Trump: Orrin Hatch told me I am a better president than Lincoln & Washington

[Cold War Liberal]

Hatch is a very stable genius too!

[OSR stands with Israel]

My picks of political leaders for the last 500 years by likelihood of lasting influence

1. George Washington
2. Sir Winston Churchill
3. Mohandas Gandhi
4. Meiji
5. Charles deGaulle
6. Mao Zedong
7. Otto von Bismarck
8. Napoleon Bonaparte
9. Peter the Great
10. Simon Bolivar

I hate Mao. I wish that I could instead put Sun Yat-Sen in the list.

Lincoln and FDR were more influential than Churchill

It is fine to admire them more. But Lincoln did not found America, and Churchill made sure that Hitler stayed off the list.

I do not admire Mao Zedong (body count).

I would argue America had a lot more to do with defeating the Germans in WW2 than the UK did. Nazi Germany was defeated by America in Western Europe and the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe.


Lincoln won the civil war and ended slavery. Keeping the country united set the stage for the industrial revolution in the late 1800s.

[America Needs R'hllor]

My picks of political leaders for the last 500 years by likelihood of lasting influence

1. George Washington
2. Sir Winston Churchill
3. Mohandas Gandhi
4. Meiji
5. Charles deGaulle
6. Mao Zedong
7. Otto von Bismarck
8. Napoleon Bonaparte
9. Peter the Great
10. Simon Bolivar

I hate Mao. I wish that I could instead put Sun Yat-Sen in the list.

Lincoln and FDR were more influential than Churchill

It is fine to admire them more. But Lincoln did not found America, and Churchill made sure that Hitler stayed off the list.

I do not admire Mao Zedong (body count).

I would argue America had a lot more to do with defeating the Germans in WW2 than the UK did. Nazi Germany was defeated by America in Western Europe and the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe.

With their selfish isolationism, Americans let the world go without a proper superpower after WW1, thus allowing chaos in Europe and unlocking one of the safeguards that was supposed to stop another war. And then in WW2 as well they took their sweet, sweet time joining and had to actually be attacked to join. Without the UK, Germany would've quickly won WW2, at least in Europe, and our world today would be very different.
But yeah, sure, America is the best nation ever and we should all bow and thank it because it was finally forced to move a finger and help stop a murderous regime trying to dominate an entire continent.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Is there a secret collusion between Trump and Romney to sink Hatch and allow the latter to replace him?

[OSR stands with Israel]

My picks of political leaders for the last 500 years by likelihood of lasting influence

1. George Washington
2. Sir Winston Churchill
3. Mohandas Gandhi
4. Meiji
5. Charles deGaulle
6. Mao Zedong
7. Otto von Bismarck
8. Napoleon Bonaparte
9. Peter the Great
10. Simon Bolivar

I hate Mao. I wish that I could instead put Sun Yat-Sen in the list.

Lincoln and FDR were more influential than Churchill

It is fine to admire them more. But Lincoln did not found America, and Churchill made sure that Hitler stayed off the list.

I do not admire Mao Zedong (body count).

I would argue America had a lot more to do with defeating the Germans in WW2 than the UK did. Nazi Germany was defeated by America in Western Europe and the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe.

With their selfish isolationism, Americans let the world go without a proper superpower after WW1, thus allowing chaos in Europe and unlocking one of the safeguards that was supposed to stop another war. And then in WW2 as well they took their sweet, sweet time joining and had to actually be attacked to join. Without the UK, Germany would've quickly won WW2, at least in Europe, and our world today would be very different.
But yeah, sure, America is the best nation ever and we should all bow and thank it because it was finally forced to move a finger and help stop a murderous regime trying to dominate an entire continent.

Yes American isolationism in the post WW1 period was bad and they should have joined the League of Nations , but the fact is the UK and France could have stopped the Germans in 1936 when the Germans remilitarized the Rhineland and did not because of isolationist sentiments in their own countries as well.


