THE REAL FHTAGN: Actual Positions, Actual Answers

[fhtagn]

[Adam Griffin]

What's your goal in this, Adam? To convince Fthagn supporters that they should vote Truman since both will govern similarly? Even if that's true, it still makes sense to back the incumbent (Fthagn) - if switching incumbents will cause little to no change, then you may as well keep the current incumbent. No need for going through the process of transitioning the government if it will have no long term benefit.

I just want people to know the truth. I ran as a bad bitch during my time in the game and was honest with people about it (see Yankee's quote in my sig for how I managed to become President). I don't like it when others hide their true selves to advance their careers - this has always been a constant: from Napoleon and Tmth all the way to DFW and fhtagn.

To borrow a phrase from 2012-2013, "all of these candidates are great [except one]". Vote for Lumine, vote for Truman, or vote for anybody else who's running. I'm not telling people what to do other than to consider voting what their actual ideology tells them is right. When somebody pretends to be all things to all people and conveniently switches ideology for political gain (something even DFW didn't actually do), nobody knows what they'll truly be getting. So it only makes sense to vote for the candidate that most accurately aligns with your beliefs and has stood for them consistently.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

Adam can you find an example of me doing something in office I don't believe in IRL? lol

[fhtagn]

Except you haven't even proved your point. You're not showing people things they didn't already know about me. You're just mindlessly ranting and making some awful attempt at splitting the Federalist vote.

Don't pretend it has anything to do with ideology when it's painfully obvious what you're really doing. You never cared about ideology and anyone with any shred of common sense can see that.

I'm not sure what I ever did to trigger you so bad, but you seriously need to find a better hobby or something, because this is pathetic.

[Mr. Reactionary]

So Adam Griffin wants bedroom police? This attempt at an attack is comical. Oh noz a libertarian!!!! The federalist party never tolerates small government libertarians.

[Adam Griffin]

You never cared about ideology

I'm dead

[Poirot]

What's your goal in this, Adam? To convince Fthagn supporters that they should vote Truman since both will govern similarly? Even if that's true, it still makes sense to back the incumbent (Fthagn) - if switching incumbents will cause little to no change, then you may as well keep the current incumbent. No need for going through the process of transitioning the government if it will have no long term benefit.

By using the let's keep the incumbent philosophy you are approving of the way the incumbent was appointed to the job by resignations and nomination to give someone the incumbency advantage and how they made a farce of democracy.

[fhtagn]

By using the let's keep the incumbent philosophy you are approving of the way the incumbent was appointed to the job by resignations and nomination to give someone the incumbency advantage and how they made a farce of democracy.

Funny, I don't see you trashing the Senate members who unanimously confirmed me for VP

An excellent choice by the President. I see no issues with this appointment, and I look forward to a speedy confirmation!

I think the nominee is eminently qualified, and I will vote to confirm.

fhtagn has both my full support and vote.

Additionally, the nominee is exceptionally qualified. Among other governmental positions that she has held, she has served in the Atlasian House of Representatives and has served as the Speaker of the Southern Chamber of Delegates.

Would it kill you to show a bit of consistency?

[Leinad]

Haha, Adam is at it again with his assertion that any Federalist who is liberal/moderate/libertarian on social issues is "faking."

Anyway, there's not much in fhtagn's social policy I disagree with. I guess I can think of two things, one of them (the death penalty) she's actually slightly to the right of me on. And we can all get behind the environment and equal rights. Not in the same way, but no one thinks those are bad things to support. So the idea that she's radically to the left of mainstream Federalists is both confusing and downright hilarious.

Also: why does this not say "Deeply Disturbing?" You're letting us down, Adam...

[Associate Justice PiT]

Literally the only viable defense (in my own opinion, of course) that the Feds can mount for the nomination of fhtagn is "well she may be a raging left-winger, but she's willing to play something different on TV (maybe)!".

