If IQ group differences will be proven to be genetic, how'd you feel about AA?

[NoTrump]

If group differences in IQs will be proven to be genetic (as in, the reason that, say, there are few geniuses among the poor) is genetic, will your position on affirmative action change?

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

[NoTrump]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist. It's common sense that education determines how intelligent someone is - go out into coal country or in the deepest parts of the deep south and you'll see this to be true. If you're (relatively) wealthy and can afford a good education you will be smarter than a poor person of any race. Also, I don't think IQ is the be-all, end-all measure of intelligence. People are uniquely smart or dumb in different ways, and scoring poorly on an IQ test doesn't make you an idiot, necesarily. It just means you're not good at taking an IQ test.

[NoTrump]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist.

So, are the people who argue that the higher-than-average Ashkenazi Jewish average IQ might have a genetic basis to it racist? :

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18-story.html

Also, this article might be both interesting and useful for you:

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Indeed, as the article above states, speculating that group differences in IQ might have a genetic basis to them and supporting a generous welfare state is much more humane than, say, believing that Blacks and Hispanics don't perform as well on academic tests because they don't try hard enough and opposing a generous social safety net is.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You have to explain why exactly affluent Blacks underperform poor Whites--let alone wealthy Whites:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1995-SAT-Income2.png

You must be logged in to read this quote.

True, IQ isn't everything. However, if you have a better test for intelligence, please let me know.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist.

So, are the people who argue that the higher-than-average Ashkenazi Jewish average IQ might have a genetic basis to it racist? :

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18-story.html

Also, this article might be both interesting and useful for you:

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Indeed, as the article above states, speculating that group differences in IQ might have a genetic basis to them and supporting a generous welfare state is much more humane than, say, believing that Blacks and Hispanics don't perform as well on academic tests because they don't try hard enough and opposing a generous social safety net is.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You have to explain why exactly affluent Blacks underperform poor Whites--let alone wealthy Whites:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1995-SAT-Income2.png

You must be logged in to read this quote.

True, IQ isn't everything. However, if you have a better test for intelligence, please let me know.

Just speaking from personal experience, I've known very wealthy black people and dirt poor white people - and the wealthy black people obviously came across as more "educated" than the extremely poor white people. Now obviously I have no clue how these individuals did in school or on their SATs, but I personally did terribly in school but have been given an IQ test and scored 115, so perhaps how well you do in school doesn't always correlate to how smart someone is. As for finding a better way to measure intelligence, I think it's pointless to try to measure intelligence in the first place, because you can be brilliant at one thing and an idiot at everything else. Maybe your IQ is above average but in reality your performance in school was average at best and you lack any semblance of common sense, like several people I know.

[NoTrump]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist.

So, are the people who argue that the higher-than-average Ashkenazi Jewish average IQ might have a genetic basis to it racist? :

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18-story.html

Also, this article might be both interesting and useful for you:

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Indeed, as the article above states, speculating that group differences in IQ might have a genetic basis to them and supporting a generous welfare state is much more humane than, say, believing that Blacks and Hispanics don't perform as well on academic tests because they don't try hard enough and opposing a generous social safety net is.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You have to explain why exactly affluent Blacks underperform poor Whites--let alone wealthy Whites:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1995-SAT-Income2.png

You must be logged in to read this quote.

True, IQ isn't everything. However, if you have a better test for intelligence, please let me know.

Just speaking from personal experience, I've known very wealthy black people and dirt poor white people - and the wealthy black people obviously came across as more "educated" than the extremely poor white people. Now obviously I have no clue how these individuals did in school or on their SATs, but I personally did terribly in school but have been given an IQ test and scored 115, so perhaps how well you do in school doesn't always correlate to how smart someone is.

True, there can certainly be some variation in one's performance on academic/IQ tests.

As for your friends, though, I wonder if your friends were good representations of wealthy Blacks and poor Whites. Indeed, how do you know that they weren't outliers?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Oh, sure, one can have a high IQ and lack common sense. Alternatively, one can have a high IQ and be a vile, evil person like Hitler was.

Indeed, IQ certainly isn't everything. However, IQ does appear to have a lot of predictive validity when one looks at large groups of people:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2015/09/19/iq_and_success_can_a_test_score_determine_later_outcomes_in_life.html

Also, please keep in mind that I support a generous social safety net as well as (in the future) promoting technologies (such as gene editing for embryos) which will significantly raise IQ. Indeed, I think that such technologies should be free for poor and middle class people.

