Experts confirm gender identity is biological

[Idaho Conservative]

Gender is biological.  XX=female  XY=male.  Experts confirmed this long ago.

That's sex, not gender. They're two different things. And even with biological sex, there is more variety than that.

I don't buy into that gender is different from sex crap.[...]

Stopped reading right there. Who cares what you buy? Facts are facts, regardless of what you think or how you feel about them.

I care about what you think just as much as you care about what I think.  "Facts are facts, regardless of what you think or how you feel about them."  I agree.  I presented the real facts.  My facts came straight from a biology textbook.  Your "facts" came from Think Progress, a liberal website that tells the reader it is biased by just reading its name!

[Kamala]

Gender is biological.  XX=female  XY=male.  Experts confirmed this long ago.

That's sex, not gender. They're two different things. And even with biological sex, there is more variety than that.

I don't buy into that gender is different from sex crap.  They were the same until SJWs tried to rewrite the basics of biology.  you cant be both a boy and a girl.  Ok, I concede there are some chromosomal abnormalities, and I am very familiar with the science surrounding them.  Turner syndrome is where you just have one X Chromosome and no Y or 2nd X.  If you have this you are a girl but are infertile and suffer form a few other issues as well.  Also, their is Klinefelter syndrome which you are XXY.  People with this are still boys and actually still can have kids in some situations.  There are also conditions where a guy can have more than one Y Chromosome but this often goes undiagnosed.  If you are reading this and are a guy, you might be and XYY and not even know it.  These abnormalities are extremely rare and the rule goes, if you have a Y you are a guy, if not, you are a girl.  Hermaphodites also exist but it is impossible to produce both eggs and sperm.  The other set of genitals are usually underdeveloped.  If you have a Y chromosome, you can't get pregnant, period.  If you lack a Y chromosome, you cant fertilize an egg, period.  Sex and gender solely exist because of reproduction so to attribute anything else to them than that is ridiculous.  I hope you aren't an anti-science liberal. 
"Facts don't care about your feelings."-Ben Shapiro

I'm glad you added that Shapiro quote at the end or else I would've thought this is just some mindless, unsourced ramblings of a madman.

Using insults rather than facts shows you are losing the debate.  Also, only the last sentence came from Ben. 

This isn't a debate. This is literally you saying you disagree with scientific findings, bringing up some unsourced crap, and talking about how you feel about the issue.

[Idaho Conservative]

Gender is biological.  XX=female  XY=male.  Experts confirmed this long ago.

That's sex, not gender. They're two different things. And even with biological sex, there is more variety than that.

I don't buy into that gender is different from sex crap.  They were the same until SJWs tried to rewrite the basics of biology.  you cant be both a boy and a girl.  Ok, I concede there are some chromosomal abnormalities, and I am very familiar with the science surrounding them.  Turner syndrome is where you just have one X Chromosome and no Y or 2nd X.  If you have this you are a girl but are infertile and suffer form a few other issues as well.  Also, their is Klinefelter syndrome which you are XXY.  People with this are still boys and actually still can have kids in some situations.  There are also conditions where a guy can have more than one Y Chromosome but this often goes undiagnosed.  If you are reading this and are a guy, you might be and XYY and not even know it.  These abnormalities are extremely rare and the rule goes, if you have a Y you are a guy, if not, you are a girl.  Hermaphodites also exist but it is impossible to produce both eggs and sperm.  The other set of genitals are usually underdeveloped.  If you have a Y chromosome, you can't get pregnant, period.  If you lack a Y chromosome, you cant fertilize an egg, period.  Sex and gender solely exist because of reproduction so to attribute anything else to them than that is ridiculous.  I hope you aren't an anti-science liberal. 
"Facts don't care about your feelings."-Ben Shapiro

I'm glad you added that Shapiro quote at the end or else I would've thought this is just some mindless, unsourced ramblings of a madman.

Using insults rather than facts shows you are losing the debate.  Also, only the last sentence came from Ben. 

This isn't a debate. This is literally you saying you disagree with scientific findings, bringing up some unsourced crap, and talking about how you feel about the issue.

What specific facts that I stated do you deny? 

[Kamala]

Gender is biological.  XX=female  XY=male.  Experts confirmed this long ago.