Which may work - who am I to say these days? - but I arguably find the most distressing part of this to be the fact that people like Yankee and PiT have completely abdicated their once-conservative principles and are just willing to chase whatever ideology or lack thereof in the pursuit of victory. I was never willing to cross the ideological hemispheres to elect a President who blatantly didn't agree with me on most core issues, but maybe I'm just old fashioned (and "irrelevant"!).

If anything PiT has gotten more Conservative not less. I remember when he was a raging libertarian with yellow avatar.

     Which I think is a big part of why I see nothing all that incredible about fhtagn's trajectory. Other than that I started on the right in economics and she started on the left, it's very similar to my own; we have proceeded by discarding previously inviolable dogmas and gradually opening up to conservative ideas on what constitutes good government. Neither one of us is exactly described by the word "conservative", but the line of influence is there (much more strongly in my case as it happens).

PiT, if you or anybody else had went from flaming leftist to Confederate apologizer in a matter of weeks after switching parties - all the while continuing to post very left-wing commentary on the forum - I'd be asking the same questions (unless you were like 14 years old or something).

Again, I - really more than anybody else! - understand the natural progression of people changing ideology. How many of your old voters found their way to Labor over the years? A lot! FFS, Hagrid just registered as Labor the other day!

I probably saw more defections from one hemisphere to the other that benefited me at the time than anybody else in the game ever. But they didn't abruptly switch from Fed to Lab (though plenty back in the day did switch from Lab to Fed out of spite - but at least they were honest about it) and then pretend to be conservative, and even if there was one or two who did, they didn't get the Labor Party's endorsement in the next election.

     Tell me, have you ever considered why you have seen so many defections to your camp? It should be easy for you to understand that since you know the natural progression of people changing ideology so well. Puzzle me that and I can tell you why this instance flows the other way. (BTW, if your answer is going to be something hackish like "the left is the path of truth and justice!", then spare me it.)

[windjammer]

Literally the only viable defense (in my own opinion, of course) that the Feds can mount for the nomination of fhtagn is "well she may be a raging left-winger, but she's willing to play something different on TV (maybe)!".

Which may work - who am I to say these days? - but I arguably find the most distressing part of this to be the fact that people like Yankee and PiT have completely abdicated their once-conservative principles and are just willing to chase whatever ideology or lack thereof in the pursuit of victory. I was never willing to cross the ideological hemispheres to elect a President who blatantly didn't agree with me on most core issues, but maybe I'm just old fashioned (and "irrelevant"!).

If anything PiT has gotten more Conservative not less. I remember when he was a raging libertarian with yellow avatar.

     Which I think is a big part of why I see nothing all that incredible about fhtagn's trajectory. Other than that I started on the right in economics and she started on the left, it's very similar to my own; we have proceeded by discarding previously inviolable dogmas and gradually opening up to conservative ideas on what constitutes good government. Neither one of us is exactly described by the word "conservative", but the line of influence is there (much more strongly in my case as it happens).

PiT, if you or anybody else had went from flaming leftist to Confederate apologizer in a matter of weeks after switching parties - all the while continuing to post very left-wing commentary on the forum - I'd be asking the same questions (unless you were like 14 years old or something).

Again, I - really more than anybody else! - understand the natural progression of people changing ideology. How many of your old voters found their way to Labor over the years? A lot! FFS, Hagrid just registered as Labor the other day!

I probably saw more defections from one hemisphere to the other that benefited me at the time than anybody else in the game ever. But they didn't abruptly switch from Fed to Lab (though plenty back in the day did switch from Lab to Fed out of spite - but at least they were honest about it) and then pretend to be conservative, and even if there was one or two who did, they didn't get the Labor Party's endorsement in the next election.

     Tell me, have you ever considered why you have seen so many defections to your camp? It should be easy for you to understand that since you know the natural progression of people changing ideology so well. Puzzle me that and I can tell you why this instance flows the other way. (BTW, if your answer is going to be something hackish like "the left is the path of truth and justice!", then spare me it.)