Frankly, my issue is allowing less qualified people to get jobs that other, more qualified people have applied for. For instance, I want the most qualified people to be my doctors because they would probably be the least likely to screw up with their surgeries, et cetera.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist.

So, are the people who argue that the higher-than-average Ashkenazi Jewish average IQ might have a genetic basis to it racist? :

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18-story.html

Also, this article might be both interesting and useful for you:

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Indeed, as the article above states, speculating that group differences in IQ might have a genetic basis to them and supporting a generous welfare state is much more humane than, say, believing that Blacks and Hispanics don't perform as well on academic tests because they don't try hard enough and opposing a generous social safety net is.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You have to explain why exactly affluent Blacks underperform poor Whites--let alone wealthy Whites:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1995-SAT-Income2.png

You must be logged in to read this quote.

True, IQ isn't everything. However, if you have a better test for intelligence, please let me know.

Just speaking from personal experience, I've known very wealthy black people and dirt poor white people - and the wealthy black people obviously came across as more "educated" than the extremely poor white people. Now obviously I have no clue how these individuals did in school or on their SATs, but I personally did terribly in school but have been given an IQ test and scored 115, so perhaps how well you do in school doesn't always correlate to how smart someone is.

True, there can certainly be some variation in one's performance on academic/IQ tests.

As for your friends, though, I wonder if your friends were good representations of wealthy Blacks and poor Whites. Indeed, how do you know that they weren't outliers?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Oh, sure, one can have a high IQ and lack common sense. Alternatively, one can have a high IQ and be a vile, evil person like Hitler was.

Indeed, IQ certainly isn't everything. However, IQ does appear to have a lot of predictive validity when one looks at large groups of people:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2015/09/19/iq_and_success_can_a_test_score_determine_later_outcomes_in_life.html

Also, please keep in mind that I support a generous social safety net as well as (in the future) promoting technologies (such as gene editing for embryos) which will significantly raise IQ. Indeed, I think that such technologies should be free for poor and middle class people.

Frankly, my issue is allowing less qualified people to get jobs that other, more qualified people have applied for. For instance, I want the most qualified people to be my doctors because they would probably be the least likely to screw up with their surgeries, et cetera.

A few final points I'd like to make:
1; anyone who supports any kind of eugenics is awful.
2; I obviously don't know if the people I've known were good representatives of poor whites and wealthy blacks - I can only go on personal experience
3; if you're saying someone is less qualified for a job because of their race, that's textbook racism.

[NoTrump]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist.

So, are the people who argue that the higher-than-average Ashkenazi Jewish average IQ might have a genetic basis to it racist? :

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18-story.html

Also, this article might be both interesting and useful for you:

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Indeed, as the article above states, speculating that group differences in IQ might have a genetic basis to them and supporting a generous welfare state is much more humane than, say, believing that Blacks and Hispanics don't perform as well on academic tests because they don't try hard enough and opposing a generous social safety net is.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You have to explain why exactly affluent Blacks underperform poor Whites--let alone wealthy Whites:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1995-SAT-Income2.png

You must be logged in to read this quote.

True, IQ isn't everything. However, if you have a better test for intelligence, please let me know.

Just speaking from personal experience, I've known very wealthy black people and dirt poor white people - and the wealthy black people obviously came across as more "educated" than the extremely poor white people. Now obviously I have no clue how these individuals did in school or on their SATs, but I personally did terribly in school but have been given an IQ test and scored 115, so perhaps how well you do in school doesn't always correlate to how smart someone is.

True, there can certainly be some variation in one's performance on academic/IQ tests.

As for your friends, though, I wonder if your friends were good representations of wealthy Blacks and poor Whites. Indeed, how do you know that they weren't outliers?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Oh, sure, one can have a high IQ and lack common sense. Alternatively, one can have a high IQ and be a vile, evil person like Hitler was.

Indeed, IQ certainly isn't everything. However, IQ does appear to have a lot of predictive validity when one looks at large groups of people:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2015/09/19/iq_and_success_can_a_test_score_determine_later_outcomes_in_life.html

Also, please keep in mind that I support a generous social safety net as well as (in the future) promoting technologies (such as gene editing for embryos) which will significantly raise IQ. Indeed, I think that such technologies should be free for poor and middle class people.

