Does religion tend to make people better or worse?

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

As a gay in a predominantly Christian nation, religion made me much worse.  That's why I quit.  If God is real, then he doesn't need to communicate with you by writing in a book and giving it to a teensy tiny minority of people on earth.

I also get very uncomfortable with the Christian obsession with Christ's death.  You aren't learning from his lessons or his sermons.. you are worshiping his death. 

I get that salvation was dependent on his death... and most just focus on salvation... but I've seen way too much hand wringing about the nails and the cross and the suffering...

You know what Jesus would say while you're crying over his crucifixion?  There are people suffering right here and yet you ignore it.  I do not know you!

What about non-homophopic churches?

[augbell]

As a gay in a predominantly Christian nation, religion made me much worse.  That's why I quit.  If God is real, then he doesn't need to communicate with you by writing in a book and giving it to a teensy tiny minority of people on earth.

I also get very uncomfortable with the Christian obsession with Christ's death.  You aren't learning from his lessons or his sermons.. you are worshiping his death. 

I get that salvation was dependent on his death... and most just focus on salvation... but I've seen way too much hand wringing about the nails and the cross and the suffering...

You know what Jesus would say while you're crying over his crucifixion?  There are people suffering right here and yet you ignore it.  I do not know you!

What about non-homophopic churches?

What about unicorns ?
Just kidding. But you know, since it's written in the Bible that homosexuality is an abomination, I think it's difficult to have a non-homophobic church. They can respect homosexuals, they might not want to burn them, they often consider them as abnormal, or a negative thing they tolerate. I studied in a catholic school, medium school and high school, and now in a catholic college; they're not the worst homophobic people on earth, they show tolerance, but you feel that they're worried by it

[Dr. MB]

As a gay in a predominantly Christian nation, religion made me much worse.  That's why I quit.  If God is real, then he doesn't need to communicate with you by writing in a book and giving it to a teensy tiny minority of people on earth.

I also get very uncomfortable with the Christian obsession with Christ's death.  You aren't learning from his lessons or his sermons.. you are worshiping his death. 

I get that salvation was dependent on his death... and most just focus on salvation... but I've seen way too much hand wringing about the nails and the cross and the suffering...

You know what Jesus would say while you're crying over his crucifixion?  There are people suffering right here and yet you ignore it.  I do not know you!

What about non-homophopic churches?

What about unicorns ?
Just kidding. But you know, since it's written in the Bible that homosexuality is an abomination, I think it's difficult to have a non-homophobic church. They can respect homosexuals, they might not want to burn them, they often consider them as abnormal, or a negative thing they tolerate. I studied in a catholic school, medium school and high school, and now in a catholic college; they're not the worst homophobic people on earth, they show tolerance, but you feel that they're worried by it

It’s different with some mainline Protestant churches, there are some in my area that hang the rainbow flag outside the church.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

God makes people better; religion makes people worse.

It keeps people from becoming tankies or Randians.

This is also an important point.  I am not impressed with the state of Christianity in America today, for the most part, but I sincerely believe that if every person turned their back on God (and no, not just the 'Christian God') then this world would quickly be headed for a very, very dark place.

[Sir Mohamed]

That question can't be answered with a general yes or no. It makes some people better who get teached to be trustworthy, show empathy or learn discipline, though religion is not necessary to learn these attitudes. Religion always makes people worse if extremism comes into play. The same is true with political ideology or a combination of both. Most famously Islamic fundamentalism, or to a lesser worldwide extend, Christian fundamentalism. In other cases, religion does neither. These are mostly people that are not very religious (like myself).

[Sestak]

I feel like religion in general brings up the floor of how "good" people generally are (though obviously the powerful, when able to misconstrue it, are able to use it to justify sinking lower). However, religion also holds down our ceiling, by convincing many people to oppose education and science, oppress groups such as gays, and ignore issues such as climate change because they believe they will be saved by divine intervention.

It is a fact that religion was initially intended to make people better; the people who crafted modern major religions were smart and understood human nature. They created sets of rules which were well suited to the times and encapsulated them in tales and legends in a way that ensured they would be followed. Being human, however, they were not able to see infinitely far in the future and thus left several unintended consequences in their religions, which, by their design, were generally not that adaptable, sacrificing long-term flexibility for short-term success.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Anywho, at least in Christianity (I can't speak for Judaism or Islam but as fellow Abrahamic religions I suspect  that they're similar here), humanity is inherently Fallen, estranged from God and living in a fallen world as Sinners, and so "becoming a better person" is a fool's errand. You'll never be "better." Doesn't work like that.

Accepting the God of Abraham as your Lord and following Him and His Commandments is what matters - indeed, is all that matters. Of course Christianity has a unique view of what means in terms of the figure of Jesus Christ and what Christians believe in terms of  His birth, life, teachings, miracles, death, and resurrection (FWIW, Jesus is also a major figure/prophet in Islam - in fact, I think he's mentioned in the Qu'ran more times than Mohammed, but I might be wrong there -  but is not a divine figure), but these are among the most basic things about Abrahamic religion, I think.

[°Leprechaun]

People have the power to make themselves better or worse. Does a toxic religion cause a person to be toxic or do they join a toxic religion because they are already toxic?

[BenBurch]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

Do you really believe that slave owners would have freed their slaves if they became atheists?  They used religion as a justification.

Religion was one of the reasons for ending slavery.

[BenBurch]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

But which is really more common? Religions are mostly about being a better person, but since many people became worse because of religion, what should be the exception and what should be the rule?

Christianity was the driving factor for the end of slavery and eventually Civil Rights, and even with accepting homosexuality to a certain extent.  We were able to see that what we were doing was evil, and that let us change what was going on.  My grandma mentioned to me about the Civil Rights era, that segregation was a sin, that what was going on down South was evil, and that was a fairly common opinion in her highly-religious community. 

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

Do you really believe that slave owners would have freed their slaves if they became atheists?  They used religion as a justification.

Religion was one of the reasons for ending slavery.

It was also one of the reasons for preserving slavery.

"Down with the eagle, up with the cross."- Battle Cry of Freedom (Confederate version)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It keeps people from becoming tankies or Randians.

one could argue that Stalinism (and Maoism etc) and Objectivism are religions in themselves.

'Bogus imitations' would be nearer the mark.

[BenBurch]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

Do you really believe that slave owners would have freed their slaves if they became atheists?  They used religion as a justification.

Religion was one of the reasons for ending slavery.

It was also one of the reasons for preserving slavery.

"Down with the eagle, up with the cross."- Battle Cry of Freedom (Confederate version)

More Christians opposed slavery than supported it.  That's a fact.  Besides, atheism is a big aspect in white-supremacist movements.  In Madison Grant's Passing of the Great Race, for example, Christianity is attacked as being weak.  Hitler called the book his Bible, and Nazi Germany was opposed to Christianity, as Christians worshiped God and not the State.  Mussolini was an atheist.   

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

Do you really believe that slave owners would have freed their slaves if they became atheists?  They used religion as a justification.

Religion was one of the reasons for ending slavery.

It was also one of the reasons for preserving slavery.

"Down with the eagle, up with the cross."- Battle Cry of Freedom (Confederate version)

Hitler called the book his Bible, and Nazi Germany was opposed to Christianity, as Christians worshiped God and not the State. 

Atheists were targeted in the Holocaust.

[BenBurch]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

Do you really believe that slave owners would have freed their slaves if they became atheists?  They used religion as a justification.

Religion was one of the reasons for ending slavery.

It was also one of the reasons for preserving slavery.

"Down with the eagle, up with the cross."- Battle Cry of Freedom (Confederate version)

Hitler called the book his Bible, and Nazi Germany was opposed to Christianity, as Christians worshiped God and not the State. 

Atheists were targeted in the Holocaust.

So were tons of other people, including Christians and most notably Jews.  What's your point?

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

Do you really believe that slave owners would have freed their slaves if they became atheists?  They used religion as a justification.

Religion was one of the reasons for ending slavery.

It was also one of the reasons for preserving slavery.

"Down with the eagle, up with the cross."- Battle Cry of Freedom (Confederate version)

Hitler called the book his Bible, and Nazi Germany was opposed to Christianity, as Christians worshiped God and not the State. 

Atheists were targeted in the Holocaust.

So were tons of other people, including Christians and most notably Jews.  What's your point?

They never sent people to the camps for being Christian. They sent any atheist they could find to the camps. Stop being disingenuous, you know very well what point I was making.

[BenBurch]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

Do you really believe that slave owners would have freed their slaves if they became atheists?  They used religion as a justification.

Religion was one of the reasons for ending slavery.

It was also one of the reasons for preserving slavery.

"Down with the eagle, up with the cross."- Battle Cry of Freedom (Confederate version)

Hitler called the book his Bible, and Nazi Germany was opposed to Christianity, as Christians worshiped God and not the State.  

Atheists were targeted in the Holocaust.

So were tons of other people, including Christians and most notably Jews.  What's your point?

They never sent people to the camps for being Christian. They sent any atheist they could find to the camps. Stop being disingenuous, you know very well what point I was making.

Goebbels, Bormann and others were atheists, and Himmler was a pagan. To be fair, in this instance, Hitler was fairly hazy on this issue.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

Do you really believe that slave owners would have freed their slaves if they became atheists?  They used religion as a justification.

Religion was one of the reasons for ending slavery.

It was also one of the reasons for preserving slavery.

