School Choice for the Southeast

[Bono]

Good day.
My next big project as Governor this term will be a school system reform. There are a little less than 17 million school age children in this region. Our current educatin expenses are close to $85 billion a year. Now if we redirect the current spending to assign a voucher of $5,000 per child, we could keep more or less the same level of spending.
This is still on a very early stage, and I'd apreciate all southeasterners' contributions.

[Bono]

If someone (*cough* *cough* GM *cough*)  had the distribution of children by income levels I would apreciate it.

[Sam Spade]

If someone (*cough* *cough* GM *cough*)  had the distribution of children by income levels I would apreciate it.

This would take a little research, but I'll do it.

[Bono]

If someone (*cough* *cough* GM *cough*)  had the distribution of children by income levels I would apreciate it.

This would take a little research, but I'll do it.

thank you.

[Bono]

It's nice to see Southeasterners so interested in the affairs of their region.

[Platypus]

Bono, did you ever think that the countries in your sig with flat taxes are all basically sh**tholes? Excluding the Baltic Countries, anyway.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Not a citizen of the Southeast and as such I'm not going to praise or complain about the proposal (and this I all I'm going to say on it) but I think I should point out (before certain people do) that a lot of private schools in parts of the Deep South were set up around the time of the desegregation of public schools in those areas.
Whether that's an arguement for or against the proposals isn't my business, o/c.

[Bono]

Bono, did you ever think that the countries in your sig with flat taxes are all basically sh**tholes? Excluding the Baltic Countries, anyway.

For now. When the flat tax takes effect, they will rule supreme.
MUHAHAHAHA!

Anyways, this is a long term project to show the progress of the flat tax. I will add countries as they adopt it. Greece will probably be the next, as the PM already announced that a 25% flat tax would be established soon.

(if it weren't for Russia, that map would look a lot worse. )

Oh and BTW, Hong Kong also has a flat tax, but it's not there becuase it's not realy a country.

[Platypus]

actually, the average quality would probably be dragged up if russia wasn't included. Plus they don't pay taxes there anyway; certainly not the rich.

[Q]

I support school vouchers.  They are especially useful for low-income families to be able to leave failing public schools.  Furthermore, perhaps increased competition with private schools will force the public education system to improve.

Will $5000 per child per year be sufficient?  How exactly will the money be reapportioned?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

actually, the average quality would probably be dragged up if russia wasn't included.

Funny that all the basket cases that have adopted it so far as ex-Commie countries

[Bono]

I support school vouchers.  They are especially useful for low-income families to be able to leave failing public schools.  Furthermore, perhaps increased competition with private schools will force the public education system to improve.

Will $5000 per child per year be sufficient?  How exactly will the money be reapportioned?

Actually, acording to this study it would be more than enough and we could reduce it to about $3,000 for grades 1-8.

[jokerman]

Will this be an optional change, or a across the board privitization of the school system?

Either way, I'm convinced that this will only cause prices to attend private schools to shoot up because of a manifold increase in demand, thus forcing more money out of the funds for public schools and destroying them alltogether.

[Q]

Will this be an optional change, or a across the board privitization of the school system?

As I read it, an optional change.

Either way, I'm convinced that this will only cause prices to attend private schools to shoot up because of a manifold increase in demand

That is a valid concern.  Look at how average college tuitions have increased exponentially over the past few decades.

[Q]

Actually, acording to this study it would be more than enough and we could reduce it to about $3,000 for grades 1-8.

But if a the average private school tuition is $3,611 (as Cato claims it was in 1993-94), and probably a lot more now, how can a low-income family afford the extra $611?

And would the vouchers stop at high school?

[Bono]

Will this be an optional change, or a across the board privitization of the school system?

Either way, I'm convinced that this will only cause prices to attend private schools to shoot up because of a manifold increase in demand, thus forcing more money out of the funds for public schools and destroying them alltogether.

I won't privatize public schools, since that's not under my powers. Each school district would decide what to do: continue running solely on property taxes, accept voucher money, or simply sell or end the school(s). They wil, of course, stop recieving regional funding.

[jokerman]

Actually, acording to this study it would be more than enough and we could reduce it to about $3,000 for grades 1-8.

