Pope, UN, Europe, Muslim Countries, Liberal US Jews oppose Jerusalem decision

[Shadows]

Secretary General António Guterres and Pope Francis both expressed alarm that the announcement would provoke new tensions in the Holy City, which is revered by Jews, Christians and Muslims. “Jerusalem is a final-status issue that must be resolved through direct negotiations between the two parties on the basis of the relevant Security Council and General Assembly resolutions, taking into account the legitimate concerns of both the Palestinian and the Israeli sides,” Mr. Guterres said. “In this moment of great anxiety, I want to make it clear: There is no alternative to the two-state solution,” he said. “There is no Plan B.”

In Rome, Pope Francis prayed that Jerusalem’s status be preserved and needless conflict avoided.“I cannot remain silent about my deep concern for the situation that has developed in recent days,” Francis said at his weekly general audience at the Vatican. “And at the same time, I wish to make a heartfelt appeal to ensure that everyone is committed to respecting the status quo of the city, in accordance with the relevant resolutions of the United Nations.”“Jerusalem is a unique city,” he said, “sacred to Jews, Christians and Muslims, where the Holy Places for the respective religions are venerated, and it has a special vocation to peace.”

The European Union’s top diplomat, Federica Mogherini, expressed concern about “the repercussions this may have on the prospect of peace.” In a statement, she reiterated the bloc’s position that Jerusalem should be a future capital of two states, Israeli and Palestinian, and that embassies should not be moved there until the city’s final status was resolved. She cited a 1980 United Nations Security Council resolution that condemned Israel’s attempted annexation of East Jerusalem as a violation of international law.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/world/europe/trump-jerusalem-pope.html

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, in a pre-recorded speech, said Jerusalem was the “eternal capital of the State of Palestine” and that Trump’s move was “tantamount to the United States abdicating its role as a peace mediator.” Egypt, which forged the first Arab peace deal with Israel in 1979, brushed off Trump’s decision and said it did not change Jerusalem’s disputed legal status. Jordan said Trump’s action was “legally null” because it consolidated Israel’s occupation of East Jerusalem.

Lebanese President Michel Aoun said Trump’s Jerusalem decision was dangerous and threatened the credibility of the United States as a broker of Middle East peace. He said the move would put back the peace process by decades and threatened regional stability and perhaps global stability. Qatar’s foreign minister, Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani, said Trump’s undertaking was a “death sentence for all who seek peace” and called it “a dangerous escalation”.

Turkey said Trump’s move was “irresponsible”. ran “seriously condemns” Trump’s move as it violates U.N. resolutions on the Israel-Palestinian conflict, state media reported. In Southeast Asia, the leaders of Muslim-majority Indonesia and Malaysia denounced Trump’s action. “This can rock global security and stability,” Indonesian President Joko Widodo, leader of the world’s largest Muslim-majority nation, told a news conference in which he called for the United States to reconsider its decision.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-israel-jerusalem-reaction/arabs-europe-u-n-reject-trumps-recognition-of-jerusalem-as-israeli-capital-idUSKBN1E0312

[Shadows]

The liberal Jewish Middle East advocacy group J Street said it was “an unhelpful step with no tangible benefits, only serious risks,” Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders let it be known on Twitter that he disapproved of Trump making a policy change that has the potential to unravel his attempts to broker a peace deal between Israelis and Palestinians. “There’s a reason why all past US administrations have not made this move, and why leaders around the world have warned Trump against it: It would undermine the prospects for an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement and severely, perhaps irreparably, damage our ability to broker it,” he said.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liberal-us-jews-blast-trumps-expected-jerusalem-declaration/

Trump Jerusalem move sparks Israeli-Palestinian clashes

At least 31 Palestinians have been wounded in clashes in the Gaza Strip and across the occupied West Bank, during protests against US President Donald Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. One person is in a critical condition. Mr Trump's announcement - met with worldwide dismay - reversed decades of US policy on the sensitive issue. Israel deployed hundreds of extra troops in the West Bank as Palestinians went on strike and took to the streets. Protesters set tyres alight and threw stones, and Israeli troops fired tear gas, rubber bullets and live bullets.

There are fears the announcement could lead to a renewed outbreak of violence. The Palestinian Islamist group Hamas has already called for a new intifada, or uprising. There has also been widespread condemnation across the Arab and wider Muslim world, with Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan warning Mr Trump that he was "throwing the region into a ring of fire".