Should America have Joined the League of Nations - Yes
Should America have gotten involved in WW2 earlier Yes

But the fact is the UK and France also could have stopped Germany in 1936 but instead decided to pursue the policy of appeasement. Also they handled the end of WW1 really badly with the Treaty of Versailles .



If I had to rank the countries most responsible for defeating the Germans it would be this :


1. Russia
2. USA
3. UK

[America Needs R'hllor]

My picks of political leaders for the last 500 years by likelihood of lasting influence

1. George Washington
2. Sir Winston Churchill
3. Mohandas Gandhi
4. Meiji
5. Charles deGaulle
6. Mao Zedong
7. Otto von Bismarck
8. Napoleon Bonaparte
9. Peter the Great
10. Simon Bolivar

I hate Mao. I wish that I could instead put Sun Yat-Sen in the list.

Lincoln and FDR were more influential than Churchill

It is fine to admire them more. But Lincoln did not found America, and Churchill made sure that Hitler stayed off the list.

I do not admire Mao Zedong (body count).

I would argue America had a lot more to do with defeating the Germans in WW2 than the UK did. Nazi Germany was defeated by America in Western Europe and the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe.

With their selfish isolationism, Americans let the world go without a proper superpower after WW1, thus allowing chaos in Europe and unlocking one of the safeguards that was supposed to stop another war. And then in WW2 as well they took their sweet, sweet time joining and had to actually be attacked to join. Without the UK, Germany would've quickly won WW2, at least in Europe, and our world today would be very different.
But yeah, sure, America is the best nation ever and we should all bow and thank it because it was finally forced to move a finger and help stop a murderous regime trying to dominate an entire continent.

Yes American isolationism in the post WW1 period was bad and they should have joined the League of Nations , but the fact is the UK and France could have stopped the Germans in 1936 when the Germans remilitarized the Rhineland and did not because of isolationist sentiments in their own countries as well.


Should America have Joined the League of Nations - Yes
Should America have gotten involved in WW2 earlier Yes

But the fact is the UK and France also could have stopped Germany in 1936 but instead decided to pursue the policy of appeasement. Also they handled the end of WW1 really badly with the Treaty of Versailles .



If I had to rank the countries most responsible for defeating the Germans it would be this :


1. Russia
2. USA
3. UK

Yes, the French and the British acted terribly as well. Generally, the world between WW1 and WW2 was a hot mess. I don't believe in ranking these things, but imo, it's clear that the Soviets and the British were the ones who held the Nazi monster at bay. The Americans were helpful at delivering the final blows and turning the tide, yes, but I don't think it's fair to say that FDR was more influential than Churchill because of WW2- in this front, they were both important, and I'd say that Churchill was even more so because FDR did not handle the war in some exceptional way that, say, Dewey or Truman couldn't handle it. I do agree that FDR was overall more influential, but it's not just WW2- it's the New Deal, his handling of the Depression and, yes, nukes.

[HAnnA MArin County]

..wait, I thought that saying anyone other than St. Ronald Reagan was the greatest president was like a cardinal sin for being a Republican. I guess this really is the Trump Party now. Sad!

[Karpatsky]

My picks of political leaders for the last 500 years by likelihood of lasting influence

1. George Washington
2. Sir Winston Churchill
3. Mohandas Gandhi
4. Meiji
5. Charles deGaulle
6. Mao Zedong
7. Otto von Bismarck
8. Napoleon Bonaparte
9. Peter the Great
10. Simon Bolivar

I hate Mao. I wish that I could instead put Sun Yat-Sen in the list.

Lincoln and FDR were more influential than Churchill

It is fine to admire them more. But Lincoln did not found America, and Churchill made sure that Hitler stayed off the list.

I do not admire Mao Zedong (body count).

I would argue America had a lot more to do with defeating the Germans in WW2 than the UK did. Nazi Germany was defeated by America in Western Europe and the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe.

With their selfish isolationism, Americans let the world go without a proper superpower after WW1, thus allowing chaos in Europe and unlocking one of the safeguards that was supposed to stop another war. And then in WW2 as well they took their sweet, sweet time joining and had to actually be attacked to join. Without the UK, Germany would've quickly won WW2, at least in Europe, and our world today would be very different.
But yeah, sure, America is the best nation ever and we should all bow and thank it because it was finally forced to move a finger and help stop a murderous regime trying to dominate an entire continent.

