House passes Fiscal 2018 Budget 256-167, Senate 65-32

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It's good CHIP got extended, but I really wouldn't count on anything good happening with DACA.

[IceSpear]

It's good CHIP got extended, but I really wouldn't count on anything good happening with DACA.

Wow, even jfern is showing more nuance than many people here and the Twitterati are. Now we've officially entered bizarro world.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

CNN is REALLY trying to push the "Democrats lost!!" narrative.

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's good CHIP got extended, but I really wouldn't count on anything good happening with DACA.

Wow, even jfern is showing more nuance than many people here and the Twitterati are. Now we've officially entered bizarro world.

Not surprising. Jfern was agreeing the other day with another Sandernista who was saying that DREAMers are a fringe group and should be deported because they are a distraction from the real issues and take jobs away from Real Americans.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It's good CHIP got extended, but I really wouldn't count on anything good happening with DACA.

Wow, even jfern is showing more nuance than many people here and the Twitterati are. Now we've officially entered bizarro world.

Not surprising. Jfern was agreeing the other day with another Sandernista who was saying that DREAMers are a fringe group and should be deported because they are a distraction from the real issues and take jobs away from Real Americans.

Bullsh**t, I never said that.

[IceSpear]

CNN is REALLY trying to push the "Democrats lost!!" narrative.

Because they did. They shut the government down over no DACA, then re opened the government without DACA. Whoever shuts down the government always loses. It's a tactic used solely to throw a temper tantrum (Gingrich), get street cred for your presidential run (Harris), or both (Cruz.)

[Holmes]

CNN is REALLY trying to push the "Democrats lost!!" narrative.

Because they did. They shut the government down over no DACA, then re opened the government without DACA. Whoever shuts down the government always loses. It's a tactic used solely to throw a temper tantrum (Gingrich), get street cred for your presidential run (Harris), or both (Cruz.)

So... Kamala Harris shut down the government?

[IceSpear]

CNN is REALLY trying to push the "Democrats lost!!" narrative.

Because they did. They shut the government down over no DACA, then re opened the government without DACA. Whoever shuts down the government always loses. It's a tactic used solely to throw a temper tantrum (Gingrich), get street cred for your presidential run (Harris), or both (Cruz.)

So... Kamala Harris shut down the government?

It was originally her idea, right?

[OSR stands with Israel]

CNN is REALLY trying to push the "Democrats lost!!" narrative.

Because they did. They shut the government down over no DACA, then re opened the government without DACA. Whoever shuts down the government always loses. It's a tactic used solely to throw a temper tantrum (Gingrich), get street cred for your presidential run (Harris), or both (Cruz.)

Gingrich may have lost the shutdown when it comes to optics but policy wise he won. Clinton caved and agreed to massive spending cuts and welfare reform.

[Hollywood]

This is a take that I agree with:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/22/16920532/shutdown-deal-democrats

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Exactly.  The Democrats didn't cave.  They were losing the debate, and decided to quit.  Independent voters realized that Democrats were holding things up with the threat of a filibuster.  It became a Democrat shutdown instead of a Trump shutdown.  Not what they wanted. 

Additionally, Democrats gave the appearance that they cared more about advocating for illegal immigrants than they did for policies that help American citizens. 

[junior chįmp]

This is a take that I agree with:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/22/16920532/shutdown-deal-democrats

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Exactly.  The Democrats didn't cave.  They were losing the debate, and decided to quit.  Independent voters realized that Democrats were holding things up with the threat of a filibuster.  It became a Democrat shutdown instead of a Trump shutdown.  Not what they wanted. 

Additionally, Democrats gave the appearance that they cared more about advocating for illegal immigrants than they did for policies that help American citizens. 

This is a prime example of why Democrats lose: They adopt the Republicans narrative

[Mr. Morden]

CNN is REALLY trying to push the "Democrats lost!!" narrative.

Because they did. They shut the government down over no DACA, then re opened the government without DACA. Whoever shuts down the government always loses. It's a tactic used solely to throw a temper tantrum (Gingrich), get street cred for your presidential run (Harris), or both (Cruz.)

