Pacific Legislature Official Thread

[bgwah]

New Mexico Regional Transfer Resolution: Fails 0-8

Constitutional Amendment on Voter Registration and Voting Rules : Passes 8-0

Backup Redistricting Amendment: Passes 8-0

The Pacific has passed both constitutional methods. *SIGNS* (if I have to sign)

[WMS]

OOC: Ah, I had forgotten the politeness, courtesy, and mutual respect of your debating style in the Forum, Ebowed. Oh wait, I can't forget what isn't there...

{via teleconference to the Pacific Legislature}

Abortion at any stage of the pregnancy ends the life of a living being.  Why are you only focusing on the third trimester?

Because all arguments about viability and the like are more pointed at this point - the fetus could clearly survive. Furthermore, by this point there has been plenty of time for someone to have gotten an abortion and their lack of responsibility is rather apparent by then. While I never think that abortion is a good thing, I am showing moderation in that I am not trying to ban it entirely - there is enough of a case for personal choice that I will not interfere in the first trimester, will allow rape/incest/verified health cases in the second trimester, and always allow life of the mother cases. Not that you give a sh!t about moderation.

Yes, because the law leaves the decision up to the woman.  Her choice does not need to be validated by the public as to whether it's "acceptable" or not.

And that is a radical opinion. Are you arguing that it isn't radical? Even China and India finally enacted bans on sex-selective abortions after seeing what the results of allowing them were.

You know, I don't really care.  The bill passed this legislature, and that's what matters here.

Yes, you and your JCP clique certainly get whatever they want, don't they? I have a bit more on that below...

Wait, so you think women will wait until they're seven months pregnant to get an abortion now?  Your logic sucks, and it's not even backed up by the statistics.  States with third trimester abortion bans have the same very low rate as those without.  Now, do you honestly think that women remain pregnant as long as they can?  Do you know anything about pregnancy?

If something is allowed that wasn't allowed before, then it will be used more. The statistics you cite are in an environment where there are restrictions on third trimester abortions. If there are no restrictions, do you think the rate would remain the same?  There is a point of principle about giving official sanction to things as well. And if the rate of third trimester abortion bans is so damn low, then why do you insist on keeping them legal? And I'll return the question back to you, since personal attacks seem to be your preferred form of interaction.

There are many reasons to ban the death penalty, including but not limited to moral ones.  I do not necessarily see abortion as immoral; just because you do, remember that not everyone shares the same opinion.  If you have a problem with the way this legislature voted, you are free to propose legislation to change it.

And what are the non-moral reasons to ban the death penalty? "Everyone does not necessarily share the same opinion" is a stance you should have considered before proposing radical legislation, now isn't it? And your JCP clique will vote for anything you propose...likely the reason you moved to the Pacific in the first place. The hammerlock on the Pacific Legislature is assured, and you know very well no legislation of mine changing anything will pass the bloc voting in place.

Yes, I am aware that it is within the right of a government to establish theocracy.  What exactly is your point?

Ooh, ad hominem attack, on false grounds at that. Such maturity from an Atlasian Senator. How is allowing a government to put "In God We Trust" on currency establishing a theocracy? I shall be using this as an example below. How is allowing a government to express an opinion other than Secular Humanism theocratic? How is this an establishment of religion? Note that I don't prohibit atheists from putting "In No God We Trust" on currency if they happen to be in power. Note that I also allow people of faith to put "In God We Trust" back on currency if they gain power. I, however, don't prohibit atheists from ever removing "In God We Trust" by law. Note that I don't prohibit other religious groups, if they gain power, from putting "In Vishnu We Trust" on the currency if they gain power either. Do you understand what I mean about a cacophony of voices yet?

The public sphere is open to the public and thus religion can be celebrated and displayed by anyone in public.

That would be the private sphere, on the individual level. The public sphere covers all governmental entities. Or are your definitions different? If the public sphere doesn't include government, then where are you putting the government?

A good government shouldn't need to ask for loyalty with a pre-written statement of support.  If someone truly supports their government, they can write their own "pledge."

You want the government to be able to celebrate faith, yet if the government were to celebrate outright atheism, you would consider this "intrusive secularism", despite desperate attempts to compare atheism to religion whenever possible.  Where is the consistency in this?  If you want the government to celebrate faith so much, why don't you write a bill to bring the caste system to the Pacific?

Your opinion, not fact.