Frankly, my issue is allowing less qualified people to get jobs that other, more qualified people have applied for. For instance, I want the most qualified people to be my doctors because they would probably be the least likely to screw up with their surgeries, et cetera.

A few final points I'd like to make:
1; anyone who supports any kind of eugenics is awful.
2; I obviously don't know if the people I've known were good representatives of poor whites and wealthy blacks - I can only go on personal experience
3; if you're saying someone is less qualified for a job because of their race, that's textbook racism.

I would like to make a response to your points #1 and #3 here.

In regards to point #1, I would like to point out that what I am advocating here is completely voluntary. Indeed, parents can choose not to raise their children's IQs and thus decrease their chances of success in life. Frankly, I am certainly not advocating forcing anyone to do anything.

Indeed, I don't see anything wrong with allowing people to improve their children's odds of success in life by altering their genes while they are still embryos. After all, if your embryo had a gene for criminality, would you not want to remove this gene?

In regards to point #3 here, you are straw-manning me and putting words into my mouth. I certainly did not say that people should not be hired due to their race. Rather, I said that people should not be hired due to their IQ. Indeed, the two are not synonymous--after all, there are high-IQ people of every race and low IQ people of every race. Rather, what differs is the frequency of high and low IQ people for various races and ethnic groups (for instance, Jews are disproportionally represented among geniuses).

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist.

So, are the people who argue that the higher-than-average Ashkenazi Jewish average IQ might have a genetic basis to it racist? :

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18-story.html

Also, this article might be both interesting and useful for you:

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Indeed, as the article above states, speculating that group differences in IQ might have a genetic basis to them and supporting a generous welfare state is much more humane than, say, believing that Blacks and Hispanics don't perform as well on academic tests because they don't try hard enough and opposing a generous social safety net is.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You have to explain why exactly affluent Blacks underperform poor Whites--let alone wealthy Whites:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1995-SAT-Income2.png

You must be logged in to read this quote.

True, IQ isn't everything. However, if you have a better test for intelligence, please let me know.

Just speaking from personal experience, I've known very wealthy black people and dirt poor white people - and the wealthy black people obviously came across as more "educated" than the extremely poor white people. Now obviously I have no clue how these individuals did in school or on their SATs, but I personally did terribly in school but have been given an IQ test and scored 115, so perhaps how well you do in school doesn't always correlate to how smart someone is.

True, there can certainly be some variation in one's performance on academic/IQ tests.

As for your friends, though, I wonder if your friends were good representations of wealthy Blacks and poor Whites. Indeed, how do you know that they weren't outliers?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Oh, sure, one can have a high IQ and lack common sense. Alternatively, one can have a high IQ and be a vile, evil person like Hitler was.

Indeed, IQ certainly isn't everything. However, IQ does appear to have a lot of predictive validity when one looks at large groups of people:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2015/09/19/iq_and_success_can_a_test_score_determine_later_outcomes_in_life.html

Also, please keep in mind that I support a generous social safety net as well as (in the future) promoting technologies (such as gene editing for embryos) which will significantly raise IQ. Indeed, I think that such technologies should be free for poor and middle class people.

Frankly, my issue is allowing less qualified people to get jobs that other, more qualified people have applied for. For instance, I want the most qualified people to be my doctors because they would probably be the least likely to screw up with their surgeries, et cetera.

A few final points I'd like to make:
1; anyone who supports any kind of eugenics is awful.
2; I obviously don't know if the people I've known were good representatives of poor whites and wealthy blacks - I can only go on personal experience
3; if you're saying someone is less qualified for a job because of their race, that's textbook racism.

I would like to make a response to your points #1 and #3 here.

In regards to point #1, I would like to point out that what I am advocating here is completely voluntary. Indeed, parents can choose not to raise their children's IQs and thus decrease their chances of success in life. Frankly, I am certainly not advocating forcing anyone to do anything.

Indeed, I don't see anything wrong with allowing people to improve their children's odds of success in life by altering their genes while they are still embryos. After all, if your embryo had a gene for criminality, would you not want to remove this gene?