That's sex, not gender. They're two different things. And even with biological sex, there is more variety than that.

I don't buy into that gender is different from sex crap.  They were the same until SJWs tried to rewrite the basics of biology.  you cant be both a boy and a girl.  Ok, I concede there are some chromosomal abnormalities, and I am very familiar with the science surrounding them.  Turner syndrome is where you just have one X Chromosome and no Y or 2nd X.  If you have this you are a girl but are infertile and suffer form a few other issues as well.  Also, their is Klinefelter syndrome which you are XXY.  People with this are still boys and actually still can have kids in some situations.  There are also conditions where a guy can have more than one Y Chromosome but this often goes undiagnosed.  If you are reading this and are a guy, you might be and XYY and not even know it.  These abnormalities are extremely rare and the rule goes, if you have a Y you are a guy, if not, you are a girl.  Hermaphodites also exist but it is impossible to produce both eggs and sperm.  The other set of genitals are usually underdeveloped.  If you have a Y chromosome, you can't get pregnant, period.  If you lack a Y chromosome, you cant fertilize an egg, period.  Sex and gender solely exist because of reproduction so to attribute anything else to them than that is ridiculous.  I hope you aren't an anti-science liberal. 
"Facts don't care about your feelings."-Ben Shapiro

I'm glad you added that Shapiro quote at the end or else I would've thought this is just some mindless, unsourced ramblings of a madman.

Using insults rather than facts shows you are losing the debate.  Also, only the last sentence came from Ben. 

This isn't a debate. This is literally you saying you disagree with scientific findings, bringing up some unsourced crap, and talking about how you feel about the issue.

What specific facts that I stated do you deny? 

There.

[Idaho Conservative]

Gender is biological.  XX=female  XY=male.  Experts confirmed this long ago.

That's sex, not gender. They're two different things. And even with biological sex, there is more variety than that.

I don't buy into that gender is different from sex crap.  They were the same until SJWs tried to rewrite the basics of biology.  you cant be both a boy and a girl.  Ok, I concede there are some chromosomal abnormalities, and I am very familiar with the science surrounding them.  Turner syndrome is where you just have one X Chromosome and no Y or 2nd X.  If you have this you are a girl but are infertile and suffer form a few other issues as well.  Also, their is Klinefelter syndrome which you are XXY.  People with this are still boys and actually still can have kids in some situations.  There are also conditions where a guy can have more than one Y Chromosome but this often goes undiagnosed.  If you are reading this and are a guy, you might be and XYY and not even know it.  These abnormalities are extremely rare and the rule goes, if you have a Y you are a guy, if not, you are a girl.  Hermaphodites also exist but it is impossible to produce both eggs and sperm.  The other set of genitals are usually underdeveloped.  If you have a Y chromosome, you can't get pregnant, period.  If you lack a Y chromosome, you cant fertilize an egg, period.  Sex and gender solely exist because of reproduction so to attribute anything else to them than that is ridiculous.  I hope you aren't an anti-science liberal. 
"Facts don't care about your feelings."-Ben Shapiro

I'm glad you added that Shapiro quote at the end or else I would've thought this is just some mindless, unsourced ramblings of a madman.

Using insults rather than facts shows you are losing the debate.  Also, only the last sentence came from Ben. 

This isn't a debate. This is literally you saying you disagree with scientific findings, bringing up some unsourced crap, and talking about how you feel about the issue.

What specific facts that I stated do you deny? 

There.

You didn't state anything specific because you know you would lose the debate.  Newsflash, you already have.

[Kamala]

Gender is biological.  XX=female  XY=male.  Experts confirmed this long ago.

That's sex, not gender. They're two different things. And even with biological sex, there is more variety than that.