Yes American isolationism in the post WW1 period was bad and they should have joined the League of Nations , but the fact is the UK and France could have stopped the Germans in 1936 when the Germans remilitarized the Rhineland and did not because of isolationist sentiments in their own countries as well.


Should America have Joined the League of Nations - Yes
Should America have gotten involved in WW2 earlier Yes

But the fact is the UK and France also could have stopped Germany in 1936 but instead decided to pursue the policy of appeasement. Also they handled the end of WW1 really badly with the Treaty of Versailles .



If I had to rank the countries most responsible for defeating the Germans it would be this :


1. Russia
2. USA
3. UK

Yes, the French and the British acted terribly as well. Generally, the world between WW1 and WW2 was a hot mess. I don't believe in ranking these things, but imo, it's clear that the Soviets and the British were the ones who held the Nazi monster at bay. The Americans were helpful at delivering the final blows and turning the tide, yes, but I don't think it's fair to say that FDR was more influential than Churchill because of WW2- in this front, they were both important, and I'd say that Churchill was even more so because FDR did not handle the war in some exceptional way that, say, Dewey or Truman couldn't handle it. I do agree that FDR was overall more influential, but it's not just WW2- it's the New Deal, his handling of the Depression and, yes, nukes.

The British were ultimately inconsequential in the war, and if that's the reason to put Churchill on the list, Stalin deserves the slot instead. Without Churchill, you get Communism to the Atlantic, which would likely collapse by the '90s anyways. Without Stalin (or a similar ruler, which I suppose is silly to get into) you have Naziism to the Urals and beyond, with a completely different and much worse 20th century.

[BlueSwan]

Wow, these lists are terrible.

[AndyHogan14]

My picks of political leaders for the last 500 years by likelihood of lasting influence

1. George Washington
2. Sir Winston Churchill
3. Mohandas Gandhi
4. Meiji
5. Charles deGaulle
6. Mao Zedong
7. Otto von Bismarck
8. Napoleon Bonaparte
9. Peter the Great
10. Simon Bolivar

I hate Mao. I wish that I could instead put Sun Yat-Sen in the list.

Lincoln and FDR were more influential than Churchill

It is fine to admire them more. But Lincoln did not found America, and Churchill made sure that Hitler stayed off the list.

I do not admire Mao Zedong (body count).

I would argue America had a lot more to do with defeating the Germans in WW2 than the UK did. Nazi Germany was defeated by America in Western Europe and the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe.

With their selfish isolationism, Americans let the world go without a proper superpower after WW1, thus allowing chaos in Europe and unlocking one of the safeguards that was supposed to stop another war. And then in WW2 as well they took their sweet, sweet time joining and had to actually be attacked to join. Without the UK, Germany would've quickly won WW2, at least in Europe, and our world today would be very different.
But yeah, sure, America is the best nation ever and we should all bow and thank it because it was finally forced to move a finger and help stop a murderous regime trying to dominate an entire continent.

Yes American isolationism in the post WW1 period was bad and they should have joined the League of Nations , but the fact is the UK and France could have stopped the Germans in 1936 when the Germans remilitarized the Rhineland and did not because of isolationist sentiments in their own countries as well.


Should America have Joined the League of Nations - Yes
Should America have gotten involved in WW2 earlier Yes

But the fact is the UK and France also could have stopped Germany in 1936 but instead decided to pursue the policy of appeasement. Also they handled the end of WW1 really badly with the Treaty of Versailles .



If I had to rank the countries most responsible for defeating the Germans it would be this :


1. Russia
2. USA
3. UK

Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact

While the USSR was instrumental to the ultimate defeat of Nazi Germany, they are partially to blame for the war starting. In terms of the ultimate defeat of Germany, I would say the "big three" were pretty damn equal.

