Hot, Bad & Unpopular Takes

[fhtagn]

Also I just think I have a different set of values for animals. I would not do everything for my dogs, and though I care about them, I still hold them as sub-human, and have inherently less value than us, and so I would not place them above hardly any human in terms of doing what's best for one or the other.

I'd like to think I'm not alone on this forum in saying that dogs > you.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Also I just think I have a different set of values for animals. I would not do everything for my dogs, and though I care about them, I still hold them as sub-human, and have inherently less value than us, and so I would not place them above hardly any human in terms of doing what's best for one or the other.

I'd like to think I'm not alone on this forum in saying that dogs > you.

Unfortunately you are probably right. I think the world is messed up enough where substantial amounts of people would value a dog or another animals life over a human, just sad to think about.... oh well, guess you gotta make peace with the things you can't control and then try and move on.

Good day and still wish the best.

[fhtagn]

Just to give you a few sources:

UKC Breed Standard for the American Pit Bull Terrier

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ADBA Breed Standard

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American Temperament Test Society Breed Statistics (as of Dec 2017)

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American Veterinary Medical Association statement explaining why your position is wrong.

ASPCA position statement also explaining that your position is wrong.


I guarantee you've actually done no research on this topic and are basing your hatred on an overreaction to a scenario that wasn't even remotely dangerous for you. I hope for your sake you actually bother to educate yourself instead of spewing those garbage statements again.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Pit bull bans are racist, but obviously in the cosmic sense a human life is worth more than that of a dog’s.

[world.execute(me)]

snip

Pitbulls are good, but do you have to project mental health issues onto everyone who pisses you off? JFC.

[world.execute(me)]

Anyway, all life is valuable, and killing things to eat their flesh is f**ked. Especially considering that the food produced by raising animals to slaughter is significantly less than they have to be fed.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Anyway, all life is valuable, and killing things to eat their flesh is f**ked. Especially considering that the food produced by raising animals to slaughter is significantly less than they have to be fed.

Yeah I actully agree with this that many stock animals are quite inefficient in the global agricultural and cattle sector. Also, they pollute a lot.

[fhtagn]

snip

Pitbulls are good, but do you have to project mental health issues onto everyone who pisses you off? JFC.

If someone is of the mindset that all of anything should be killed, then yes, that is a very huge sign of some serious issues.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

My dog-related hot take is that most dogs are kinda gross, dumb and annoying.

You've forced me to do this:

[snip]

Something tells me you didn't mind being forced to do that

In my limited experience golden labs are unquestionably the best type of dog, so yes I will grant you that. Also apparently huskies don't bark? That's pretty neat. I'm just tired of having my friends' dogs bark at me and try to jump on top of me whenever I come over, and of them drooling on me or trying to stick some saliva-covered tennis ball in my lap when I'm trying to eat dinner.

[Torie]

Just to give you a few sources:

UKC Breed Standard for the American Pit Bull Terrier

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ADBA Breed Standard

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American Temperament Test Society Breed Statistics (as of Dec 2017)

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American Veterinary Medical Association statement explaining why your position is wrong.

ASPCA position statement also explaining that your position is wrong.


I guarantee you've actually done no research on this topic and are basing your hatred on an overreaction to a scenario that wasn't even remotely dangerous for you. I hope for your sake you actually bother to educate yourself instead of spewing those garbage statements again.

Do you have any comment on this article? My personal experience with Pits in dog parks has not been good. About half of them are sufficiently aggressive, that we have to pull our dog out of the park for fear that there is an excessive risk that he will be hurt. Dog parks typically have a small dog and larger dog area. Our dog is fine with big dogs (he is fearless and gutsy and loves to wrestle (Roby is the one adorned with a blue harness), but if we see a Pit in the one area of the dog park, we go to the other.

[world.execute(me)]

snip

Pitbulls are good, but do you have to project mental health issues onto everyone who pisses you off? JFC.

If someone is of the mindset that all of anything should be killed, then yes, that is a very huge sign of some serious issues.