Jerusalem is of huge importance to both Israel and the Palestinians. It contains sites sacred to the three major monotheistic faiths - Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Iraeli sovereignty over Jerusalem has never been recognised internationally, and all countries maintain their embassies in Tel Aviv. East Jerusalem, which includes the Old City, was annexed by Israel after the Six Day War of 1967, but before now it has not been internationally recognised as part of Israel. According to the 1993 Israel-Palestinian peace accords, the final status of Jerusalem is meant to be discussed in the latter stages of peace talks.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42265337

[junior chįmp]

Trump's really done it this time you guys

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It wasn't a bright move, but it's only a minor disaster. He's cut the chance of him brokering a peace deal in half, from zero to zero. What has been hurt is our ability to influence governments in the area on other issues, but since Trump has already shown no ability to do that or the inclination to let others who can do diplomacy be diplomatic it's merely another straw the next president will next lift from the back of the American Middle East policy camel.

[TheSaint250]

Cool

Not surprised by anyone on that list

[HisGrace]

One of the rare things Trump's done I don't have any issue with. I don't have a problem recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's and the government buildings are all there, right? So it makes sense to have the embassy there. Functionally speaking, it's the capital whether people want to recognize it as such or not for political reasons.

[Sestak]

One of the rare things Trump's done I don't have any issue with. I don't have a problem recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's and the government buildings are all there, right? So it makes sense to have the embassy there. Functionally speaking, it's the capital whether people want to recognize it as such or not for political reasons.

Agree with this tbh. May not have been the perfect time for it but no problem with the decision itself.

[James Monroe]

One of the rare things Trump's done I don't have any issue with. I don't have a problem recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's and the government buildings are all there, right? So it makes sense to have the embassy there. Functionally speaking, it's the capital whether people want to recognize it as such or not for political reasons.

[America Needs R'hllor]

J Street is not representative of the Jewish community, I wouldn't even count them as faithful Jews.

Well you’re not even Jewish, so how about you just kindly f*** off?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

J Street is not representative of the Jewish community, I wouldn't even count them as faithful Jews.

Well you’re not even Jewish, so how about you just kindly f*** off?

No real love for JStreet, but they're fairly mainstream liberal Jews. This isn't JVP, which is essentially a front organization for anti-semites.

[America Needs R'hllor]

J Street is not representative of the Jewish community, I wouldn't even count them as faithful Jews.

Well you’re not even Jewish, so how about you just kindly f*** off?

No real love for JStreet, but they're fairly mainstream liberal Jews. This isn't JVP, which is essentially a front organization for anti-semites.

I don't know if we're talking about the same thing since I don't know the specifics of Jewish organizations in the U.S., but if you're talking about Erel Margalit's foundation then you could not be more wrong. JVP invest in job creation and education in the dying Israeli periphery and in Jerusalem- I'd say they're more Zionist than the Likud government, which throws us in the periphery to the dogs while investing in blackmailing interest groups like the settlers and Haredim.

[Santander]

One of the rare things Trump's done I don't have any issue with. I don't have a problem recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's and the government buildings are all there, right? So it makes sense to have the embassy there. Functionally speaking, it's the capital whether people want to recognize it as such or not for political reasons.

Recognizing Jerusalem as the capital (which is absolutely the right thing to do) is not the same thing as moving the embassy there. We don't always have embassies in national capitals. However, in such cases, it is usually because the host country is considered rogue or illegitimate to a degree, such as Burma. The US and some other countries do not recognize the name "Myanmar" or keep their embassies in Naypydaw, which is technically the capital of Burma, because it is both impractical and considered "illegitimate" to some degree.

The status quo "works" in Israel because Israel is a tiny country and Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are within commuting distance of each other, notwithstanding the consistently terrible traffic between the two. The Embassy in Tel Aviv performs the bulk of consular and trade promotion duties and serves as America's "base camp" in Israel, while the consulate in Jerusalem already performs de facto Embassy work, being in proximity to the Israeli government. "Moving" the embassy to Jerusalem would not require much more than changing the sign above the door.

[Bismarck]

Of course Europe opposes it. Other than the UK, and maybe a couple other exceptions, Europe is hardly even an ally anymore. As far as Palestine goes, this is like he fourth time this year they’ve had riots and whatnot. It’s not like things were on the verge of getting any better or that they wouldn’t back theocratic fascists either way.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

J Street is not representative of the Jewish community, I wouldn't even count them as faithful Jews.

Well you’re not even Jewish, so how about you just kindly f*** off?

No real love for JStreet, but they're fairly mainstream liberal Jews. This isn't JVP, which is essentially a front organization for anti-semites.

I don't know if we're talking about the same thing since I don't know the specifics of Jewish organizations in the U.S., but if you're talking about Erel Margalit's foundation then you could not be more wrong. JVP invest in job creation and education in the dying Israeli periphery and in Jerusalem- I'd say they're more Zionist than the Likud government, which throws us in the periphery to the dogs while investing in blackmailing interest groups like the settlers and Haredim.

I'm referring to the American organization Jewish Voice for Peace, which has backed Rasmeah Odeh, Allison Weir, and other Jew-killers and blood-libelers (and is only loosely Jewish, turning much of their organization over to anti-semitic non-Jews). This is the first I've heard of Jerusalem Venture Partners, but they do seem like a good organization.