No, if you bothered to pay attention the government can declare "Atheist Day" if it wants to. Or make the Festival of Lights a holiday. I don't forbid the government from doing these things, as long as it doesn't make law banning any of the other faiths (and yes, atheism is one of these) from ever doing the same thing. I related the stranglehold of the JCP already, and as for the claim that it would be a caste system - yet another personal attack I see - is that not what you are doing, making religion "lesser" than secularism/atheism by saying the one is not allowable in government but the other is?

Given the tone of the Senator I can see that this will never end until everything in the Pacific is exactly the way his JCP clique desires. And given their resistance to the desires of the citizens of New Mexico to leave their vicious Region I can see other actions will have to be taken.

Note that this is via teleconference, from Albuquerque. Per the will of the citizens of New Mexico, a doctrine of State Nullification is in effect. New Mexico reserves the right to determine for itself which Regional laws are in effect within its boundaries.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Reproductive Freedom Act is declared null and void.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Physician-Assisted Suicide Legalisation Act is declared null and void.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Alcohol Freedom Act is declared null and void.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Religious Freedom Act is declared null and void.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Resolution Concerning Currency is declared null and void.

In anticipation of the likely cessation of what revenues the Pacific Government provides to the State of New Mexico, the State of New Mexico hereby ceases the transmission of any and all taxes, fees, tariffs, and any other revenue to the Pacific Government.

And the citizens of New Mexico once again affirm our desire to join the Midwestern Region. Given that Regions are not even specified in the new Constitution under debate, the idea that New Mexico should be forced to remain in a Region under the rules of a Constitution that is about to become obsolete is ridiculous. Regional affiliation should be voluntary, not forced. The State of New Mexico is reminding the government of the Pacific of this fact.

[OOC: Ante up, pilgrims. Aces wild. Game Moderator Al, certain provisions are now in effect. ]

OOC: The Peanut Gallery can go hush now.

[OOC: Nothing personal. *hughughug* You have more material to work with now. Get to work on finding appropriate pictures! ]

[Sam Spade]

Really, you should join the Southeast Region, New Mexico.  The Midwest Region is full of cooties, ilikeverins and other intolerables.

After all, you were really part of Texas anyway to start with. 

[Alcon]

Really, you should join the Southeast Region, New Mexico.  The Midwest Region is full of cooties, ilikeverins and other intolerables.

After all, you were really part of Texas anyway to start with. 

We don't want any of the Southeastern region, because we're pretty sure Mike Naso has touched/governed it.

[Ebowed]

Because all arguments about viability and the like are more pointed at this point - the fetus could clearly survive.

Viability is a point that is always changing because of scientific advances.  It also may vary widely from pregnancy to pregnancy -- it is near impossible to directly code it into law.

And that is a radical opinion.

What exactly is your problem, WMS?  What you consider radical may be perfectly mainstream depending on the exact political beliefs of any certain location.

And if the rate of third trimester abortion bans is so damn low, then why do you insist on keeping them legal?

A desire to keep unnecessary statute out of the law code coupled with a strong scrutiny held towards any "moderate" legislation designed to infringe upon women's rights.

And what are the non-moral reasons to ban the death penalty?

Its lack of effect of a deterrent, its general lack of necessity, its prohibitive cost, the racial and socioeconomic disparity in death row inmates, the chance that an innocent person could be executed, the length of time between the crime and the execution (making possible remorse irrelevant), the arbitrary and uneven manner in which it is applied, etc.

How is allowing a government to express an opinion other than Secular Humanism theocratic?

The government will not be expressing a Secular Humanist opinion, because it will not be establishing an opinion at all.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Reproductive Freedom Act is declared null and void.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Physician-Assisted Suicide Legalisation Act is declared null and void.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Alcohol Freedom Act is declared null and void.

And replaced with what?  Third trimester abortions are still legal in New Mexico (regardless of whether anyone considers your nullifications valid or not).

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Religious Freedom Act is declared null and void.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Resolution Concerning Currency is declared null and void.

You're so weak that you have to null and void a resolution.  Cool.

Not that it matters, because of neither of those were ever passed by the Pacific Legislature.  You could write an act declaring cheddar cheese to be really great and then nullify it in New Mexico.  It would have about the same effect.

[Sam Spade]

Really, you should join the Southeast Region, New Mexico.  The Midwest Region is full of cooties, ilikeverins and other intolerables.

After all, you were really part of Texas anyway to start with. 