"Down with the eagle, up with the cross."- Battle Cry of Freedom (Confederate version)

Hitler called the book his Bible, and Nazi Germany was opposed to Christianity, as Christians worshiped God and not the State.  

Atheists were targeted in the Holocaust.

So were tons of other people, including Christians and most notably Jews.  What's your point?

They never sent people to the camps for being Christian. They sent any atheist they could find to the camps. Stop being disingenuous, you know very well what point I was making.

Goebbels, Bormann and others were atheists, and Himmler was a pagan. To be fair, in this instance, Hitler was fairly hazy on this issue.

Riighhht. The people who sent people to be murdered for being atheists aren't f##king atheists.

[Aboa]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

Do you really believe that slave owners would have freed their slaves if they became atheists?  They used religion as a justification.

Religion was one of the reasons for ending slavery.

It was also one of the reasons for preserving slavery.

"Down with the eagle, up with the cross."- Battle Cry of Freedom (Confederate version)

Hitler called the book his Bible, and Nazi Germany was opposed to Christianity, as Christians worshiped God and not the State. 

Atheists were targeted in the Holocaust.

So were tons of other people, including Christians and most notably Jews.  What's your point?

They never sent people to the camps for being Christian. They sent any atheist they could find to the camps. Stop being disingenuous, you know very well what point I was making.

I would like to know more of this, how many people were exactly sent to death camps because their Atheism?

[BenBurch]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

Do you really believe that slave owners would have freed their slaves if they became atheists?  They used religion as a justification.

Religion was one of the reasons for ending slavery.

It was also one of the reasons for preserving slavery.

"Down with the eagle, up with the cross."- Battle Cry of Freedom (Confederate version)

Hitler called the book his Bible, and Nazi Germany was opposed to Christianity, as Christians worshiped God and not the State.  

Atheists were targeted in the Holocaust.

So were tons of other people, including Christians and most notably Jews.  What's your point?

They never sent people to the camps for being Christian. They sent any atheist they could find to the camps. Stop being disingenuous, you know very well what point I was making.

I would like to know more of this, how many people were exactly sent to death camps because their Atheism?

Hitler, according to Goebbels and Bormann, expressed disgust at Christianity, and was an atheist, at least in private.  He admitted that he lied about being a Christian to get elected, so I doubt that atheists were sent to death camps just because they were atheists.  I think Scarlet is factually wrong.  As a matter of fact, the churches were the ones being oppressed.  (It was called the Kirchenkampf.)  This is widely acknowledged by historians, unlike what Scarlet is saying.  He's going to get the great ignore!  

[BenBurch]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

Do you really believe that slave owners would have freed their slaves if they became atheists?  They used religion as a justification.

Religion was one of the reasons for ending slavery.

It was also one of the reasons for preserving slavery.

"Down with the eagle, up with the cross."- Battle Cry of Freedom (Confederate version)

Hitler called the book his Bible, and Nazi Germany was opposed to Christianity, as Christians worshiped God and not the State.  

Atheists were targeted in the Holocaust.

So were tons of other people, including Christians and most notably Jews.  What's your point?

They never sent people to the camps for being Christian. They sent any atheist they could find to the camps. Stop being disingenuous, you know very well what point I was making.

Goebbels, Bormann and others were atheists, and Himmler was a pagan. To be fair, in this instance, Hitler was fairly hazy on this issue.

Riighhht. The people who sent people to be murdered for being atheists aren't f##king atheists.

I'm sure Bush caused 9/11 as well.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

It is often assumed that religion is supposed to make someone a better person, but there are people who have became worse because of religion, from the slave owners of the 19th Century to Mel Gibson.

Do you really believe that slave owners would have freed their slaves if they became atheists?  They used religion as a justification.

Religion was one of the reasons for ending slavery.

It was also one of the reasons for preserving slavery.

"Down with the eagle, up with the cross."- Battle Cry of Freedom (Confederate version)

Hitler called the book his Bible, and Nazi Germany was opposed to Christianity, as Christians worshiped God and not the State.  

Atheists were targeted in the Holocaust.

So were tons of other people, including Christians and most notably Jews.  What's your point?

They never sent people to the camps for being Christian. They sent any atheist they could find to the camps. Stop being disingenuous, you know very well what point I was making.

Goebbels, Bormann and others were atheists, and Himmler was a pagan. To be fair, in this instance, Hitler was fairly hazy on this issue.

Riighhht. The people who sent people to be murdered for being atheists aren't f##king atheists.

I'm sure Bush caused 9/11 as well.

Wat?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Atheists were targeted in the Holocaust.

Not true.

[MasterJedi]

Depends if they actually follow the teachings, or if they're most of the people in power positions who spout being religious who are just using it for the power and prestige and free votes from the hardcore.

[BenBurch]

Atheists were targeted in the Holocaust.

Not true.