The forum is left leaning and young. That means these teenagers, who dont have a 100% developed ideology, are influenced by the other posters who are most of them really left leaning, so this has a big impact on their political views, so that explains their leftwing shift.

[ZuWo]

If the goal of this thread is to rally the Federalist base even more strongly behind Fhtagn/PiT, it's certainly succeeding.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Literally the only viable defense (in my own opinion, of course) that the Feds can mount for the nomination of fhtagn is "well she may be a raging left-winger, but she's willing to play something different on TV (maybe)!".

Which may work - who am I to say these days? - but I arguably find the most distressing part of this to be the fact that people like Yankee and PiT have completely abdicated their once-conservative principles and are just willing to chase whatever ideology or lack thereof in the pursuit of victory. I was never willing to cross the ideological hemispheres to elect a President who blatantly didn't agree with me on most core issues, but maybe I'm just old fashioned (and "irrelevant"!).

If anything PiT has gotten more Conservative not less. I remember when he was a raging libertarian with yellow avatar.

     Which I think is a big part of why I see nothing all that incredible about fhtagn's trajectory. Other than that I started on the right in economics and she started on the left, it's very similar to my own; we have proceeded by discarding previously inviolable dogmas and gradually opening up to conservative ideas on what constitutes good government. Neither one of us is exactly described by the word "conservative", but the line of influence is there (much more strongly in my case as it happens).

PiT, if you or anybody else had went from flaming leftist to Confederate apologizer in a matter of weeks after switching parties - all the while continuing to post very left-wing commentary on the forum - I'd be asking the same questions (unless you were like 14 years old or something).

Again, I - really more than anybody else! - understand the natural progression of people changing ideology. How many of your old voters found their way to Labor over the years? A lot! FFS, Hagrid just registered as Labor the other day!

I probably saw more defections from one hemisphere to the other that benefited me at the time than anybody else in the game ever. But they didn't abruptly switch from Fed to Lab (though plenty back in the day did switch from Lab to Fed out of spite - but at least they were honest about it) and then pretend to be conservative, and even if there was one or two who did, they didn't get the Labor Party's endorsement in the next election.

     Tell me, have you ever considered why you have seen so many defections to your camp? It should be easy for you to understand that since you know the natural progression of people changing ideology so well. Puzzle me that and I can tell you why this instance flows the other way. (BTW, if your answer is going to be something hackish like "the left is the path of truth and justice!", then spare me it.)

The forum is left leaning and young. That means these teenagers, who dont have a 100% developed ideology, are influenced by the other posters who are most of them really left leaning, so this has a big impact on their political views, so that explains their leftwing shift.

     That is exactly what I was going for, much appreciated. Quite a few people change quickly within weeks of joining the forum. Consider that 1) fhtagn started dealing substantially with right-wingers on the forum when she had previously avoided such things and that 2) she is an INTJ and we are emotional late-bloomers such that substantial ideological shifts in our 20s is not an unlikely occurrence. I include myself; I became an anarcho-capitalist and then swore it off well past the age that most of these teens do this. Once again there is a clear parallel in development here; the person in question started off with an extremist ideology and transitioned away from it in favor of a more practical and more moderate ideology.

     Of course I don't know for sure what anyone else is thinking, but my point is that this isn't nearly as improbable a feat as Griffin implies, and it rings true with my own real experience of ideological development (an experience that differs greatly from the norm on account of me differing greatly from the norm).

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

What's your goal in this, Adam? To convince Fthagn supporters that they should vote Truman since both will govern similarly? Even if that's true, it still makes sense to back the incumbent (Fthagn) - if switching incumbents will cause little to no change, then you may as well keep the current incumbent. No need for going through the process of transitioning the government if it will have no long term benefit.

By using the let's keep the incumbent philosophy you are approving of the way the incumbent was appointed to the job by resignations and nomination to give someone the incumbency advantage and how they made a farce of democracy.