I don't buy into that gender is different from sex crap.  They were the same until SJWs tried to rewrite the basics of biology.  you cant be both a boy and a girl.  Ok, I concede there are some chromosomal abnormalities, and I am very familiar with the science surrounding them.  Turner syndrome is where you just have one X Chromosome and no Y or 2nd X.  If you have this you are a girl but are infertile and suffer form a few other issues as well.  Also, their is Klinefelter syndrome which you are XXY.  People with this are still boys and actually still can have kids in some situations.  There are also conditions where a guy can have more than one Y Chromosome but this often goes undiagnosed.  If you are reading this and are a guy, you might be and XYY and not even know it.  These abnormalities are extremely rare and the rule goes, if you have a Y you are a guy, if not, you are a girl.  Hermaphodites also exist but it is impossible to produce both eggs and sperm.  The other set of genitals are usually underdeveloped.  If you have a Y chromosome, you can't get pregnant, period.  If you lack a Y chromosome, you cant fertilize an egg, period.  Sex and gender solely exist because of reproduction so to attribute anything else to them than that is ridiculous.  I hope you aren't an anti-science liberal. 
"Facts don't care about your feelings."-Ben Shapiro

I'm glad you added that Shapiro quote at the end or else I would've thought this is just some mindless, unsourced ramblings of a madman.

Using insults rather than facts shows you are losing the debate.  Also, only the last sentence came from Ben. 

This isn't a debate. This is literally you saying you disagree with scientific findings, bringing up some unsourced crap, and talking about how you feel about the issue.

What specific facts that I stated do you deny? 

There.

You didn't state anything specific because you know you would lose the debate.  Newsflash, you already have.

I bolded your incorrect "facts"/opinions, you illiterate troglodytic mouthbreather.

[Idaho Conservative]

Gender is biological.  XX=female  XY=male.  Experts confirmed this long ago.

That's sex, not gender. They're two different things. And even with biological sex, there is more variety than that.

I don't buy into that gender is different from sex crap.  They were the same until SJWs tried to rewrite the basics of biology.  you cant be both a boy and a girl.  Ok, I concede there are some chromosomal abnormalities, and I am very familiar with the science surrounding them.  Turner syndrome is where you just have one X Chromosome and no Y or 2nd X.  If you have this you are a girl but are infertile and suffer form a few other issues as well.  Also, their is Klinefelter syndrome which you are XXY.  People with this are still boys and actually still can have kids in some situations.  There are also conditions where a guy can have more than one Y Chromosome but this often goes undiagnosed.  If you are reading this and are a guy, you might be and XYY and not even know it.  These abnormalities are extremely rare and the rule goes, if you have a Y you are a guy, if not, you are a girl.  Hermaphodites also exist but it is impossible to produce both eggs and sperm.  The other set of genitals are usually underdeveloped.  If you have a Y chromosome, you can't get pregnant, period.  If you lack a Y chromosome, you cant fertilize an egg, period.  Sex and gender solely exist because of reproduction so to attribute anything else to them than that is ridiculous.  I hope you aren't an anti-science liberal. 
"Facts don't care about your feelings."-Ben Shapiro

I'm glad you added that Shapiro quote at the end or else I would've thought this is just some mindless, unsourced ramblings of a madman.

Using insults rather than facts shows you are losing the debate.  Also, only the last sentence came from Ben. 

This isn't a debate. This is literally you saying you disagree with scientific findings, bringing up some unsourced crap, and talking about how you feel about the issue.

What specific facts that I stated do you deny? 

There.

You didn't state anything specific because you know you would lose the debate.  Newsflash, you already have.

I bolded your incorrect "facts"/opinions, you illiterate troglodytic mouthbreather.

Again, you resort to insults because you have no real argument.  As for the first thing you highlighted, that was my opinion, of which you disagree.  You didn't contest any of the facts I used to form that opinion.  Second, you contest the fact that gender exists because of reproduction.  It absolutely does.  What other purpose would a man have a penis and a woman have a vagina?  Sure, certain people may be more masculine and feminine than others, but that doesn't make them the other gender.  Take "Caitlyn" Jenner.  This "woman" has XY chromosomes in every one of "her" cells and has a penis.  What makes him a girl other than his assertion he is one?  In reality, he is just a feminine man that takes hormones and wears girl clothing and goes be she/her.  I am not contesting any of that.  I am simply saying he is not a girl.   What  if I identify as a tree?  There is nothing that makes me a tree other than my word.  What you feel inside your head does not override biological and physical reality.   I find it amazing you can only highlight words I write and use insults without debating any of my actual points.

[Kamala]

Since you're so obsessed with "winning debates," here are ten responses.