In regards to point #3 here, you are straw-manning me and putting words into my mouth. I certainly did not say that people should not be hired due to their race. Rather, I said that people should not be hired due to their IQ. Indeed, the two are not synonymous--after all, there are high-IQ people of every race and low IQ people of every race. Rather, what differs is the frequency of high and low IQ people for various races and ethnic groups (for instance, Jews are disproportionally represented among geniuses).

People should be hired based on their ability to do a given job, not based on their IQ. Look at all the idiots who are great at flipping burgers.

[NoTrump]

True, but high IQs are certainly a benefit when it comes to jobs which are complex and/or require a lot of brainpower.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

It wouldn't make much difference; I'd still be largely against group-based preferences but in favor of efforts to recruit from underrepresented communities. Group differences in IQ are in terms of distributional averages, so it would tell you nothing about a particular individual.  It would just be even more reason to try to aim for an economy where people can have a decent living without necessarily having the kind of the skills that are associated with high IQ.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

It wouldn't make much difference; I'd still be largely against group-based preferences but in favor of efforts to recruit from underrepresented communities. Group differences in IQ are in terms of distributional averages, so it would tell you nothing about a particular individual.  It would just be even more reason to try to aim for an economy where people can have a decent living without necessarily having the kind of the skills that are associated with high IQ.

Also, I agree with this.

[NoTrump]

It wouldn't make much difference; I'd still be largely against group-based preferences but in favor of efforts to recruit from underrepresented communities. Group differences in IQ are in terms of distributional averages, so it would tell you nothing about a particular individual.  It would just be even more reason to try to aim for an economy where people can have a decent living without necessarily having the kind of the skills that are associated with high IQ.

Also, I agree with this.

So do I, actually.

Also, as I have previously stated, I certainly support income redistribution to help poor and low IQ people as well as IQ-boosting technologies (such as gene editing for embryos and IQ selection for embryos) to allow people--everyone, but especially low IQ people--to have (very) high IQ children and descendants if that is what they want.

Indeed, it would certainly be a wonderful place if we will have 1 million or even 1 billion people of Albert Einstein's or John von Neumann's intelligence running around.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

It wouldn't make much difference; I'd still be largely against group-based preferences but in favor of efforts to recruit from underrepresented communities. Group differences in IQ are in terms of distributional averages, so it would tell you nothing about a particular individual.  It would just be even more reason to try to aim for an economy where people can have a decent living without necessarily having the kind of the skills that are associated with high IQ.

Also, I agree with this.

So do I, actually.

Also, as I have previously stated, I certainly support income redistribution to help poor and low IQ people as well as IQ-boosting technologies (such as gene editing for embryos and IQ selection for embryos) to allow people--everyone, but especially low IQ people--to have (very) high IQ children and descendants if that is what they want.

Indeed, it would certainly be a wonderful place if we will have 1 million or even 1 billion people of Albert Einstein's or John von Neumann's intelligence running around.

I want to clarify that I have no issue with parents being able to genetically modify embyros, as long as it isn't mandatory or Government-sanctioned  of course.

[wxtransit]

First, IQ is not exactly a good way of measuring intelligence, there are many more components to intelligence and also there is a lot of subjectivity surrounding the issue. Second, this is not borderline racist, this is racist.

[NoTrump]

First, IQ is not exactly a good way of measuring intelligence, there are many more components to intelligence and also there is a lot of subjectivity surrounding the issue.

What exactly do you think is a better test for intelligence?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Also, no one is disputing that there are some extremely small Blacks and Hispanics and some not very smart Whites and Asians; indeed, what I am talking about here are frequencies:

[wxtransit]

First, IQ is not exactly a good way of measuring intelligence, there are many more components to intelligence and also there is a lot of subjectivity surrounding the issue.

What exactly do you think is a better test for intelligence?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Also, no one is disputing that there are some extremely small Blacks and Hispanics and some not very smart Whites and Asians; indeed, what I am talking about here are frequencies:

This whole argument is based on a hypothetical--what if genetic differences and IQ were linked. You don't seriously believe this to be true, do you? Because--spoiler alert here--they're not. The data that you provided only shows one thing: socioeconomic and societal factors affect performance on the SAT. I am not a supporter of affirmative action, personally I support a more meritocratic system. But there is no genetic difference in intelligence. Also, I do not think there is a conclusive test for intelligence, unfortunately. Until better methods are created, current tests are too subjective and intelligence is still to hard to quantify.