We don't want any of the Southeastern region, because we're pretty sure Mike Naso has touched/governed it.

That reminds me:  Next time I need to create an initiative expelling Mike Naso from our region permanently.

[Platypus]

As a citizen of New Mexico, I reaffirm our state's loyalty to the Pacific Region and our Western brethren. I do request more moderation from my counterparts, however.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

As a citizen of New Mexico, I reaffirm our state's loyalty to the Pacific Region and our Western brethren. I do request more moderation from my counterparts, however.

You registered as a New Mexico voter after the state shut it's borders (check the time on the Wireserf thread).

[Gabu]

That reminds me:  Next time I need to create an initiative expelling Mike Naso from our region permanently.

You might also want to sterilize the governor's mansion or maybe even demolish and rebuild it.  I think Mike Naso might have slept in its bed.

You registered as a New Mexico voter after the state shut it's borders (check the time on the Wireserf thread).

Well, that would make him an illegal immigrant, and given that it's New Mexico, that will make him get welcomed with open arms.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Just another note; full details on what the hell is going on will be published in an Ingsoc publication pretty soon.

[Platypus]

I meant the Mexican border. I went on holiday in Acapulco for a few days, and decided to move. No hay problemas, si?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It is actually possible that all of New Mexico's borders were closed earlier today. It's also possible that only the border with Arizona was. Ingsoc does not know the answer to this question but will do by the time the next official thread is updated.

But you'll have to wait a few hours to find out.

[Alcon]

As a citizen of New Mexico, I reaffirm our state's loyalty to the Pacific Region and our Western brethren. I do request more moderation from my counterparts, however.

You registered as a New Mexico voter after the state shut it's borders (check the time on the Wireserf thread).

Al, welcome to the wonderful world of the PAV - permanent absentee voter.

[Everett]

Keep this bullsh**t up and I won't hesitate to write an initiative expelling you from the Pacific, WMS.

[bgwah]

It is actually possible that all of New Mexico's borders were closed earlier today. It's also possible that only the border with Arizona was. Ingsoc does not know the answer to this question but will do by the time the next official thread is updated.

But you'll have to wait a few hours to find out.

Or a few days

[minionofmidas]

Keep this bullsh**t up and I won't hesitate to write an initiative expelling you from the Pacific, WMS.

Just have him take New Mexico with him, and I think everyone will be happy ever after.

[bgwah]

Keep this bullsh**t up and I won't hesitate to write an initiative expelling you from the Pacific, WMS.

Just have him take New Mexico with him, and I think everyone will be happy ever after.

Pacificans will not be happy unless Montana is returned in exchange for New Mexico.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It is actually possible that all of New Mexico's borders were closed earlier today. It's also possible that only the border with Arizona was. Ingsoc does not know the answer to this question but will do by the time the next official thread is updated.

But you'll have to wait a few hours to find out.

Or a few days

Not been well recently. Apologies. Something should be up tomorrow.

[Platypus]

****Secret message to Pacific Governor's Office****

Dear noble Governor,

Aluqerueees o e n hehadsofth Nw exca rbes.Curetl hdig n asVeas Nw exco

ve ad ut

[minionofmidas]

They lied to you. That's not Las Vegas NM outside your barred window. That's Las Vegas SB.

[bgwah]

Hi, I'd like to introduce this piece of legislation.

Resolution to resolve the conflict in the Southeastern Pacific Region
1) Whereas, a minority of New Mexicans have become militant rebels that have taken over the Pacific state of New Mexico and declared Pacific laws null and void within their borders.
2) Whereas, the New Mexican rebels have cut off all taxes and other funds from the Pacific state of New Mexico.
3) Whereas, the New Mexican rebels have illegally cut off access to the state from other parts of the Pacific.
4) Whereas, the New Mexican rebels, led by WMS, are oppressing opposition (possibly with violence) within their state.
5) Therefore, the Pacific Region recognizes the need to use whatever means necessary to return order to the state of New Mexico.
6) Therefore, the Pacific Region declares that it is in a state of war with militant rebels and will begin raising a military force to return order to the state of New Mexico and the entire Pacific Region.
7) The Pacific military shall be known as the Pacific Military Force, or PMF. The Commander-in-Chief of the PMF shall be the Governor of the Pacific.
8.) Once the conflict is resolved and the region returns to a state of peace, the PMF will be disbanded until it is once again needed.
9) The current goal of the PMF shall be to liberate the state of New Mexico from militant rebels and to bring their leader, WMS, to justice.