1. I resort to insults because you're as dumb as a bag of rocks.

2. You f[inks]ing asked me "What specific facts that I stated do you deny?" to which I bolded what I disagreed with you on.

3. You cited some 9th grade biology bullsh[inks] about gene abnormalities which is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

4. Your usage of male pronouns in reference to Caitlyn Jenner is a transphobic canard.

5. Having a penis/vagina =/= gender. That's sex. Read a book or something.

6. Why the f[inks] does it matter to you what Jenner chooses to identify as?

7. Why the f[inks] do you think that YOU get to decide what Jenner and other trans people are allowed to identify as?

8. The whole "Why can't I identify as a tree????1?1" thing is not only beyond stupid, it completely belittles the struggles that trans people have to deal with, both internally and societally.
     a. If you can't the difference between a tree and a woman, you really are as dumb as I say you are.
     b. There are things which make Caitlyn Jenner a woman other than her word: her transitioning, her psychological identification as a woman,
     c. Once again, I'd like to repeat that you are incredibly stupid.

9. The article in the OP literally explain how what one feels inside one's head IS biology.

10. These are medical experts at the Endocrine Society who are stating this, officially, as a legitimate organization. I think it's safe to say that they better understand the issue and can actually provide facts as opposed to some random person posting their opinion on the internet.

[JA]

Gender is biological.  XX=female  XY=male.  Experts confirmed this long ago.

That's sex, not gender. They're two different things. And even with biological sex, there is more variety than that.

I don't buy into that gender is different from sex crap.  They were the same until SJWs tried to rewrite the basics of biology.  you cant be both a boy and a girl.  Ok, I concede there are some chromosomal abnormalities, and I am very familiar with the science surrounding them.  Turner syndrome is where you just have one X Chromosome and no Y or 2nd X.  If you have this you are a girl but are infertile and suffer form a few other issues as well.  Also, their is Klinefelter syndrome which you are XXY.  People with this are still boys and actually still can have kids in some situations.  There are also conditions where a guy can have more than one Y Chromosome but this often goes undiagnosed.  If you are reading this and are a guy, you might be and XYY and not even know it.  These abnormalities are extremely rare and the rule goes, if you have a Y you are a guy, if not, you are a girl.  Hermaphodites also exist but it is impossible to produce both eggs and sperm.  The other set of genitals are usually underdeveloped.  If you have a Y chromosome, you can't get pregnant, period.  If you lack a Y chromosome, you cant fertilize an egg, period.  Sex and gender solely exist because of reproduction so to attribute anything else to them than that is ridiculous.  I hope you aren't an anti-science liberal.  
"Facts don't care about your feelings."-Ben Shapiro

I'm glad you added that Shapiro quote at the end or else I would've thought this is just some mindless, unsourced ramblings of a madman.

Using insults rather than facts shows you are losing the debate.  Also, only the last sentence came from Ben.  

This isn't a debate. This is literally you saying you disagree with scientific findings, bringing up some unsourced crap, and talking about how you feel about the issue.

What specific facts that I stated do you deny?  

There.

You didn't state anything specific because you know you would lose the debate.  Newsflash, you already have.

I bolded your incorrect "facts"/opinions, you illiterate troglodytic mouthbreather.

Again, you resort to insults because you have no real argument.  As for the first thing you highlighted, that was my opinion, of which you disagree.  You didn't contest any of the facts I used to form that opinion.  Second, you contest the fact that gender exists because of reproduction.  It absolutely does.  What other purpose would a man have a penis and a woman have a vagina?  Sure, certain people may be more masculine and feminine than others, but that doesn't make them the other gender.  Take "Caitlyn" Jenner.  This "woman" has XY chromosomes in every one of "her" cells and has a penis.  What makes him a girl other than his assertion he is one?  In reality, he is just a feminine man that takes hormones and wears girl clothing and goes be she/her.  I am not contesting any of that.  I am simply saying he is not a girl.   What  if I identify as a tree?  There is nothing that makes me a tree other than my word.  What you feel inside your head does not override biological and physical reality.   I find it amazing you can only highlight words I write and use insults without debating any of my actual points.