You have zero qualifications to say that. You're calling a kid a danger to society because he said a bad opinion. That's a pretty f**ked up thing to say, and is part of a long trend of being venomous, dismissive, patronizing, and even outright dehumanizing to everyone who pisses you off. (I'm aware that I have a certain level of this, but not to your level, especially not anymore).

Is implying that a teenage kid needs "psychological help" and to be locked up for the safety of society an acceptable thing to say in an argument?

I don't even care if this gets modded. You are painfully uneducated, Bagel. Anyone who would go out and say a breed that was never bred to show aggression towards humans is evil and should be killed is someone who needs some serious psychological help, and needs to be somewhere that he isn't a threat to society. Especially when you have no good reason to actually hate the breed to this level.

I guarantee based on your responses here as well as some of the comments you've made on discord, being in a room with my dogs is a significantly safer environment than being in a room with you.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Bagel first suggests fhtang, as a pit owner, is a terrible person and declares he'd like her dog to be euthanized. Then he starts acting like a victim because she didn't take kindly to this.
 

[fhtagn]

Just to give you a few sources:

UKC Breed Standard for the American Pit Bull Terrier

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ADBA Breed Standard

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American Temperament Test Society Breed Statistics (as of Dec 2017)

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American Veterinary Medical Association statement explaining why your position is wrong.

ASPCA position statement also explaining that your position is wrong.


I guarantee you've actually done no research on this topic and are basing your hatred on an overreaction to a scenario that wasn't even remotely dangerous for you. I hope for your sake you actually bother to educate yourself instead of spewing those garbage statements again.

Do you have any comment on this article? My personal experience with Pits in dog parks has not been good. About half of them are sufficiently aggressive, that we have to pull our dog out of the park for fear that there is an excessive risk that he will be hurt. Dog parks typically have a small dog and larger dog area. Our dog is fine with big dogs (he is fearless and gutsy and loves to wrestle (Roby is the one adorned with a blue harness), but if we see a Pit in the one area of the dog park, we go to the other.

I don't happen to be much of a believer in dog parks in general, as they're often unsanitary from irresponsible owners not picking up after their pets, the dogs entering the park haven't been properly evaluated to ensure they're safe with other dogs, and even dogs that are normally fine with other dogs might be more likely to act out in the presence of their owner. I happen to prefer in most cases that dogs are taken to play groups in boarding facilities since there's stricter standards for cleanliness, dogs are better evaluated to ensure they are safe to be in a group with other dogs, and they are not able to feed off their owners in the event of a high stress situation.

In the link posted above with UKC and ADBA breed standards:

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Dog aggression is very common in the breed. It's the result of a couple different factors, 1. it's actually a trait for most terriers, not limited to the APBT and 2. generations of being bred for dog on dog combat. It's for that reason that I actually don't agree with allowing them in dog parks (though it's worth noting that terriers aren't the only group of breeds where dog aggression is common, and my belief applies to all breeds with a genetic predisposition to dog aggression). Obviously not all of them will display it, and in those cases I would prefer owners take their dogs to a private facility to be individually evaluated. This doesn't make them bad dogs, as there are plenty of reasons an owner would want a dog that isn't good with other animals, and most of them have nothing to do with something that is a criminal act, the same applies to breed that are genetically prone to display aggression towards humans (which as as pointed out, pit bulls are not). The key to ensuring people are safe is ensuring that owners are properly educated on the breed of dog they own, and responsibly managing their dog's level of dog or human aggression if present.


The article itself is incredibly flawed in it's reasoning, using sources from organizations run by folks who have no professional experience in the industry, and an obvious bone to pick with one specific breed of dog. There's plenty of articles that tackle the credibility (or lack thereof) of folks like Merritt Clifton (who runs Animals 24-7) and Colleen Lynn (who runs DogsBite), such as this one.

