$1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread

[junior chįmp]

I can see Collins and either Corker or maybe Kennedy voting no but I'm unsure about where a third no could come from

McCain wouldn’t surprise me, he sounds pretty unhappy with the bill and would love to milk being the deciding vote for all the attention he can.

Based McCain

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

I'm not going to straight up panic yet. If "the Trigger" is in the senate bill, I expect it to be removed in conference which might freak out Corker and the upcoming Byrd Bath probably endangers Murkowski's vote.  Regardless of what happens, we've got atleast another week of this crap.

Corker and everyone besides Collins and Murkowski and McCain were/are always and always will be yeses. Don't kid yourself

I'm not going to straight up panic yet. If "the Trigger" is in the senate bill, I expect it to be removed in conference which might freak out Corker and the upcoming Byrd Bath probably endangers Murkowski's vote.  Regardless of what happens, we've got atleast another week of this crap.

There will be much moaning and gnashing of teeth by various Republicans along the way, but eventually this will pass in some form.

I'm aware, but I've got a slim ray of hope that something screws this all up.

Remember the big nasty fight over Cap and Trade back in 09/10? That bill passed both the House and Senate, but died in conference.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's hard to be optimistic right now.

[Kingpoleon]

A fiscal trigger is good, if it guarantees automatic release if revenue does not rise as projections show it would need to to recoup the loss in revenue within the years.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

The motion by Sen. Wyden to return the bill to committee has failed on a 48-51 Vote. McCain abstained.

[jaichind]

Financial markets now pricing in in the prospects of the plan becoming law. 

The S&P 500 Financials Index is at its highest level since October 2007. Banks could see a boost to net income -- they have fewer deductions and tend to pay more in federal taxes than non financial companies

The US Dollar Spot Index has increased for a third straight day, the longest stretch in more than a month. The prospect of faster economic growth and higher interest rates supports the greenback.

[Kingpoleon]

The motion by Sen. Wyden to return the bill to committee has failed on a 48-51 Vote.

Good to see Wyden pulling all the stops. A top rate of 27.5% or 29.5% wouldn’t be unreasonable for the corporate rate, but these deductions on income are sneaky nonsense. We really need a top rate of 42.5% to prevent any chance of this being revenue-deficit.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

The Senate Stands adjourned until 10:30 AM ET tomorrow.

[Matty]

Castro, gass, dwarven, yank, etc...... would you say the odds of this thing passing are above 50%?

[Yank2133]

Castro, gass, dwarven, yank, etc...... would you say the odds of this thing passing are above 50%?

I would give it an 80% chance passing.

[Pericles]

I'm not going to straight up panic yet. If "the Trigger" is in the senate bill, I expect it to be removed in conference which might freak out Corker and the upcoming Byrd Bath probably endangers Murkowski's vote.  Regardless of what happens, we've got atleast another week of this crap.

Corker and everyone besides Collins and Murkowski and McCain were/are always and always will be yeses. Don't kid yourself

I'm not going to straight up panic yet. If "the Trigger" is in the senate bill, I expect it to be removed in conference which might freak out Corker and the upcoming Byrd Bath probably endangers Murkowski's vote.  Regardless of what happens, we've got atleast another week of this crap.

There will be much moaning and gnashing of teeth by various Republicans along the way, but eventually this will pass in some form.

I'm aware, but I've got a slim ray of hope that something screws this all up.

Remember the big nasty fight over Cap and Trade back in 09/10? That bill passed both the House and Senate, but died in conference.

No it didn't it passed the House narrowly and was never taken up by the Senate.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Castro, gass, dwarven, yank, etc...... would you say the odds of this thing passing are above 50%?

Yeah, but not by much - probably like 53% or something.

[The Other Castro]

Castro, gass, dwarven, yank, etc...... would you say the odds of this thing passing are above 50%?

Currently, yes.

[The Other Castro]

Democrats shouldn't be surprised by how easily some Republicans like Collins, Murkowski, and McCain have come on board after everything that happened with Trumpcare. There are some issues that will create some overlap in the interests and decisions of them and Democrats, but do not be mistaken. They are not Democrats. They will not do the things that Democrats want just because they did that thing that time that you agreed with. They are Republicans, and their interests are more closely aligned with those of the Republican Party.

[Matty]

Democrats shouldn't be surprised by how easily some Republicans like Collins, Murkowski, and McCain have come on board after everything that happened with Trumpcare. There are some issues that will create some overlap in the interests and decisions of them and Democrats, but do not be mistaken. They are not Democrats. They will not do the things that Democrats want just because they did that thing that time that you agreed with. They are Republicans, and their interests are more closely aligned with those of the Republican Party.

While true that they are republicans and nothing unifies republicans more than tax cuts, it is also true that both susan collins and John McCain voted against the Bush tax cuts.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

It's still unclear if the Senate Final Passage Vote will be late tomorrow or Friday, but per HuffPo, Ryan is reportedly telling House Members to be prepared to take a procedural vote to create the conference committee at some point on Friday. Could be a sign that Republicans are confident they have the votes in the Senate.

[Matty]

It's still unclear if the Senate Final Passage Vote will be late tomorrow or Friday, but per HuffPo, Ryan is reportedly telling House Members to be prepared to take a procedural vote to create the conference committee at some point on Friday. Could be a sign that Republicans are confident they have the votes in the Senate.