Except there is no biological or physical reality of boy, girl, man, or woman. There is only male and female (and the rare other sexes). Male and female are biological and physical realities because they're mammals' method of sexual reproduction via sexual complementarity. Nobody is contesting the existence of a penis equalling a male and a vagina equalling a female, nor the extent to which one's sex influences and is influenced by hormones and physiology.

Your problem is that you mistakenly conflate male with boy/man and female with girl/woman. Gender is a social construct because it varies significantly by culture. In traditional Albanian culture, for example, there existed a third gender into which a woman could transform if she was the sole inheritor of her family's property or for other financial reasons. That gender existed because women were forbidden from inheriting property, so they had to renounce being a woman and become a third gender. A similar arrangement existed in Afghanistan where pre-pubescent Afghan girls could engage in public activities to fulfill particular responsibilities that otherwise would've been restricted to boys; to acquire that privilege, they had to become the third gender. Among the Bugis in Indonesia, there are five genders: cis-man, cis-woman, trans-man, trans-woman, and agender. In Papua New Guinea there's a tribe where the males perform domestic responsibilities, engage in crafts, wear elaborate and decorated clothing, and the females fight, farm, and so on. The purpose of these gender constructs was to fulfill social and economic needs of that society. Even in Western culture, historically, men wore high heels, pink, wigs, and makeup; men only abandoned high heels after it was adopted by women.

When a person is transgender, it simply means that they don't identify with the socially imposed, socially constructed gender which they were given simply because of their genitals. A person born with a penis may have more feminine traits than a person born with a vagina, yet more masculine behavior will be expected of the person with a penis and they may face social shaming for failure to live in accordance with those expectations. Gender identity issues arise not in nature, but because of society's social construction of gender; how a person feels and sees themselves comes into conflict with how others see them, treat them, and what they expect of them. If the conflict is severe enough, they may choose to transition. What the results of the study in the OP demonstrate is that your behavior, such as levels of masculinity and feminity, are genetically determined and you don't simply choose to act more masculine or feminine; it's truly who you are. It's people like you who want to force expectations of stereotyped behavior upon others and shame them for not conforming that cause the very existence of gender identity issues.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I truly wonder how people like BWP Conservative cope when they are taught models that contradict what they learn in lower years. That's how science works. Complaints about "redefining" gender is largely irrelevant because scientists have a need to be precise about their language - words that would be bandied out in everyday life, like "death" or "soil" need to be precisely defined depending on the context. This is because science is a discipline that mandates precision, while the English language is rather looser in its definitions.

In fact, I think the main problem with "gender" is that the concept is itself also a bit wobbly and used to define several different aspects of distinguishing male and female behaviour.

[IceAgeComing]

There's also the fact that the XX=Female XY=Male has been known to be an incredibly simplified way of looking at things since at least the mid 70s - although generally XX Males or XY Females are incredibly rare.  The study in the OP seems to have strong evidence to support the gendered brains theory that's been around for a few years; but we can't be 100% because one study says something; we'll have to wait and see if these conclusions are supported by later studies.

As well as the fact that there are countless modern studies proving what I'd argue the more important issue than the OP is: there are countless modern studies that prove that transitioning is generally very effective and makes trans people healthier and happier - indeed, there have been a fair few studies that have shown that there are no significant differences between the physical and mental health of trans people post-transition when compared to cis people, which isn't the case for trans people pre-transition.  Even if you take the essentialist position on gender stuff; the science on trans healthcare for an incredibly long time has been that transition is the right way to correct gender dysphoria - and indeed, the only way that actually works.

Also its hardly a new thing created by the SJW CONSPIRACY or whatever - and those who think it is ought to look up people like Sophie Wilson, one of the most important people in tech history, or Angela Morley.  I'm not even going to dignify the "WHY CAN'T I BE A TREE!!!!" thing with a response since quite frankly, it doesn't need one as anyone with a brain should see the stupidity of that argument and its an incredibly intellectually dishonest way to approach the issue.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

... The medical test is asking people how they feel. Depression has a biological basis, but there is no clinical test to tell objectively if someone has depression or not.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

So does this settle that the debate is about inherent qualities of a person and not some fanciful flight of social construction or free will?