I do not like the resignation scheme here, but I don't blame Fthagn for the actions of DFW and Goldwater. Fthagn should be judged based on her performance as president and her long record of service to Atlasia, and not based on her being President because of 2 resignations.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What's your goal in this, Adam? To convince Fthagn supporters that they should vote Truman since both will govern similarly? Even if that's true, it still makes sense to back the incumbent (Fthagn) - if switching incumbents will cause little to no change, then you may as well keep the current incumbent. No need for going through the process of transitioning the government if it will have no long term benefit.

By using the let's keep the incumbent philosophy you are approving of the way the incumbent was appointed to the job by resignations and nomination to give someone the incumbency advantage and how they made a farce of democracy.

I do not like the resignation scheme here, but I don't blame Fthagn for the actions of DFW and Goldwater. Fthagn should be judged based on her performance as president and her long record of service to Atlasia, and not based on her being President because of 2 resignations.

This is a critical point. She is also a far more competent Executive then either of her two predecessors and even myself (though mostly because of my damn RL job). The minute she took office, important stuff started getting done. The FRR is before Congress, the budget Process Committee is underway and even on the NK issue, where Fhtagn inherited a disaster from her predecessor, she not only got Snowguy active (he wasn't before) both were laser focused while everyone shut their eyes and buried their heads in the sand, including most of the Senate it seems and House. They fought it out in a tough negotiation and delivered the least bad outcome possible.

Despite her being rather new, she is one of the best, and most competent Presidents we have had in a long, long time. Her Vice President is active, her cabinet is completely active and the GM is also active and making life exceedingly hell for her (which is his job).

Dfw is not going to be on the ballot in October, Goldwater is not going to be on the ballot in October. Fhtagn is going to be on the ballot in October and so is Vice President PiT, who is the best Vice President since Cincinnatus, three years ago. And frankly she has been doing a hell of a damn good job and should be reelected based on that.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Literally the only viable defense (in my own opinion, of course) that the Feds can mount for the nomination of fhtagn is "well she may be a raging left-winger, but she's willing to play something different on TV (maybe)!".

Which may work - who am I to say these days? - but I arguably find the most distressing part of this to be the fact that people like Yankee and PiT have completely abdicated their once-conservative principles and are just willing to chase whatever ideology or lack thereof in the pursuit of victory. I was never willing to cross the ideological hemispheres to elect a President who blatantly didn't agree with me on most core issues, but maybe I'm just old fashioned (and "irrelevant"!).

If anything PiT has gotten more Conservative not less. I remember when he was a raging libertarian with yellow avatar.

     Which I think is a big part of why I see nothing all that incredible about fhtagn's trajectory. Other than that I started on the right in economics and she started on the left, it's very similar to my own; we have proceeded by discarding previously inviolable dogmas and gradually opening up to conservative ideas on what constitutes good government. Neither one of us is exactly described by the word "conservative", but the line of influence is there (much more strongly in my case as it happens).

PiT, if you or anybody else had went from flaming leftist to Confederate apologizer in a matter of weeks after switching parties - all the while continuing to post very left-wing commentary on the forum - I'd be asking the same questions (unless you were like 14 years old or something).

Again, I - really more than anybody else! - understand the natural progression of people changing ideology. How many of your old voters found their way to Labor over the years? A lot! FFS, Hagrid just registered as Labor the other day!

I probably saw more defections from one hemisphere to the other that benefited me at the time than anybody else in the game ever. But they didn't abruptly switch from Fed to Lab (though plenty back in the day did switch from Lab to Fed out of spite - but at least they were honest about it) and then pretend to be conservative, and even if there was one or two who did, they didn't get the Labor Party's endorsement in the next election.

     Tell me, have you ever considered why you have seen so many defections to your camp? It should be easy for you to understand that since you know the natural progression of people changing ideology so well. Puzzle me that and I can tell you why this instance flows the other way. (BTW, if your answer is going to be something hackish like "the left is the path of truth and justice!", then spare me it.)

The forum is left leaning and young. That means these teenagers, who dont have a 100% developed ideology, are influenced by the other posters who are most of them really left leaning, so this has a big impact on their political views, so that explains their leftwing shift.