So... Kamala Harris shut down the government?

It was originally her idea, right?

Yeah, Harris was the first one to float the idea of a shutdown over DACA, then the other 2020 Senate Dems quickly agreed with her, and then virtually the entire Dem. caucus ended up joining in as well.

[Boss_Rahm]

This is a take that I agree with:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/22/16920532/shutdown-deal-democrats

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Exactly.  The Democrats didn't cave.  They were losing the debate, and decided to quit.  Independent voters realized that Democrats were holding things up with the threat of a filibuster.  It became a Democrat shutdown instead of a Trump shutdown.  Not what they wanted. 

Additionally, Democrats gave the appearance that they cared more about advocating for illegal immigrants than they did for policies that help American citizens. 

That's not at all what I take from this. Democrats showed that they were willing to shut down the government over DACA - and they'd do it again. Now CHIP has been extended (good policy and takes leverage away from Republicans), and McConnell has promised a vote on a DACA replacement. Trump was never going to let the Democrats "win" the shutdown; the best hope for DREAMers is to get a bipartisan bill through Congress under normal order.

[Blue3]

How is this a "stupid cave" when they got what they wanted, a vote on the DREAM Act?

[Antonio the Sixth]

IF Democrats are fired up and ready to go back to fight as soon as McConnell breaks his word (which he obviously will), and this time not give in until DACA is the law of the land, THEN I'm OK with this strategy. Otherwise, they are worthless, pathetic slimes who have no business being a major party and deserve to be kicked out of office.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

How is this a "stupid cave" when they got what they wanted, a vote on the DREAM Act?

A commitment from McConnell isn't worth the paper it's printed on. It's very unlikely a vote will ever occur in the Senate, and even if it did pass there the house will never bring it up no matter what. Furthermore, Dems showed they can't fight and prefer to cave. The bill we got is literally the same bill we had on Friday, CHIP and all, albeit with one less week of government. This is a clear win for the GOP.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Does this CR also repeal the Obamacare taxes like the previous one did?

[The Other Castro]

How is this a "stupid cave" when they got what they wanted, a vote on the DREAM Act?

A commitment from McConnell isn't worth the paper it's printed on. It's very unlikely a vote will ever occur in the Senate, and even if it did pass there the house will never bring it up no matter what. Furthermore, Dems showed they can't fight and prefer to cave. The bill we got is literally the same bill we had on Friday, CHIP and all, albeit with one less week of government. This is a clear win for the GOP.

I think this is going to look pretty silly in a few weeks.

[Cashew]

How is this a "stupid cave" when they got what they wanted, a vote on the DREAM Act?

A commitment from McConnell isn't worth the paper it's printed on. It's very unlikely a vote will ever occur in the Senate, and even if it did pass there the house will never bring it up no matter what. Furthermore, Dems showed they can't fight and prefer to cave. The bill we got is literally the same bill we had on Friday, CHIP and all, albeit with one less week of government. This is a clear win for the GOP.

Exactly! That's all the justification needed for another shutdown, this time with less Republican leverage, and a more furious base.

[ProudModerate2]

How is this a "stupid cave" when they got what they wanted, a vote on the DREAM Act?

A commitment from McConnell isn't worth the paper it's printed on. It's very unlikely a vote will ever occur in the Senate, and even if it did pass there the house will never bring it up no matter what. Furthermore, Dems showed they can't fight and prefer to cave. The bill we got is literally the same bill we had on Friday, CHIP and all, albeit with one less week of government. This is a clear win for the GOP.

I think this is going to look pretty silly in a few weeks.

Agree.
If McConnell lies to them, all the Dem's and probably 2 or 3 Rep's in the Senate will be shocked and very pissed. Then the Dem's can shut down the gov again, with America knowing that McConnell and the GOP just flat-out lied to people in their face. The extension is only 3 weeks .... so calm down.

But you do bring-up one good point .... I don't think there is any promise that it will be debated and brought to a vote in the House. Hmmmmm.