[muon2]

Your problem is that you mistakenly conflate male with boy/man and female with girl/woman. Gender is a social construct because it varies significantly by culture. In traditional Albanian culture, for example, there existed a third gender into which a woman could transform if she was the sole inheritor of her family's property or for other financial reasons. That gender existed because women were forbidden from inheriting property, so they had to renounce being a woman and become a third gender. A similar arrangement existed in Afghanistan where pre-pubescent Afghan girls could engage in public activities to fulfill particular responsibilities that otherwise would've been restricted to boys; to acquire that privilege, they had to become the third gender. Among the Bugis in Indonesia, there are five genders: cis-man, cis-woman, trans-man, trans-woman, and agender. In Papua New Guinea there's a tribe where the males perform domestic responsibilities, engage in crafts, wear elaborate and decorated clothing, and the females fight, farm, and so on. The purpose of these gender constructs was to fulfill social and economic needs of that society. Even in Western culture, historically, men wore high heels, pink, wigs, and makeup; men only abandoned high heels after it was adopted by women.

I understand what you are saying, but I think it can be the basis for the sex/gender language confusion that people have, particularly those of my age.

As I was in school in the 1960's and 1970's the great debate in psychology was nature vs. nurture. That is were behaviors driven primarily either by our biology or the demands of society. This debate spilled over into politics at times. In general one could even label nature as the right-leaning position and nurture as the left-leaning position. By the late 70's nurture had pretty much won out on all sides.

In the last thirty years the biological basis for behavior has come to the fore again. Among the areas where that's been important is in understanding the nature of homosexuality. As I understand current research it seems less tied to any specific gene but more tied to gene expression and hormonal impact on the fetal brain. This is clearly a nature-based position to describe behavior.

What I read in your quote is an appeal to a nurture-based view. I'm not saying that the sociology you describe is incorrect. On the contrary it matches what I learned in my college sociology class. But I think what the Endocrine Society and similar groups are saying is that there is a nature-based approach to gender vs. sex.

As I would describe the distinction, sex reflects the body's expression as male or female, but gender reflects the brain's expression of male or female. In particular, studies like that in the OP cite hormonal effects that drive transsexuality, which argues for a nature-based definition of the difference between sex and gender. I also think that by taking the view of gender as having a significant biological basis rather than a primarily sociological basis, it helps avoid people dropping back into the polarization of the nature vs nurture debate.

[TJ in Oregon]

Gender, as the term is used colloquially, is a philosophical concept, as is personhood. While scientific findings can illuminate whether certain phenomena are consistent with a definition, the definitions themselves cannot be determined by scientific inquiry.

[Idaho Conservative]

... The medical test is asking people how they feel. Depression has a biological basis, but there is no clinical test to tell objectively if someone has depression or not.

I like your comparison.  Yes depression is like transgenderism.  It is real and it is considered a mental illness, just like transgenderism is a mental illness.   To treat depression, do you make the word around the depressed person all gloomy so it matches their mental outlook?  Of course not!  You try to treat their depression.  Same with transgenderism.  You shouldn't try to cut up and drug their body to make it look more like the gender they imagine, you try to cure the transgenderism itself and make them content with the body they've got.  My message to trans people is, you are perfect just the way you are!  Your body is the way its supposed to be!  You just need to change how you view it.  That is the true, inspiring message trans people need to hear. 

[JA]

Since you're so obsessed with "winning debates," here are ten responses.

1. I resort to insults because you're as dumb as a bag of rocks.

2. You f[inks]ing asked me "What specific facts that I stated do you deny?" to which I bolded what I disagreed with you on.

3. You cited some 9th grade biology bullsh[inks] about gene abnormalities which is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

4. Your usage of male pronouns in reference to Caitlyn Jenner is a transphobic canard.

5. Having a penis/vagina =/= gender. That's sex. Read a book or something.

6. Why the f[inks] does it matter to you what Jenner chooses to identify as?

7. Why the f[inks] do you think that YOU get to decide what Jenner and other trans people are allowed to identify as?

8. The whole "Why can't I identify as a tree????1?1" thing is not only beyond stupid, it completely belittles the struggles that trans people have to deal with, both internally and societally.
     a. If you can't the difference between a tree and a woman, you really are as dumb as I say you are.
     b. There are things which make Caitlyn Jenner a woman other than her word: her transitioning, her psychological identification as a woman,
     c. Once again, I'd like to repeat that you are incredibly stupid.