It's also worth noting that organizations that are actually credible enough to provide a position on the issue do not agree with breed specific legislation and the elimination of pit bulls:

The American Bar Association

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I already posted a statement from them earlier, but here is another from The American Veterinary Medical Association

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National Animal Control Association

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These two mostly relate to service animals, but still apply:
Dept of Housing and Urban Development

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Dept of Justice, under the guidelines of the Americans with Disabilities Act

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I also cannot find the specific links for the official statements, but I have the statements saved from the following organizations/agencies:

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Regarding the amount of "pit bulls" that are linked to attacks on humans, also from the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior:

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The CDC recommends against using breed as a factor in dog-bite prevention policy and states: “Any dog of any breed has the potential to bite.”
I also do have a link regarding a statement from someone within the CDC here.

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I hope some of this helps.
(also, your dog is adorable)

[Torie]

Thank you for your reply (and for the kind words about Roby, who wants to hop on my lap right now to induce me to get  away from the computer and into the car for a drive), and some sensible views about the use of dog parks. I don't support euthanization by the way, and disliked the way this discussion has gone about pit bulls, but that is another matter.

[world.execute(me)]

Bagel first suggests fhtang, as a pit owner, is a terrible person and declares he'd like her dog to be euthanized. Then he starts acting like a victim because she didn't take kindly to this.
 

So he should be moderated too. That doesn't justify how fhtagn responded.

[fhtagn]

This is all my dog has to say about fools like Bagel and those who defend him:

[Intell]

I fail to understand the feminist theory and the fact that women are inherently discriminated against.

Like, yes women get discriminated against, but so do men. Like sexism in the workforce and sexual assault, I get, but how does that translate into other aspects of society.

Like in politics, why are women underrepresented and is this due to sexism? The reason I'm asking this is that in my high school, 75% of the student representative council was male, in university that amount stayed similar and such ratio is similar in the fields of politics (even better sometimes).

The discrepancies were even larger in AP courses such as physics (had one female out of a class of 15),  AP government and politics (65% male), AP calculus (60% male). This was at a time in where only 45% my high school was college-bound, and 55% of the AP students were female.

How do you fix this? Similar things happened in university.

Like racism, homophobia, transphobia I can understand due to the obvious majority-minority paradigm, and the household you were born to (a byproduct of your skin colour) affecting your destiny. How does sexism work though? You were born into the same family and enjoyed the same privileges of wealth and power as your male counterparts.

This may be because I've talked to people that have been Muslim, Sikh, gay, black, Hispanic, transmale, illegal, poor so I can understand their perspective but have never really talked this with women (apart from in relationships, but that topic never really comes up.

[Mr. Smith]

Authoritarian shouldn't be considered insulting inherently.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Authoritarian shouldn't be considered insulting inherently.

Aww, thank you!

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Proportional Representation is a very badly designed concept.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Draco23 YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 1,997

Hot, Bad & Unpopular Takes « Reply #1438 on: September 2, 1993, 07:45:48 pm » You must be logged in to read this quote. Uneducated Death Eaters should be ashamed of themselves. I'd say they should be bred out of existence, but if we are being honest, no one will ever want to breed with them anyway, so it'll already happen. [/quote] My father will hear about this.

[Badger]

I have two dogs, it's just kind of sad how a lot of people here would put their dog's lives over a person's. I love my dogs, but besides for the worst of the worst of people, I always would put a person's life over either of my dog's, including every person on this forum. Humans are more valuable than any animal, those are just my values. Of course the broken clock is right twice a day, but that's my generally rule of thumb. One of the most terrifying moments of my life was when a half pit got on top of me, it did not attack or anything, but I never felt closer to death.

So you hate an entire breed over the actions of a (most likely) poorly bred mutt that didn't actually harm you?

I almost lost my left leg because of a dog attack, but unlike you, rather than hate something I didn't know, I educated myself and ended up with dogs that I would be willing to do anything to ensure that they live happy, healthy lives.

Holy $hit! What happened?