If the GOP has votes in the senate, I am intrigued at which 2 they will let vote "no" for optic purposes.

[Badger]

I'm sure everyone's favorite RINO is jizzing up a storm right now. After all, tax cuts for the wealthy is basically the only reason s/he's a Republican.

It's better than being a Republican because you just hate the blacks

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The corporate tax cut will attract companies, spur investment and create thousands of jobs for minorities. Trump loves minorities and minorities will love Trump after they get their big fat TRUMP paycheck next year . Democrats oppose corporate tax cuts because they help minorities. SAD!

Why do you have a blue avatar again? Clearly you don't drink the kool-aid on trickle-down and white-grievance, so I'm genuinely puzzled.

Not all Republicans are Trumpists. (Most, sadly, but not all).

Well why are you? I don't think I've ever seem you argue for the standard Republicam position on anything on this forum. So what in the world is the point if you're clearly out of sync with the party? Lol

Because there is a world of the Republican Party Beyond Trump. It's increasingly, and scarily, narrowing, but it exists.

Besides, someone has to fight these bastards from the inside

[OSR stands with Israel]

I'm sure everyone's favorite RINO is jizzing up a storm right now. After all, tax cuts for the wealthy is basically the only reason s/he's a Republican.

I'd be surprised if he loved this bill. I think he's more a Republican for historical and personal reasons. "Party of Lincoln, born and raised Republican, etc." It's more of an identity and culture thing. Kind of like the inverse of those "My grandpappy would hit me with a coal shovel if I ever voted Republican" right wingers that used to dominate West Virginia, but have finally either died or switched parties once the Democrats had the nerve to betray them and elect a darkie I mean uhh...economic anxiety! Yeah, that's it.

Robert Byrd(From the Mid 1980s on) and Jay Rockefeller were the furthest thing from  Right Wingers

[OSR stands with Israel]

I'm being factual

I dislike the deficit side of the bill but to claim it raises taxes on the middle class is insanity

The cut for the middle class is much smaller than the cut for the rich, and the Poor may actually see a tax increase.

um no the standard deduction will be doubled so their taxes will be cut.

[Former Kentuckian]

I'm really dumb about stuff like this, but I'm worried, depressed over it, and need some help understanding it. If/when this passes, will it be for forever or can it be changed/overruled (for lack of a better word at the moment) if Dems win President and majorities in both Chambers in 2020? If it actually starts doing all the bad things opponents are saying it will, can we have another vote on tax reform and redo/undo this in another Congress? Tax stuff like this goes over my head and I'm totally ignorant about it.

[BudgieForce]

I'm really dumb about stuff like this, but I'm worried, depressed over it, and need some help understanding it. If/when this passes, will it be for forever or can it be changed/overruled (for lack of a better word at the moment) if Dems win President and majorities in both Chambers in 2020? If it actually starts doing all the bad things opponents are saying it will, can we have another vote on tax reform and redo/undo this in another Congress? Tax stuff like this goes over my head and I'm totally ignorant about it.

I'm at a loss myself but it makes me feel better that a bunch of tax wonks on Twitter seem optimistic of this bill.

[jaichind]

I'm really dumb about stuff like this, but I'm worried, depressed over it, and need some help understanding it. If/when this passes, will it be for forever or can it be changed/overruled (for lack of a better word at the moment) if Dems win President and majorities in both Chambers in 2020? If it actually starts doing all the bad things opponents are saying it will, can we have another vote on tax reform and redo/undo this in another Congress? Tax stuff like this goes over my head and I'm totally ignorant about it.

Well, at some stage in the future the Dems will take over the Presidency and have a majority in the House and Senate.  I think they will, like the GOP, keep parts of this existing tax plan (assuming some variation does pass and get signed into law) but change others in keeping with the Dem's priorities. So some of this plan will survive and others will be changed.

[Tintrlvr]

I'm being factual

I dislike the deficit side of the bill but to claim it raises taxes on the middle class is insanity

The cut for the middle class is much smaller than the cut for the rich, and the Poor may actually see a tax increase.

um no the standard deduction will be doubled so their taxes will be cut.

This is a canard. Double the standard deduction but get rid of the personal exemption so the benefits are very marginal, especially as compared to rising marginal rates from the use of chained CPI. For poor families with more than one kid, it's an immediate tax hike.

[Brittain33]

I'm really dumb about stuff like this, but I'm worried, depressed over it, and need some help understanding it. If/when this passes, will it be for forever or can it be changed/overruled (for lack of a better word at the moment) if Dems win President and majorities in both Chambers in 2020? If it actually starts doing all the bad things opponents are saying it will, can we have another vote on tax reform and redo/undo this in another Congress? Tax stuff like this goes over my head and I'm totally ignorant about it.

Well, at some stage in the future the Dems will take over the Presidency and have a majority in the House and Senate.  I think they will, like the GOP, keep parts of this existing tax plan (assuming some variation does pass and get signed into law) but change others in keeping with the Dem's priorities. So some of this plan will survive and others will be changed.

Our corporate tax was out of whack with the rest of world, and a high rate with lots of deductions is inefficient. Moving to a territorial system and a lower rate is defensible, if they broadened the base. Unfortunately I think it will take a future administration to correct for the big giveaway built into this reform.