Biden's "anti-populist" triangulation NEW:Biden talks working w/ segregationists

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

People finally found out Biden isn't a DSA populist? His senate record was quite a lot to the right of Hillary's actually. But muh Wall Street speeches.

Biden being to the right of Hillary is certainly not incompatible with Hillary being too right-wing. Also, she's more of a hawk.

[Kingpoleon]

Biden is really obviously making plays to solidify the support of the pragmatic wing of the Democratic party. He's also doing it in a typical Joe Biden way by talking without a lot of discretion. Honestly, he is courting to speak to Democrats like me, although he could be doing a better job. If he were 20 years younger I'd be very curious to see how it turned out for him, but I think for various reasons relating to his age he probably isn't going to garner a ton of support by 2020 anyway.

Quite frankly, Joe Biden is Joe Biden is Joe Biden. Every single Senator likes the man who is the friend of every Democrat, of Helms, of Thurmond.

[publicunofficial]

It's basically the same message and platform that used to get him 4th or 5th place in the Iowa caucus in all those presidential runs.


Also the population of "Pragmatic centrist Democrats" is vastly vastly overrated and mostly a creation of op-ed columnists.

[BlueSwan]

Unfortunately there are not many radical centrist Democrat as the Democratic base is overwhelmingly progressive. Biden would ,like Hilary, need a landslide win among the progressive black community & even then it may not be enough.

BTW latest results of Pew Research -

(Of Dem/Lean Dem voters - 93% say Income inequality is a very big/moderately big problem - 91% of all Blacks & 84% of Hispanics vs 80% of Whites. 73% of Dems think Corporations make too much profit, 57% of Dems want taxes on 250K+ Income people raised, 69% want taxes on Big corporations to be raised).

Being progressive does not mean that one has to support candidates with no chance to win.

I'm at least as progressive as most Sanders supporters. I support SSM (and I always have, I never "evolved"), affirmative action, single-payer universal healthcare, outlawing guns, free college/university tuition, universal voter registration, severely restricting political donations, higher minimum wage, greater income redistribution, MUCH stricter environmental regulations, Wall Street regulations and higher taxes to pay for all of it. I believe that the US should play a leading role in international politics, but through the means of soft power rather than military might.

Yet I always support pragmatic mainstream candidates both in the US and in my home country. I don't believe in revolutions. The hard right and hard left share the illusion that their ideas are supported by the majority, be it silent or not. That's just not true. For every right winger there is a left winger and vice versa. Progress is made in increments by arguing your case convincingly and making gradual changes that a majority can support. It's boring and longwinded, but it's the only way it's going to work. Purity tests is not a good idea in a democracy.

I supported Hillary Clinton over Sanders because I believed that she had the competence, the knowledge of issues and the negotiation skills required to create a bit of progress. Not a lot - certainly not with a GOP congress - but a bit. I believed and still believe that Sanders for one wouldn't beat *any* somewhat electable GOP candidate and furthermore would be incredibly inefficient in office as most populists are. How would a purity guy like Sanders get anything done at all with a republican congress? It would be one massive disappointment to the entire progressive movement, that would probably hurt democratic turnout in future elections.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Unfortunately there are not many radical centrist Democrat as the Democratic base is overwhelmingly progressive. Biden would ,like Hilary, need a landslide win among the progressive black community & even then it may not be enough.

BTW latest results of Pew Research -

(Of Dem/Lean Dem voters - 93% say Income inequality is a very big/moderately big problem - 91% of all Blacks & 84% of Hispanics vs 80% of Whites. 73% of Dems think Corporations make too much profit, 57% of Dems want taxes on 250K+ Income people raised, 69% want taxes on Big corporations to be raised).

Being progressive does not mean that one has to support candidates with no chance to win.

I'm at least as progressive as most Sanders supporters. I support SSM (and I always have, I never "evolved"), affirmative action, single-payer universal healthcare, outlawing guns, free college/university tuition, universal voter registration, severely restricting political donations, higher minimum wage, greater income redistribution, MUCH stricter environmental regulations, Wall Street regulations and higher taxes to pay for all of it. I believe that the US should play a leading role in international politics, but through the means of soft power rather than military might.