[America Needs R'hllor]

J Street is not representative of the Jewish community, I wouldn't even count them as faithful Jews.

Well you’re not even Jewish, so how about you just kindly f*** off?

No real love for JStreet, but they're fairly mainstream liberal Jews. This isn't JVP, which is essentially a front organization for anti-semites.

I don't know if we're talking about the same thing since I don't know the specifics of Jewish organizations in the U.S., but if you're talking about Erel Margalit's foundation then you could not be more wrong. JVP invest in job creation and education in the dying Israeli periphery and in Jerusalem- I'd say they're more Zionist than the Likud government, which throws us in the periphery to the dogs while investing in blackmailing interest groups like the settlers and Haredim.

I'm referring to the American organization Jewish Voice for Peace, which has backed Rasmeah Odeh, Allison Weir, and other Jew-killers and blood-libelers (and is only loosely Jewish, turning much of their organization over to anti-semitic non-Jews). This is the first I've heard of Jerusalem Venture Partners, but they do seem like a good organization.

Oh, the entire first page of my Google results was for Jerusalem Venture Partners. I guess it's because I'm searching from Israel, where Jewish Voice for Peace is very irrelevant.
A bit of research about this organization suggest that it is, indeed, absolutely repugnant.

[DavidB.]

We don't always have embassies in national capitals. However, in such cases, it is usually because the host country is considered rogue or illegitimate to a degree

Not nice!

[IceSpear]

J Street is not representative of the Jewish community, I wouldn't even count them as faithful Jews.

A guy with a pedophile in his sig judging others' faith...the irony.

[America Needs R'hllor]

J Street is not representative of the Jewish community, I wouldn't even count them as faithful Jews.

Here's a thought: shut your f**king mouth, Bible-thumper.

He’d be a Torah thumper. Get woke on other religions you bigot

Actually the old testament, aka the bible, is made of much more than just the Torah. All of it is originally, and still is, the Jewish religious book.

[King Lear]

Isreal needs to return to the 1967 borders, pull all of its settlements out of the West Bank, and stop forcing America to bomb Iran’s imaginary nuclear weapons program.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Isreal needs to return to the 1967 borders, pull all of its settlements out of the West Bank, and stop forcing America to bomb Iran’s imaginary nuclear weapons program.

You're so right, all of these bombings Israel forced America to do in Iran have been horrible... All 0 of them...
Also, not happening. There is not magic trick that pulls out all the setlements- there are tens of thousands of people living here. Land swaps will be required in a peace agreement.

[Middle-aged Europe]

It seems like President Big Boy's decision had its first fallout in the Middle East.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/palestinians-vent-their-fury-on-day-of-rage-against-trumps-jerusalem-move/2017/12/08/b89bed3a-db96-11e7-a241-0848315642d0_story.html

[King Lear]

Isreal pulled all their settlements out of the Sinai in the 1980s and out of Gaza in 2005 why can’t they do it again.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Isreal pulled all their settlements out of the Sinai in the 1980s and out of Gaza in 2005 why can’t they do it again.

There weren't any negative implications for either security or Zionist goals in pulling out of the Sinai or out of Gaza.  As should be clear from my previous posts I'm hardly a fan of Israel trying to either impose an apartheid State in the West Bank or trying to annex it outright in a quest for Lebensraum, but a unilateral pullback to the 1967 borders would be downright idiotic as well.  If peace ever does happen it'll take time and negotiation.  Continuing to increase the size of the settlements is bad policy, but that certainly doesn't make a pullback sensible either.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Isreal needs to return to the 1967 borders, pull all of its settlements out of the West Bank, and stop forcing America to bomb Iran’s imaginary nuclear weapons program.

You're so right, all of these bombings Israel forced America to do in Iran have been horrible... All 0 of them...
Also, not happening. There is not magic trick that pulls out all the setlements- there are tens of thousands of people living here. Land swaps will be required in a peace agreement.

"Forcing America to bomb Iran". That's quite the special little reach there. Us tricksy Jews have been bombing Iran and the world didn't know it!

[King Lear]

Isreal is setting itself up for destruction by not embracing a two-state solution while it still can. If they continue ruling the West Bank and blockading Gaza they are in effect pursuing a one-state solution where they rule over a state with almost equal number of Arabs and Jews but the former are deprived of the ability to vote and have basic human rights. This will eventually lead to a South Africa situation were they become a international pariah and by then Arabs will be the majority of the country and giving them voting and human rights will mean the end of Jewish state. For the sake of saving the Jewish state isreal should give up the West Bank and stop blockading Gaza, it’s not like their military isn’t strong enough to repel whatever hypothetical attack’s this future Palestinian state might launch, but what is certain is keeping the current status quo will ultimately destroy their country as they know it.