9. The article in the OP literally explain how what one feels inside one's head IS biology.

10. These are medical experts at the Endocrine Society who are stating this, officially, as a legitimate organization. I think it's safe to say that they better understand the issue and can actually provide facts as opposed to some random person posting their opinion on the internet.

1. I am not dumb.  My SAT score puts me in the 90th percentile.  My IQ is over 140.

Go back to 4chan or Reddit or whatever autistic corner of the internet from whence you came.

[America Needs R'hllor]

... The medical test is asking people how they feel. Depression has a biological basis, but there is no clinical test to tell objectively if someone has depression or not.

I like your comparison.  Yes depression is like transgenderism.  It is real and it is considered a mental illness, just like transgenderism is a mental illness.   To treat depression, do you make the word around the depressed person all gloomy so it matches their mental outlook?  Of course not!  You try to treat their depression.  Same with transgenderism.  You shouldn't try to cut up and drug their body to make it look more like the gender they imagine, you try to cure the transgenderism itself and make them content with the body they've got.  My message to trans people is, you are perfect just the way you are!  Your body is the way its supposed to be!  You just need to change how you view it.  That is the true, inspiring message trans people need to hear. 

I bet you were saying the same thing about homosexuals a few years ago.

[MasterJedi]

... The medical test is asking people how they feel. Depression has a biological basis, but there is no clinical test to tell objectively if someone has depression or not.

I like your comparison.  Yes depression is like transgenderism.  It is real and it is considered a mental illness, just like transgenderism is a mental illness.   To treat depression, do you make the word around the depressed person all gloomy so it matches their mental outlook?  Of course not!  You try to treat their depression.  Same with transgenderism.  You shouldn't try to cut up and drug their body to make it look more like the gender they imagine, you try to cure the transgenderism itself and make them content with the body they've got.  My message to trans people is, you are perfect just the way you are!  Your body is the way its supposed to be!  You just need to change how you view it.  That is the true, inspiring message trans people need to hear. 

I bet you were saying the same thing about homosexuals a few years ago.

Guaranteed he probably still feels that way now. Many conservatives I know do, they just hide it well because they'd be shunned by general society these days.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

... The medical test is asking people how they feel. Depression has a biological basis, but there is no clinical test to tell objectively if someone has depression or not.

I like your comparison.  Yes depression is like transgenderism.  It is real and it is considered a mental illness, just like transgenderism is a mental illness.   To treat depression, do you make the word around the depressed person all gloomy so it matches their mental outlook?  Of course not!  You try to treat their depression.  Same with transgenderism.  You shouldn't try to cut up and drug their body to make it look more like the gender they imagine, you try to cure the transgenderism itself and make them content with the body they've got.  My message to trans people is, you are perfect just the way you are!  Your body is the way its supposed to be!  You just need to change how you view it.  That is the true, inspiring message trans people need to hear.  

The ideal comparison - the mental illness at the root of it all - is gender dysphoria, and psychologists have a pretty good way of treating it. They weren't happy about it yeah, and spent ages trying to find alternative workarounds (even, hilariously, hormone injections for the born gender, which went about as well as you'd think!).

I think your comment betrays a misunderstanding of how psychiatry works. These people are not magicians who can change the composition of your brain with a wave of the wand. A lot of what therapists teach their patients is essentially coping mechanisms that can route certian tendencies into less self-destructive pathways. Gender dysphoria is undoubtedly a condition that untreated self-destructive behaviour: anxiety, isolation, self-harm etc. Any psychiatrist with a patient like that wants primarily to guide them towards less destructive ends.

And here we can easily distinguish from similar phenomena like Body dysmorphic disorder and anorexia nervosa. In those diseases the goal is normally open-ended. A person with anorexia will never be thin enogh; a person with BDD who spends hours fixing their appearance will not be satiated; people who become addicted to plastic surgery never think they are beautiful. In those cases, a shrink will be wrong to recommend their patients chase these self-destructive pathways.