[Mr. Morden]

Agree.
If McConnell lies to them, all the Dem's and probably 2 or 3 Rep's in the Senate will be shocked and very pissed. Then the Dem's can shut down the gov again, with America knowing that McConnell and the GOP just flat-out lied to people in their face. The extension is only 3 weeks .... so calm down.

But you do bring-up one good point .... I don't think there is any promise that it will be debated and brought to a vote in the House. Hmmmmm.

OK, so what if McConnell *does* bring up DACA in the Senate, and heck, what if it even passes in the Senate, but never gets brought up for a vote in the House?  Do the Senate Dems then reject another funding bill at the end of the three weeks and put us into another government shutdown, because the House hasn't also acted?

[Sestak]

Agree.
If McConnell lies to them, all the Dem's and probably 2 or 3 Rep's in the Senate will be shocked and very pissed. Then the Dem's can shut down the gov again, with America knowing that McConnell and the GOP just flat-out lied to people in their face. The extension is only 3 weeks .... so calm down.

But you do bring-up one good point .... I don't think there is any promise that it will be debated and brought to a vote in the House. Hmmmmm.

OK, so what if McConnell *does* bring up DACA in the Senate, and heck, what if it even passes in the Senate, but never gets brought up for a vote in the House?  Do the Senate Dems then reject another funding bill at the end of the three weeks and put us into another government shutdown, because the House hasn't also acted?

This is the one scenario that scares me.

[ProudModerate2]

Agree.
If McConnell lies to them, all the Dem's and probably 2 or 3 Rep's in the Senate will be shocked and very pissed. Then the Dem's can shut down the gov again, with America knowing that McConnell and the GOP just flat-out lied to people in their face. The extension is only 3 weeks .... so calm down.

But you do bring-up one good point .... I don't think there is any promise that it will be debated and brought to a vote in the House. Hmmmmm.

OK, so what if McConnell *does* bring up DACA in the Senate, and heck, what if it even passes in the Senate, but never gets brought up for a vote in the House?  Do the Senate Dems then reject another funding bill at the end of the three weeks and put us into another government shutdown, because the House hasn't also acted?

No I don't think the Dem's should do that.
Maybe apply pressure, threaten this and that, but in the end I don't think they should.
But it does put the DACA issue in the news and in every American's ear (once again). Remember, DACA is supported by the majority of the nation. It also forces the Senators to discuss it and vote on it, so they are all on the record (which I guess it could be a good thing or bad thing, depending on what state you represent).

That I know of, there was no promise as to what time frame the next CR would be good for. So the Dem's can always agree to another short-term CR (longer than 3 weeks though, like maybe 3 or 6 months or something), and continue to bring-up DACA as something that the country needs to resolve for these individuals who have contributed and supported our economy and nation. So the issue can be introduced (in one form or another) over and over and over again, with each new CR.

[Chief Justice Keef]

I think a lot of red avatars here don't realize that this is a "life or death" situation for a lot of people on DACA. It doesn't matter what political posturing the Democrats can do for 2018, they kicked the can down the road on DACA and now, most likely, McConnell is going to go back on his empty promise.

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

How is this a "stupid cave" when they got what they wanted, a vote on the DREAM Act?

A commitment from McConnell isn't worth the paper it's printed on. It's very unlikely a vote will ever occur in the Senate, and even if it did pass there the house will never bring it up no matter what. Furthermore, Dems showed they can't fight and prefer to cave. The bill we got is literally the same bill we had on Friday, CHIP and all, albeit with one less week of government. This is a clear win for the GOP.

I think this is going to look pretty silly in a few weeks.

Agree.
If McConnell lies to them, all the Dem's and probably 2 or 3 Rep's in the Senate will be shocked and very pissed. Then the Dem's can shut down the gov again, with America knowing that McConnell and the GOP just flat-out lied to people in their face. The extension is only 3 weeks .... so calm down.

But you do bring-up one good point .... I don't think there is any promise that it will be debated and brought to a vote in the House. Hmmmmm.

Even if Turtle is not lying, then DACA is still SOL in the House. The nasty intransigent hardliners will never let it pass or even come up to a vote.