The UK (and France) should not have appeased the Nazis in the 1930s, but it was the UK standing alone for quite some time that kept Germany from claiming a complete victory in Europe. Without the UK, the Germans could have completely focused there energy on the USSR in the east and victory for them would have been much more likely. Without the USSR, it would have been extremely difficult because the Nazis would have focused all of their forces in the west making the lives of British and American soldiers extremely difficult—a negotiated settlement may have been necessary. Without the US, I think the UK and USSR could have still won with conventional forces (but it would have taken much longer), but Germany may have developed an atomic bomb with that extra time allowing them to win the war.

Long story short, without any of the "big three," at worst, Nazi Germany would have won the war and at best, it would have taken a hell of a lot longer with many, many more casualties.

[Karpatsky]

My picks of political leaders for the last 500 years by likelihood of lasting influence

1. George Washington
2. Sir Winston Churchill
3. Mohandas Gandhi
4. Meiji
5. Charles deGaulle
6. Mao Zedong
7. Otto von Bismarck
8. Napoleon Bonaparte
9. Peter the Great
10. Simon Bolivar

I hate Mao. I wish that I could instead put Sun Yat-Sen in the list.

Lincoln and FDR were more influential than Churchill

It is fine to admire them more. But Lincoln did not found America, and Churchill made sure that Hitler stayed off the list.

I do not admire Mao Zedong (body count).

I would argue America had a lot more to do with defeating the Germans in WW2 than the UK did. Nazi Germany was defeated by America in Western Europe and the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe.

With their selfish isolationism, Americans let the world go without a proper superpower after WW1, thus allowing chaos in Europe and unlocking one of the safeguards that was supposed to stop another war. And then in WW2 as well they took their sweet, sweet time joining and had to actually be attacked to join. Without the UK, Germany would've quickly won WW2, at least in Europe, and our world today would be very different.
But yeah, sure, America is the best nation ever and we should all bow and thank it because it was finally forced to move a finger and help stop a murderous regime trying to dominate an entire continent.

Yes American isolationism in the post WW1 period was bad and they should have joined the League of Nations , but the fact is the UK and France could have stopped the Germans in 1936 when the Germans remilitarized the Rhineland and did not because of isolationist sentiments in their own countries as well.


Should America have Joined the League of Nations - Yes
Should America have gotten involved in WW2 earlier Yes

But the fact is the UK and France also could have stopped Germany in 1936 but instead decided to pursue the policy of appeasement. Also they handled the end of WW1 really badly with the Treaty of Versailles .



If I had to rank the countries most responsible for defeating the Germans it would be this :


1. Russia
2. USA
3. UK

Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact

While the USSR was instrumental to the ultimate defeat of Nazi Germany, they are partially to blame for the war starting. In terms of the ultimate defeat of Germany, I would say the "big three" were pretty damn equal.

The UK (and France) should not have appeased the Nazis in the 1930s, but it was the UK standing alone for quite some time that kept Germany from claiming a complete victory in Europe. Without the UK, the Germans could have completely focused there energy on the USSR in the east and victory for them would have been much more likely. Without the USSR, it would have been extremely difficult because the Nazis would have focused all of their forces in the west making the lives of British and American soldiers extremely difficult—a negotiated settlement may have been necessary. Without the US, I think the UK and USSR could have still won with conventional forces (but it would have taken much longer), but Germany may have developed an atomic bomb with that extra time allowing them to win the war.

Long story short, without any of the "big three," at worst, Nazi Germany would have won the war and at best, it would have taken a hell of a lot longer with many, many more casualties.

The UK's effect on reducing the scale of the German assault on the USSR is minimal. Much more significant is the wars in Yugoslavia and Greece preventing the Germans from attacking earlier in the spring of 1940.

The true significance of the UK is preventing the Axis from gaining control of the Middle Eastern oil fields and acting as a launching point for the Western invasion of Europe. But this does not place them close to the tier of the USSR.

USSR


US






UK


(all other allies)

[Badger]

Lolololol... time to retire for Hatch. Trump will go down as worst president since the mid-19th century.

Hoover is still considerably worse

Horrible, I concur. However, I fear that Trump will be even worse.