[ElectionsGuy]

IQ is not a fixed trait, at least I don't think so. And just because someone may be intelligent does not mean they make better decisions or end up more successful. We start making dangerous conclusions when we lump groups together based on characteristics like these. The best thing to do is to treat people as individuals. Of course, affirmative action does not do that and that's why I'm against it and will be no matter what the scenario.

[wxtransit]

IQ is not a fixed trait, at least I don't think so. And just because someone may be intelligent does not mean they make better decisions or end up more successful. We start making dangerous conclusions when we lump groups together based on characteristics like these. The best thing to do is to treat people as individuals. Of course, affirmative action does not do that and that's why I'm against it and will be no matter what the scenario.

Bingo.

[Dr. MB]

I’d still be against it, and by the way IQ doesn’t serve any useful purpose other than as a bragging right.

[Beet]

I'm East Asian with a 710 SAT math score and a $100k+ annual income and the guy who taught me my career and was smarter than me by quite a large margin was Black. Every morning we would go onto GoToMeeting.com together and he would share his screen and teach me a new skill. This continued for about a year. After that, I had my marketable skills after being a Ph.D dropout and only being able to take a job in data entry prior to meeting him. My only regret is that I didn't urge him to rest and take better care of his heart, as I had no idea of the extent of his heart disease at the time. He was a huge Hillary supporter, even more than me, and went PUMA after Obama won the nomination. He never considered Obama really knew the African American experience, but wouldn't talk to me about it either, as he told me I also did not understand. The last time I saw him, was at a baseball game, where he had brought a female friend of his as well. RIP.

As with NoTrump, I believe genetic engineering will one day scramble many of our biological differences, and IQ may be one of them. At that time, race, gender, and all of identity politics will no longer matter however, class differences will still matter because it will determine what kind of genetic or cybernetic modifications you and your posterity have access to. Only certain rich and well connected classes will get the best artifical enhancements. This will breed a whole new class of resentments and questions of fairness. By that time I'll be dead.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

How the heck is 75% of this forum anti affirmative action in normal circumstances??? What a mess!

[Pennsylvania Deplorable]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist.

So, are the people who argue that the higher-than-average Ashkenazi Jewish average IQ might have a genetic basis to it racist? :

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18-story.html

Also, this article might be both interesting and useful for you:

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Indeed, as the article above states, speculating that group differences in IQ might have a genetic basis to them and supporting a generous welfare state is much more humane than, say, believing that Blacks and Hispanics don't perform as well on academic tests because they don't try hard enough and opposing a generous social safety net is.

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You have to explain why exactly affluent Blacks underperform poor Whites--let alone wealthy Whites:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1995-SAT-Income2.png

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True, IQ isn't everything. However, if you have a better test for intelligence, please let me know.

It's also worth noting that the income gap is largely a function of high IQ people on average making more money. Since IQ is hereditary, it makes sense that children born to rich parents (who are on average more intelligent) will score better themselves. There are situations in which nurture can trump nature (such as childhood malnutrition), but overall the data points towards heritability being the primary determinant. One curious fact is that whites outperform Asians on the SAT in Hawaii, which may suggest that the mean with Asians in America has been brought up by American corporations cherry-picking the best and brightest of Asia. This makes even more sense when one sees that there is very little difference between IQ scores of East Asians in Asia and in America, but a considerable gap exists between South Asia and South Asians in America.

This really shouldn't be controversial. The notion that the brain, the single most complex organ int he body, would miraculously remain unaffected by tens of thousands of years of evolution in vastly different environments defies reason.

Scientists have found evidence of hereditary intelligence in chimpanzees. https://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/40459/title/Inherited-Intelligence/

Truly, denying it for humans is secular creationism. Egalitarianism is taking on a religious quality in its fight against science. A few liberal intellectuals have had the courage to stand up to this.
More recently, Sam Harris acknowledged racial differences in IQ, albeit reluctantly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGp06vMPERE

UCLA (far from the bastion of alt-right research) has found that genes determine intelligence. http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/more-proof-that-intelligence-is-85134

Study finds that racial differences in incarceration rate can largely be explained by histories of violent behavior and IQ scores, not by discrimination in the justice system. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886913000470

Research shows a strong link between IQ of children and their future earnings as adults. http://www.eugenics.net/papers/murray.html

Genes may influence other factors related to academic success as well. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/genes-dont-just-influence-your-iq-they-determine-how-well-you-do-school

I'd also add that in my anecdotal experience, there was an obvious trend in which siblings of students int he gifted program were usually also in it. Furthermore, when I got the highest SAT and ACT scores in my school, nobody was surprised because implicitly we all know individuals have different levels of raw intelligence. There's no logical reason to think groups wouldn't.