But if a the average private school tuition is $3,611 (as Cato claims it was in 1993-94), and probably a lot more now, how can a low-income family afford the extra $611?

And would the vouchers stop at high school?

And see the thing is the real problem of our school system isn't 1-8, but our secondary education system.  Test scores are on par with the rest of the world for the younger kids and then tank compared to the rest as they get older.

[Bono]

Actually, acording to this study it would be more than enough and we could reduce it to about $3,000 for grades 1-8.

But if a the average private school tuition is $3,611 (as Cato claims it was in 1993-94), and probably a lot more now, how can a low-income family afford the extra $611?

And would the vouchers stop at high school?

a) for crying out loud they can get 12 lousy dollars a week!
Ok, now that the outburts has passed, that's why i asked the GM for the distribution of children by levels of income. That way, we can give smaller ammounts of money to those who have more means to pay tuition, and bigger amounts of money to those who don't.
b) No, on high school we give more money for each voucher, duh.

c) I could use some help from the feds in creating some private education tax deductions.

[WiseGuy]

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, been on vacation at the Magic Kingdom and didn't think anyone would need me now that I'm no longer Governor.

An Initiative already passed that would (pretty much) do the same thing.  Link.  Which reminds me, did I give the password info for the Southeast regional website to you?

[Bono]

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, been on vacation at the Magic Kingdom and didn't think anyone would need me now that I'm no longer Governor.

An Initiative already passed that would (pretty much) do the same thing.  Link.  Which reminds me, did I give the password info for the Southeast regional website to you?

Hm, this hasn't mch to do with school vouchers...
And no, you didn't.

[WiseGuy]

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, been on vacation at the Magic Kingdom and didn't think anyone would need me now that I'm no longer Governor.

An Initiative already passed that would (pretty much) do the same thing.  Link.  Which reminds me, did I give the password info for the Southeast regional website to you?

Hm, this hasn't mch to do with school vouchers...
And no, you didn't.

Yes, but it has to do with school choice.  I'll send the passwords via PM.

[Alcon]

Yes, Bono, some people can't afford $12 a week per kid.  That's $60 a week if you have five kids times 27 weeks of school equals $1,560 per year, much more than a low income family with five kids can afford.

And that's assuming that an average-or-below priced private school is available in the area.  That's not always true; sometimes prices are much higher.

[7,052,770]

considering how I hate school vouchers passionately, I will fight any measure creating them tooth and nail.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

What the proponents of school coice so often convieniently forget is that one reason (not the only, far from the only reason) that public school education is more expensive than private school education is that private schools can be choosy about who they take.  If a child has special needs due to mental retardation or physical disability, the cost is much higher than for an ordinary child.  You also will note that primary education is far less expensive to provide than secondary education.  as shown in  the studies you yourself have provided.  That cost differential is a contibuting factor to the fact that is far likelier for a fid to start in private school and then transfering to public school once they are older than the other way round.

In short, I can't say I like your proposal at all. It would cause all of the kids who can be educated at a low cost to be siphoned off into private education while leaving public schools with the expensive kids and causing more people who only take the time to glance at the data to wonder why the public schools cost so much.  Im not opposed to voucher plans in principle, but they need to address the reality that not all kids cost the same to educate, which yours at the moment does not.

[Bono]

What the proponents of school coice so often convieniently forget is that one reason (not the only, far from the only reason) that public school education is more expensive than private school education is that private schools can be choosy about who they take.  If a child has special needs due to mental retardation or physical disability, the cost is much higher than for an ordinary child.  You also will note that primary education is far less expensive to provide than secondary education.  as shown in  the studies you yourself have provided.  That cost differential is a contibuting factor to the fact that is far likelier for a fid to start in private school and then transfering to public school once they are older than the other way round.

In short, I can't say I like your proposal at all. It would cause all of the kids who can be educated at a low cost to be siphoned off into private education while leaving public schools with the expensive kids and causing more people who only take the time to glance at the data to wonder why the public schools cost so much.  Im not opposed to voucher plans in principle, but they need to address the reality that not all kids cost the same to educate, which yours at the moment does not.

I don't have a full plan yet, and I already asked for some data from the GM, which I'm still waiting for. I also mentioned in this thread that for children in later ages, the voucher amound would probably be increased.