[fhtagn]

I have two dogs, it's just kind of sad how a lot of people here would put their dog's lives over a person's. I love my dogs, but besides for the worst of the worst of people, I always would put a person's life over either of my dog's, including every person on this forum. Humans are more valuable than any animal, those are just my values. Of course the broken clock is right twice a day, but that's my generally rule of thumb. One of the most terrifying moments of my life was when a half pit got on top of me, it did not attack or anything, but I never felt closer to death.

So you hate an entire breed over the actions of a (most likely) poorly bred mutt that didn't actually harm you?

I almost lost my left leg because of a dog attack, but unlike you, rather than hate something I didn't know, I educated myself and ended up with dogs that I would be willing to do anything to ensure that they live happy, healthy lives.

Holy $hit! What happened?

Happened 4 years ago (almost exactly, actually, by a few days). Roommate I lived with had a dog that was aggressive and was working on "training" it. They had the dog loose in the house and didn't tell me, so when I came home and opened the door the dog was on my leg almost instantly. The original injury was a bite wound down to the muscle, and despite getting medical treatment the day of the incident and keeping it clean, it still got infected very badly (common for most animal bites), and required two surgeries, in which the surgeon even provided a statement to my lawyer that I was close to losing my leg because of how bad it was.

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

Draco23 YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 1,997

Hot, Bad & Unpopular Takes « Reply #1438 on: September 2, 1993, 07:45:48 pm » You must be logged in to read this quote. Uneducated Death Eaters should be ashamed of themselves. I'd say they should be bred out of existence, but if we are being honest, no one will ever want to breed with them anyway, so it'll already happen.

My father will hear about this.
[/td][/tr][/table][/quote]
This is great! lol

[Badger]

I have two dogs, it's just kind of sad how a lot of people here would put their dog's lives over a person's. I love my dogs, but besides for the worst of the worst of people, I always would put a person's life over either of my dog's, including every person on this forum. Humans are more valuable than any animal, those are just my values. Of course the broken clock is right twice a day, but that's my generally rule of thumb. One of the most terrifying moments of my life was when a half pit got on top of me, it did not attack or anything, but I never felt closer to death.

So you hate an entire breed over the actions of a (most likely) poorly bred mutt that didn't actually harm you?

I almost lost my left leg because of a dog attack, but unlike you, rather than hate something I didn't know, I educated myself and ended up with dogs that I would be willing to do anything to ensure that they live happy, healthy lives.

Holy $hit! What happened?

Happened 4 years ago (almost exactly, actually, by a few days). Roommate I lived with had a dog that was aggressive and was working on "training" it. They had the dog loose in the house and didn't tell me, so when I came home and opened the door the dog was on my leg almost instantly. The original injury was a bite wound down to the muscle, and despite getting medical treatment the day of the incident and keeping it clean, it still got infected very badly (common for most animal bites), and required two surgeries, in which the surgeon even provided a statement to my lawyer that I was close to losing my leg because of how bad it was.

That's awful! Despite our differences I'm genuinely glad you healed.

On a related note, and I'm going to preface this by saying that I don't have an opinion so much as I'm playing Devil's Advocate and genuinely conflicted. Leaving aside gross overreaches of authority such as Exterminating pitbulls, or frankly even requiring them to be subject to hire legal scrutiny like Ohio I used to do for example, just in terms of owning raising pitbulls can there be an argument made because so many assholes have as you noted bread so many of the breed for generations for explicit dog fighting, which makes the dog of more Violet dog in general, that pit bulls are buying large - this is a terrible choice of word but for lack of a better one I can think of at the moment - - cursed?

Again, I'm not talking about Exterminating the dogs and setting up camps like Dogchau ( see what I did there?) As Bagel seems to suggest. It's just in my own personal experience I've seen too many of my worst clients owning pets and I damn well know that they're not doing them out of a sense of rescuing dogs. I guarantee every single one of them, understanding my clients tend to be not good people by and large albeit with exceptions, own the dog if not outright for dog fighting then certainly because the dog is aggressive and they want something to project toughness and slash work attack any so-called trespassers who might get near their stash.

Long Meandering question, but I think you get the point. Thoughts?