By contrast gender transition is not an inherently self-destructive pathway, but a fairly well-studied process with a discrete end and - most importantly - alleviates symptoms of GD. For a shrink this is success. They don't want you to deny the reality of your own thoughts in, in other words. Your suggestion would be the equivalent of saying "Be more happy! Stop thinking bad thoughts!" to every depressive.

[emailking]

BWP, is your issue just with the words people are using, or does it go further than that? Even if you disagree with their reasoning, should trans people be allowed to take hormones, have surgery, use the bathroom they're more comfortable with, etc? If you knew someone trans, would you call them by the name and pronouns they preferred? Because it's one thing to argue about definitions, but offhand those are the concrete things that I think would affect them the most.

[IceAgeComing]

I like your comparison.  Yes depression is like transgenderism.  It is real and it is considered a mental illness, just like transgenderism is a mental illness.   To treat depression, do you make the word around the depressed person all gloomy so it matches their mental outlook?  Of course not!  You try to treat their depression.  Same with transgenderism.  You shouldn't try to cut up and drug their body to make it look more like the gender they imagine, you try to cure the transgenderism itself and make them content with the body they've got.  My message to trans people is, you are perfect just the way you are!  Your body is the way its supposed to be!  You just need to change how you view it.  That is the true, inspiring message trans people need to hear. 

For someone that claims to have an IQ of 140 (firstly hahahahahahaha secondly IQ isn't actually a particularly useful test for... anything, really) this is an incredibly stupid way of examining the problem.

To build on Crabcake's post above (and mine from earlier that you elected to ignore for some reason), the body of evidence proves that the only way to treat gender dysphoria is transitioning.  To cite only a few; there was a 2013 study in Canada that showed that 27% of the group of trans people had had not begun transitioning yet had attempted suicide; which dramatically fell to 1% of those that had completed transitioning. There was another American study of 50 trans women who'd received bottom surgery that found no significant difference in their mental or physical health from control samples of cis women.  And there was also a 2010 meta-analysis of 28 earlier studies which found that the vast majority of trans people showed significant improvement in psychiatric health; to the point where they concluded that the mental health of trans people after transitioning was broadly similar to that on the general population and much lower than pre-transition trans people.

I hate medicalising the whole issue because I don't see it as being a medical issue but one of basic rights, but the facts are very clear that transitioning works, and is the only way that does when dealing with gender dysphoria.  All of the other things that they've historically tried failed; including the joke of trying to treat it with the wrong hormones which actually only worsened the problem significantly.  But I mean, if your feelings matter more than the facts do; feel free to carry on believing that - however, using science when all of the science is against you is the height of ignorance.

[Idaho Conservative]

BWP, is your issue just with the words people are using, or does it go further than that? Even if you disagree with their reasoning, should trans people be allowed to take hormones, have surgery, use the bathroom they're more comfortable with, etc? If you knew someone trans, would you call them by the name and pronouns they preferred? Because it's one thing to argue about definitions, but offhand those are the concrete things that I think would affect them the most.

My issue is that transgenderism is a mental illness and I personally feel that people should not mutilate their bodies to make themselves look more like the opposite sex.    That said, I am a libertarian.  If you want to call yourself xe, do hormonal therapy, or gender surgary, go ahead.  I don't have a right to stop you.  As for bathrooms, each bussiness owner should decide what bathroom policy works best for his bussiness.  The government should not pass bathroom bills that force bussinesses to have anti or pro transgender policies.  What trans people don't have a right to do is make me use a specific pronoun or pay for their surgary.    Personally, my views are socially conservative when it comes to gender, sexuality, and drugs, however, I want little government involement in those issues.  Transgenders have a right to ask people to use any pronoun they prefer.  That doesn't mean that everyone will use that pronoun.

[IceAgeComing]

My issue is that transgenderism is a mental illness and I personally feel that people should not mutilate their bodies to make themselves look more like the opposite sex.[...]

"Facts don't care about your feelings."

-Ben Shapiro

[Idaho Conservative]

My issue is that transgenderism is a mental illness and I personally feel that people should not mutilate their bodies to make themselves look more like the opposite sex.[...]

"Facts don't care about your feelings."
-Ben Shapiro

And Ben Shapiro would agree with the facts I presented and opposes transgenderism