Yet I always support pragmatic mainstream candidates both in the US and in my home country. I don't believe in revolutions. The hard right and hard left share the illusion that their ideas are supported by the majority, be it silent or not. That's just not true. For every right winger there is a left winger and vice versa. Progress is made in increments by arguing your case convincingly and making gradual changes that a majority can support. It's boring and longwinded, but it's the only way it's going to work. Purity tests is not a good idea in a democracy.

I supported Hillary Clinton over Sanders because I believed that she had the competence, the knowledge of issues and the negotiation skills required to create a bit of progress. Not a lot - certainly not with a GOP congress - but a bit. I believed and still believe that Sanders for one wouldn't beat *any* somewhat electable GOP candidate and furthermore would be incredibly inefficient in office as most populists are. How would a purity guy like Sanders get anything done at all with a republican congress? It would be one massive disappointment to the entire progressive movement, that would probably hurt democratic turnout in future elections.

You didn't learn anything from Hillary's defeat. Sad!

[BlueSwan]

You didn't learn anything from Hillary's defeat. Sad!

Better than learning the wrong lesson. Your reaction is akin to those conservative who always complain that they lost because their candidate wasn't conservative enough, ignoring that elections are very rarely won by wing candidates. There is good reason why political strategy has been dominated by the idea of conquering the center.

[TheSaint250]

You didn't learn anything from Hillary's defeat. Sad!

Better than learning the wrong lesson. Your reaction is akin to those conservative who always complain that they lost because their candidate wasn't conservative enough, ignoring that elections are very rarely won by wing candidates. There is good reason why political strategy has been dominated by the idea of conquering the center.

[Canis]

it looks like 2020 might turn into Biden vs Sanders or Biden VS Warren any prediction for what that primary map might look like?

[publicunofficial]

You didn't learn anything from Hillary's defeat. Sad!

Better than learning the wrong lesson. Your reaction is akin to those conservative who always complain that they lost because their candidate wasn't conservative enough, ignoring that elections are very rarely won by wing candidates. There is good reason why political strategy has been dominated by the idea of conquering the center.

You...do know that Trump is President right?

[Rookie Yinzer]

You didn't learn anything from Hillary's defeat. Sad!

Hillary's loss does not mean going to the fringe left will win an election in a center-right country.

[publicunofficial]

You didn't learn anything from Hillary's defeat. Sad!

Hillary's loss does not mean going to the fringe left will win an election in a center-right country.

Slamming my head into my desk, thank you RFKFan.

[Rookie Yinzer]

You didn't learn anything from Hillary's defeat. Sad!

Hillary's loss does not mean going to the fringe left will win an election in a center-right country.

Slamming my head into my desk, thank you RFKFan.

Anytime, I guess.

[Mr. Morden]

Now Biden talks fondly of his relationship with Strom Thurmond:

http://www.postandcourier.com/politics/joe-biden-on-why-he-s-involved-in-s-c/article_e85584e2-ab1b-11e7-a1ee-7bbf5d95bef6.html

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Biden did have a point that Washington used to work well and people could be civil to each other and compromise even when they disagreed.

But what he seems to have missed, or ignored, is that Washington was fundamentally different. Incivility, inability to compromise or even govern aren't causes they're symptoms. Pretending that if politicians will just talk to each other nicely inequality, bigotry, and extremism will just vanish is as dumb as Trump.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

You didn't learn anything from Hillary's defeat. Sad!

Better than learning the wrong lesson. Your reaction is akin to those conservative who always complain that they lost because their candidate wasn't conservative enough, ignoring that elections are very rarely won by wing candidates. There is good reason why political strategy has been dominated by the idea of conquering the center.

Elections aren't won by appealing to some mythical centrist swing voter that votes for the candidate most similar to them on the issues that they're all completely centrist on. Elections are won by turning out your base and giving people a reason to vote for you. Reagan did better against Carter than Ford would have done against Kennedy.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Now Biden talks fondly of his relationship with Strom Thurmond:

http://www.postandcourier.com/politics/joe-biden-on-why-he-s-involved-in-s-c/article_e85584e2-ab1b-11e7-a1ee-7bbf5d95bef6.html

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Talking about Strom Thurmond did wonders for Trent Lott's political career.