Here's a video calmly explaining racial differences in IQ and debunking common arguments against it. It has a page of citations at the end. https://www.bitchute.com/video/7YB1g7v7qUOw/
Not content to accept it from a white guy? Here's an article from a mixed race man doing much the same thing. https://jaymans.wordpress.com/jaymans-race-inheritance-and-iq-f-a-q-f-r-b/

"There is no truth existing which I fear, or would wish unknown to the world." - Thomas Jefferson

[Dr. MB]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist.

So, are the people who argue that the higher-than-average Ashkenazi Jewish average IQ might have a genetic basis to it racist? :

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18-story.html

Also, this article might be both interesting and useful for you:

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Indeed, as the article above states, speculating that group differences in IQ might have a genetic basis to them and supporting a generous welfare state is much more humane than, say, believing that Blacks and Hispanics don't perform as well on academic tests because they don't try hard enough and opposing a generous social safety net is.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You have to explain why exactly affluent Blacks underperform poor Whites--let alone wealthy Whites:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1995-SAT-Income2.png

You must be logged in to read this quote.

True, IQ isn't everything. However, if you have a better test for intelligence, please let me know.

It's also worth noting that the income gap is largely a function of high IQ people on average making more money. Since IQ is hereditary, it makes sense that children born to rich parents (who are on average more intelligent) will score better themselves. There are situations in which nurture can trump nature (such as childhood malnutrition), but overall the data points towards heritability being the primary determinant. One curious fact is that whites outperform Asians on the SAT in Hawaii, which may suggest that the mean with Asians in America has been brought up by American corporations cherry-picking the best and brightest of Asia. This makes even more sense when one sees that there is very little difference between IQ scores of East Asians in Asia and in America, but a considerable gap exists between South Asia and South Asians in America.

This really shouldn't be controversial. The notion that the brain, the single most complex organ int he body, would miraculously remain unaffected by tens of thousands of years of evolution in vastly different environments defies reason.

Scientists have found evidence of hereditary intelligence in chimpanzees. https://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/40459/title/Inherited-Intelligence/

Truly, denying it for humans is secular creationism. Egalitarianism is taking on a religious quality in its fight against science. A few liberal intellectuals have had the courage to stand up to this.
More recently, Sam Harris acknowledged racial differences in IQ, albeit reluctantly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGp06vMPERE

UCLA (far from the bastion of alt-right research) has found that genes determine intelligence. http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/more-proof-that-intelligence-is-85134

Study finds that racial differences in incarceration rate can largely be explained by histories of violent behavior and IQ scores, not by discrimination in the justice system. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886913000470

Research shows a strong link between IQ of children and their future earnings as adults. http://www.eugenics.net/papers/murray.html

Genes may influence other factors related to academic success as well. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/genes-dont-just-influence-your-iq-they-determine-how-well-you-do-school

I'd also add that in my anecdotal experience, there was an obvious trend in which siblings of students int he gifted program were usually also in it. Furthermore, when I got the highest SAT and ACT scores in my school, nobody was surprised because implicitly we all know individuals have different levels of raw intelligence. There's no logical reason to think groups wouldn't.

Here's a video calmly explaining racial differences in IQ and debunking common arguments against it. It has a page of citations at the end. https://www.bitchute.com/video/7YB1g7v7qUOw/
Not content to accept it from a white guy? Here's an article from a mixed race man doing much the same thing. https://jaymans.wordpress.com/jaymans-race-inheritance-and-iq-f-a-q-f-r-b/

"There is no truth existing which I fear, or would wish unknown to the world." - Thomas Jefferson

Children of stupid people aren't inherently stupid. Maybe they are because they were raised by stupid people, but if they are adopted at birth there's no guarantee they'll be just as dumb as their biological parents. It's all a product of environment. Referring to the bolded point, it's likely because the environment they were raised in gave them a better education than their peers, not because their brain is genetically amazing.