Jefferson latest target of protestors

[SoLongAtlas]

Protesters have draped a shroud over a statue of Thomas Jefferson at UVA "and put up signs that called him a "rapist" and "racist"." http://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/UVA-president-criticizes-Jefferson-statue-shrouding-444304763.html

The president of UVA, Teresa Sullivan, has criticized these moves. UVA won't tolerate attacks on TJ but would be ok with looking the other way re Lee, Jackson, etc.

Thoughts on this?

[Koharu]

"The demonstrators called Tuesday night for the university to meet demands issued by the Black Student Alliance after the white nationalist rallies. They include the removal of Confederate plaques on the Rotunda and adding context to the Jefferson statue."

I think those are perfectly reasonable demands.

[TheSaint250]

"The demonstrators called Tuesday night for the university to meet demands issued by the Black Student Alliance after the white nationalist rallies. They include the removal of Confederate plaques on the Rotunda and adding context to the Jefferson statue."

I think those are perfectly reasonable demands.

What do they mean by adding context? Didn't read the article.

And yeah they should take down the plaques to the confederacy

[Bismarck]

Take down the confederate stuff sure that's fine. But don't mess with Jefferson. He was a very flawed man but he is one of the greatest freedom fighters in all of human history. If anyone deserves statues with no asterisks it's him.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

First they came for Robert E Lee, and I did not speak out.

[rob in cal]

  Hopefully this will inaugurate a full scale debate on whether we should be honoring slave owner Presidents, Presidents who were pro-life, anti-gay marriage Presidents, and Presidents who were against non-white immigration into the US.  

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I thought the Sherman statues would be next.

[Alabama_Indy10]

 Hopefully this will inaugurate a full scale debate on whether we should be honoring slave owner Presidents, Presidents who were pro-life, anti-gay marriage Presidents, and Presidents who were against non-white immigration into the US.  

This is one of the most idiotic things I've ever read. You're fine with erasing history if you don't agree with it. That's just dumb.

[rob in cal]

  Alabama, you do realize I was being sarcastic?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

The demands seem reasonable.

Jefferson, like most human beings did both good and bad throughout his life. On the good side, he far, far outclasses Confederate generals (and most of us today, too). Jefferson rebelled against a bad government that refused to give his fellow Americans representation.

The generals had their 'greatest' personal moments slaughtering their fellow countrymen and revolting against their own working government so that they could continue to refuse representation (and be free to inflict many other great horrors) on a selection of their fellow Americans.

(I also think that Jefferson's relationship with his dead wife's younger sister is near never publicly addressed as being as complicated as it clearly was.)

[TheSaint250]

The demands seem reasonable.

Jefferson, like most human beings did both good and bad throughout his life. On the good side, he far, far outclasses Confederate generals (and most of us today, too). Jefferson rebelled against a bad government that refused to give his fellow Americans representation.

The generals had their 'greatest' personal moments slaughtering their fellow countrymen and revolting against their own working government so that they could continue to refuse representation (and be free to inflict many other great horrors) on a selection of their fellow Americans.

(I also think that Jefferson's relationship with his dead wife's younger sister is near never publicly addressed as being as complicated as it clearly was.)

Huh. Never knew he had that relationship.

[Mr. Reactionary]

The "Confederate plaque" is a list of UVA students who died during the Civil War. It is adjacent to other plaques listing the names of UVA students who died in the World Wars and Vietnam. Here is what it looks like. Sorry if it triggers anyone.

[TheSaint250]

The "Confederate plaque" is a list of UVA students who died during the Civil War. It is adjacent to other plaques listing the names of UVA students who died in the World Wars and Vietnam. Here is what it looks like. Sorry if it triggers anyone.

Ok this should stay

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

When was the plaque put up?

[Zioneer]

The demands seem reasonable.

Jefferson, like most human beings did both good and bad throughout his life. On the good side, he far, far outclasses Confederate generals (and most of us today, too). Jefferson rebelled against a bad government that refused to give his fellow Americans representation.

The generals had their 'greatest' personal moments slaughtering their fellow countrymen and revolting against their own working government so that they could continue to refuse representation (and be free to inflict many other great horrors) on a selection of their fellow Americans.

(I also think that Jefferson's relationship with his dead wife's younger sister is near never publicly addressed as being as complicated as it clearly was.)

I've never heard about that last part, do you have any links or books we could read about it?

[Mr. Reactionary]

When was the plaque put up?

Closer in proximity to the Civil War than the World War 2 Memorial in D.C. was to World War 2. Pretty quick considering the near total devastation in the South after the war.

[Zioneer]

The "Confederate plaque" is a list of UVA students who died during the Civil War. It is adjacent to other plaques listing the names of UVA students who died in the World Wars and Vietnam. Here is what it looks like. Sorry if it triggers anyone.

Oh, I have no problem with that; it looks pretty small, and my main opposition is to honoring the generals and other leaders of the Confederacy.

[TheSaint250]

The "Confederate plaque" is a list of UVA students who died during the Civil War. It is adjacent to other plaques listing the names of UVA students who died in the World Wars and Vietnam. Here is what it looks like. Sorry if it triggers anyone.

Oh, I have no problem with that; it looks pretty small, and my main opposition is to honoring the generals and other leaders of the Confederacy.

This.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

The demands seem reasonable.

Jefferson, like most human beings did both good and bad throughout his life. On the good side, he far, far outclasses Confederate generals (and most of us today, too). Jefferson rebelled against a bad government that refused to give his fellow Americans representation.

The generals had their 'greatest' personal moments slaughtering their fellow countrymen and revolting against their own working government so that they could continue to refuse representation (and be free to inflict many other great horrors) on a selection of their fellow Americans.

Wikipedia is a good place to start

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Hemings

(I also think that Jefferson's relationship with his dead wife's younger sister is near never publicly addressed as being as complicated as it clearly was.)

I've never heard about that last part, do you have any links or books we could read about it?

[Illiniwek]

Oh please people...this isn't helping anyone.

[vanguard96]

I thought the Sherman statues would be next.

I believe according to these people's views, you're a Confederate apologist if you mention the Sherman angle.

[vanguard96]

  Alabama, you do realize I was being sarcastic?

I knew you were being sarcastic.

[not sarcastic]But the various controversies discovered 20-30, even 100 years after the fact makes you wonder why the president should be so powerful in the first place if they are that 'terrible'.[/not sarcastic]

[Deblano]

Jefferson wasn't perfect, but vandalizing and calling for the removal of his statues is just gonna piss off and alienate a lot of people.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I'm honestly torn on the issue. While I totally understand removing monuments dedicated specifically to praise the evil Confederate cause and its leaders, I don't want this to go too far. In my country I strongly oppose removing memorials to the Soviet soldiers who died on the Polish soil while liberating it from the Nazis (yes, for all other problems, it was a liberation from a genocidal occupation), because it's just wrong. I would let memorials dedicated simply to soldiers who lost their lives in a terrible civil war remain undisturbed.

As of Jefferson, he was a POS, but other things, namely his historical legacy (come on, he was a great American stateman), must be taken into a consideration. I'm not comfortable with erasing history.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

The demands seem reasonable.

Jefferson, like most human beings did both good and bad throughout his life. On the good side, he far, far outclasses Confederate generals (and most of us today, too). Jefferson rebelled against a bad government that refused to give his fellow Americans representation.

The generals had their 'greatest' personal moments slaughtering their fellow countrymen and revolting against their own working government so that they could continue to refuse representation (and be free to inflict many other great horrors) on a selection of their fellow Americans.

(I also think that Jefferson's relationship with his dead wife's younger sister is near never publicly addressed as being as complicated as it clearly was.)

Huh. Never knew he had that relationship.

He means Sally Hemings, who was the illegitimate daughter of Betty Hemings and John Wayles (Martha Jefferson's father).