     That is exactly what I was going for, much appreciated. Quite a few people change quickly within weeks of joining the forum. Consider that 1) fhtagn started dealing substantially with right-wingers on the forum when she had previously avoided such things and that 2) she is an INTJ and we are emotional late-bloomers such that substantial ideological shifts in our 20s is not an unlikely occurrence. I include myself; I became an anarcho-capitalist and then swore it off well past the age that most of these teens do this. Once again there is a clear parallel in development here; the person in question started off with an extremist ideology and transitioned away from it in favor of a more practical and more moderate ideology.

     Of course I don't know for sure what anyone else is thinking, but my point is that this isn't nearly as improbable a feat as Griffin implies, and it rings true with my own real experience of ideological development (an experience that differs greatly from the norm on account of me differing greatly from the norm).

Also being surrounded by lefties can have the opposite effect. You can come to view them as arrogant, self-righteous and intolerant of dissent. Once you do that, you can explore ideas from a different lens and come to a completely different conclusion.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As far as I am aware, I can claim the Coolidge excuse for being the most fiscally conservative President since the reset (ie Congress did nothing). Because the 3 bills Congress managed to squeeze out in the 4th Congress, dealt with Fremont, Voting laws and Game Mechanics (Deputy GM), none of which added a dime to the deficit.

Every other President since reset has added to the deficit without putting too fine a point in finding out "what the hell is going on". Did then Vice President Lumine take leadership on this before the expiring of the FY2016 RL funding inherited from the reset on Sept 30, 2016? He could have since he saved all that time by not tracking bills coming out of each chamber.

The Budget Process and Control Act is by definition the most fiscally conservative bill to come out of Nyman, because it basically says we are going to find out "what the hell is going on" and since its adoption the activity of the Fhtagn administration and direct engagement are going to be a fixture in the completion of the Budget Process Committee, which is already ahead of schedule in terms of compiling old statute and beginning to incorporate that in. Others can talk about fiscal responsibility until they are blue in the face, but leading on it and getting it done is what matters! I am not sure what label Adam attaches to fiscal responsibility, I know what label I would.

And yes this is a bipartisan effort, but just because it is bipartisan doesn't mean it isn't fiscally responsible nor does it make it "echo-chamber consensus". It is taking a direct hands on approach to something that everyone agrees needs to be done, so that those people can come to the table and get it done. That is leadership!

On so many issues Labor has agreed to work with us to get stuff done. This isn't a failure of the system or us abandoning our principles. Labor has moved to the center on a number of issues and hopped on board with a Compromise healthcare bill that regionalized healthcare regulation (Fhtagn was Co-Sponsor). This bill is remarkably similar to the one that was past by a Federalist Administration with little help from Labor in the era of TNF. In many  areas where it differed, was where it was actually more conservative (Consolidation of gov't offices, Atlascare opt-out, a cap on the subsidies indexed to inflation and the Health Savings Accounts are much less restricted and taxed than in the 2014 bill).

2014 Vote:

Vote on Final Passage of the Reforming Atlasian Public Health Act of 2014:

Aye (6): DC al Fine, Goldwater, Lumine, NC Yankee, shua and TyriontheImperialist
Nay (0):
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (4): Adam Griffin, Alfred F. Jones, bore and TNF

The legislation has passed and is presented to the President for his signature or veto.

Lumine not only voted for the 2014 bill, he helped write it with. I know because I was there, in the room when it was crafted with him, Duke and Shua present.

Fhtagn Co-Sponsored a bill that is more conservative then one that Lumine helped us write and ultimately voted for. Both were great bills don't get me wrong, my point is not to attack Lumine here, but to note that it is ridiculous to claim that he is some true conservative closer to our principles then Fhtagn whose vote and position places her slightly to right of Lumine's on healthcare.

And Fhtagn's administration is actually going to get the regions involved and get them set up for success in passing regional healthcare regulations, something that Lumine's administration in late 2014 did not prioritize, despite him having complete knowledge of the necessity.