[publicunofficial]

"Folks, let me tell you about my good personal friend, the late George Wallace, and how he would feel ashamed of Trump's tweeting."

Seriously, what the f**k is he doing?

[Shadows]

I don't know what exactly is this fringe left coming from? If anything Bernie's policy proposals are supported by a majority on most issues making him the default center to center-left.

Biden if anything is to right of the voters. And much much to the right of the Dem electorate. Biden is a fringe candidate policy wise - His views of Iraq War, Marijuana etc are extreme ones.

Anyways people don't care about economic scores or center-left or center-right. You will have people going from Feingold to Johnson in Wisconsin. I don't know who came up with this dumb idea that so-called centrists can win. If anything these radical so-called centrists have been proven unelectable. Only a progressive can beat Trump.

[Famous Mortimer]

It's so funny that in the quest to find new voters, the Democratic establishment would rather say nice things about segregation than endorse social democratic policies.

[BlueSwan]

You didn't learn anything from Hillary's defeat. Sad!

Better than learning the wrong lesson. Your reaction is akin to those conservative who always complain that they lost because their candidate wasn't conservative enough, ignoring that elections are very rarely won by wing candidates. There is good reason why political strategy has been dominated by the idea of conquering the center.

Elections aren't won by appealing to some mythical centrist swing voter that votes for the candidate most similar to them on the issues that they're all completely centrist on. Elections are won by turning out your base and giving people a reason to vote for you. Reagan did better against Carter than Ford would have done against Kennedy.

Elections aren't won by boring status quo centrists, but they ARE won by charismatic politicans that have centrist appeal. You can't nominate a purist and expect to win.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

You didn't learn anything from Hillary's defeat. Sad!

Better than learning the wrong lesson. Your reaction is akin to those conservative who always complain that they lost because their candidate wasn't conservative enough, ignoring that elections are very rarely won by wing candidates. There is good reason why political strategy has been dominated by the idea of conquering the center.

Elections aren't won by appealing to some mythical centrist swing voter that votes for the candidate most similar to them on the issues that they're all completely centrist on. Elections are won by turning out your base and giving people a reason to vote for you. Reagan did better against Carter than Ford would have done against Kennedy.

Elections aren't won by boring status quo centrists, but they ARE won by charismatic politicans that have centrist appeal. You can't nominate a purist and expect to win.

The person who got more amendments passed than anyone else in the 1995-2006 Republican controlled House of Representatives isn't some pie in the sky purist.

[TheSaint250]

I don't know what exactly is this fringe left coming from? If anything Bernie's policy proposals are supported by a majority on most issues making him the default center to center-left.

Biden if anything is to right of the voters. And much much to the right of the Dem electorate. Biden is a fringe candidate policy wise - His views of Iraq War, Marijuana etc are extreme ones.

Anyways people don't care about economic scores or center-left or center-right. You will have people going from Feingold to Johnson in Wisconsin. I don't know who came up with this dumb idea that so-called centrists can win. If anything these radical so-called centrists have been proven unelectable. Only a progressive can beat Trump.

Is this more of that “Bernie would be a centrist” bs?

[Shadows]

I don't know what exactly is this fringe left coming from? If anything Bernie's policy proposals are supported by a majority on most issues making him the default center to center-left.

Biden if anything is to right of the voters. And much much to the right of the Dem electorate. Biden is a fringe candidate policy wise - His views of Iraq War, Marijuana etc are extreme ones.

Anyways people don't care about economic scores or center-left or center-right. You will have people going from Feingold to Johnson in Wisconsin. I don't know who came up with this dumb idea that so-called centrists can win. If anything these radical so-called centrists have been proven unelectable. Only a progressive can beat Trump.

Is this more of that “Bernie would be a centrist” bs?

Naah, he is a left wing politician with broad support from the public on sane rational policies while the entire Republican party is a radical fringe extremist group in terms of policy decisions. There is nothing called a moderate Republican anymore. Those died with the Rockefeller.

But anyways, this is irrelevant to the topic & let us not start another ridiculous irrelevant discussion.