Thank you, citizens of the Pacific! I shall open voting on this resolution as well as other pieces of legislation that have been recently introduced tomorrow.

And, just a note to WMS, I think you need to remember that for a new constitution to become law, it must first not only be passed by the Senate (which, according to Senator Ebowed has a mediocre chance of passing at best) but also ratified by the Pacific Region. I find it highly unlikely that you will be able to secede from our region without the consent of the rest us.

In 2004 and 2005, you seemed to think the "trading" of states was a civil and fair way to have your state transfer from one region to another. But now you resort to what, pratically seceding illegally? You're fighting the wrong people, WMS. I am more than willing to negotiate the trade of New Mexico for a Midwestern state, preferably Montana. It is ilikeverin who continues to refuse to compromise.

[Sam Spade]

The Southeast makes a friendly request that you take "Southeastern" out of the title of your bill.

The Southeast Region has trademarked its usage. 

[ilikeverin]

I am more than willing to negotiate the trade of New Mexico for a Midwestern state, preferably Montana.

Aha!  You concede Montana's Midwesterness to us.  Clearly, the Midwest region should have dominance over all states that have Midwestern majorities in them, which New Mexico obviously does.  And Idaho and Utah too, because we say so.

But, I have an idea!  We shall take New Mexico.  In return, we will give you Texas.  How does that sound?

[Alcon]

Aha!  You concede Montana's Midwesterness to us.  Clearly, the Midwest region should have dominance over all states that have Midwestern majorities in them, which New Mexico obviously does.  And Idaho and Utah too, because we say so.

Uh, we concede that Montana is legally part of the Midwest since, unlike you, we actually follow the law.  We don't concede New Mexico for the same reason.

But, I have an idea!  We shall take New Mexico.  In return, we will give you Texas.  How does that sound?

no

[bgwah]

I'm opening voting on the following.  Voting closes in exactly one week. Please vote aye or nay.

Religious Freedom Act
1. The Pledge of Allegiance is abolished.
2. There shall be no official statement of patriotism, whether recitation is voluntary or involuntary, to be legislated by the Pacific government.
3. All tax benefits and exemptions heralded towards churches and religious institutions are hereby abolished.


Resolution Concerning Currency
1. It is the position of the people of the Pacific region that no currency should designate belief or disbelief in a higher power.


Pacific Drug Free Zone Act
1. The Pacific Region shall hereby be designated as a Drug Free Zone.
2. The usage of all recreational drugs is legalised.
3. The sale of all recreational drugs is legalised.
4. Crimes commmitted whilst under the influence of recreational drugs shall be prosecuted as crimes committed whilst in any other mental state.


Adoption Bill
1. The government shall establish an Adoption Fund, which will allow persons and couples to adopt children under the age of 5 without incurring cost.
2. No person shall be barred from adopting a child on the basis of their sexual orientation.
3. Public schools are barred from requiring children to find out information about their genetics that may potentially lead to a hidden adoption status from being unveiled.


Resolution to resolve the conflict in the Southeastern Pacific Region
1) Whereas, a minority of New Mexicans have become militant rebels that have taken over the Pacific state of New Mexico and declared Pacific laws null and void within their borders.
2) Whereas, the New Mexican rebels have cut off all taxes and other funds from the Pacific state of New Mexico.
3) Whereas, the New Mexican rebels have illegally cut off access to the state from other parts of the Pacific.
4) Whereas, the New Mexican rebels, led by WMS, are oppressing opposition (possibly with violence) within their state.
5) Therefore, the Pacific Region recognizes the need to use whatever means necessary to return order to the state of New Mexico.
6) Therefore, the Pacific Region declares that it is in a state of war with militant rebels and will begin raising a military force to return order to the state of New Mexico and the entire Pacific Region.
7) The Pacific military shall be known as the Pacific Military Force, or PMF. The Commander-in-Chief of the PMF shall be the Governor of the Pacific.
8.) Once the conflict is resolved and the region returns to a state of peace, the PMF will be disbanded until it is once again needed.
9) The current goal of the PMF shall be to liberate the state of New Mexico from militant rebels and to bring their leader, WMS, to justice.

Ballot: Vote aye or nay
Religious Freedom Act:
Resolution Concerning Currency:
Pacific Drug Free Zone Act:
Adoption Bill:
Resolution to resolve the conflict in the Southeastern Pacific Region: