talk to him in his native language at least. Too frequently, we Yanks are too lazy in trying to do that. Sad!
French is a beautiful language.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

augbell, why you are still a member of PS?

[augbell]

Merci pour tes/vos contributions sur le forum augbell.

Tu devais choisir entre "tes" et "vos" .

Forgive my French!
Ok, in all honesty I wasn't sure which term to use. So I used both.

Because we're on a forum "tes" is OK.
You use "vos" or in general the second person of plural for addressing people formally. A bit like the third person "usted" and "su" in Spanish ("gracias por sus contribuciones sobre el forum").

I don't think augbel minds though.

I found the debate if you want to practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQoT1wg7mjc

The comments are quite funny.

I hope he at least appreciates my efforts to talk to him in his native language at least. Too frequently, we Yanks are too lazy in trying to do that. Sad!
French is a beautiful language.

I appreciate it of course !
I think we’re as lazy as you are, it’s just that we must learn English. People who learn languages in America are not lazy, in France it’s just like... mandatory

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Merci pour tes/vos contributions sur le forum augbell.

Tu devais choisir entre "tes" et "vos" .

Forgive my French!
Ok, in all honesty I wasn't sure which term to use. So I used both.

Because we're on a forum "tes" is OK.
You use "vos" or in general the second person of plural for addressing people formally. A bit like the third person "usted" and "su" in Spanish ("gracias por sus contribuciones sobre el forum").

I don't think augbel minds though.

I found the debate if you want to practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQoT1wg7mjc

The comments are quite funny.

I hope he at least appreciates my efforts to talk to him in his native language at least. Too frequently, we Yanks are too lazy in trying to do that. Sad!
French is a beautiful language.

I appreciate it of course !
I think we’re as lazy as you are, it’s just that we must learn English. People who learn languages in America are not lazy, in France it’s just like... mandatory

You know what my obligatory response to the first sentence in your post is?
Merci.

[augbell]

augbell, why you are still a member of PS?

I'm a leftist, I want to get involved, and I think a well organised party is the best thing to do so. I'm not a green (they're multiculturalist), neither a communist. The PS is a place where we can debate and have different minds, but it's not the chief who decides what we will defend, neither a simple vote. More than all, I've an affective bound to it. I've been a member since I'm 15, and the PS is the historic left party

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Are the traitorous likes of Gérard Collomb still members of PS?

[augbell]

Are the traitorous likes of Gérard Collomb still members of PS?

No, the last one, Secratary of Defense Jean-Yves Le Drian, decided to leave the PS today. But we still have mainy members that campaigned against the party in presidential and legislative election.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

augbell, why you are still a member of PS?

I'm a leftist, I want to get involved, and I think a well organised party is the best thing to do so. I'm not a green (they're multiculturalist), neither a communist. The PS is a place where we can debate and have different minds, but it's not the chief who decides what we will defend, neither a simple vote. More than all, I've an affective bound to it. I've been a member since I'm 15, and the PS is the historic left party

Well I guess due to cultural differences I will never be able to understand your choices lol

[augbell]

Btw the election is held in one week

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm impressed by your loyalty, Augbell. I would have considered myself a PS sympathizer until very recently, but the way in which they betrayed Hamon during the campaign was the last straw. If I joined any political grouping I'd probably join M1717 (or whatever it's called now) but I doubt it will go anywhere.