I am not sure what label Adam attaches to devolving healthcare regulations, but I know what label I would.

The notion that Fhtagn doesn't support our party's principles is insane.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Literally the only viable defense (in my own opinion, of course) that the Feds can mount for the nomination of fhtagn is "well she may be a raging left-winger, but she's willing to play something different on TV (maybe)!".

Which may work - who am I to say these days? - but I arguably find the most distressing part of this to be the fact that people like Yankee and PiT have completely abdicated their once-conservative principles and are just willing to chase whatever ideology or lack thereof in the pursuit of victory. I was never willing to cross the ideological hemispheres to elect a President who blatantly didn't agree with me on most core issues, but maybe I'm just old fashioned (and "irrelevant"!).

If anything PiT has gotten more Conservative not less. I remember when he was a raging libertarian with yellow avatar.

     Which I think is a big part of why I see nothing all that incredible about fhtagn's trajectory. Other than that I started on the right in economics and she started on the left, it's very similar to my own; we have proceeded by discarding previously inviolable dogmas and gradually opening up to conservative ideas on what constitutes good government. Neither one of us is exactly described by the word "conservative", but the line of influence is there (much more strongly in my case as it happens).

PiT, if you or anybody else had went from flaming leftist to Confederate apologizer in a matter of weeks after switching parties - all the while continuing to post very left-wing commentary on the forum - I'd be asking the same questions (unless you were like 14 years old or something).

Again, I - really more than anybody else! - understand the natural progression of people changing ideology. How many of your old voters found their way to Labor over the years? A lot! FFS, Hagrid just registered as Labor the other day!

I probably saw more defections from one hemisphere to the other that benefited me at the time than anybody else in the game ever. But they didn't abruptly switch from Fed to Lab (though plenty back in the day did switch from Lab to Fed out of spite - but at least they were honest about it) and then pretend to be conservative, and even if there was one or two who did, they didn't get the Labor Party's endorsement in the next election.

     Tell me, have you ever considered why you have seen so many defections to your camp? It should be easy for you to understand that since you know the natural progression of people changing ideology so well. Puzzle me that and I can tell you why this instance flows the other way. (BTW, if your answer is going to be something hackish like "the left is the path of truth and justice!", then spare me it.)

The forum is left leaning and young. That means these teenagers, who dont have a 100% developed ideology, are influenced by the other posters who are most of them really left leaning, so this has a big impact on their political views, so that explains their leftwing shift.

     That is exactly what I was going for, much appreciated. Quite a few people change quickly within weeks of joining the forum. Consider that 1) fhtagn started dealing substantially with right-wingers on the forum when she had previously avoided such things and that 2) she is an INTJ and we are emotional late-bloomers such that substantial ideological shifts in our 20s is not an unlikely occurrence. I include myself; I became an anarcho-capitalist and then swore it off well past the age that most of these teens do this. Once again there is a clear parallel in development here; the person in question started off with an extremist ideology and transitioned away from it in favor of a more practical and more moderate ideology.

     Of course I don't know for sure what anyone else is thinking, but my point is that this isn't nearly as improbable a feat as Griffin implies, and it rings true with my own real experience of ideological development (an experience that differs greatly from the norm on account of me differing greatly from the norm).

Also being surrounded by lefties can have the opposite effect. You can come to view them as arrogant, self-righteous and intolerant of dissent. Once you do that, you can explore ideas from a different lens and come to a completely different conclusion.

     There is risk to viewing people through a deterministic lens; different people react differently to influences. Many folks cleave to the opinions of those surrounding them, but some dissent. I knew quite a few classmates at UC Berkeley who professed to me that their experience at the university had caused them to become more conservative.

     Cleaving to the normal opinion does tend to be the more common phenomenon though, owing largely to herd mentality and groupthink. When people are part of a group, they naturally internalize its ideology. When you leave that group there comes a point where you start to question that ideology, and that is a particularly fertile time for ideological evolution.