Name a government program that does work

[A18]

Getting a sh**tty return on some money you pay into Social Security means that the system works?

[John Dibble]

Utilities in most areas are run by private corporations. Try telling me with a straight face that they do a good job.

My power company is privately run - they don an exceptional job. If the power goes out they work tirelessly to get it back on, even in the worst weather conditions(and compensate their employees well in such situations to boot).

Here's a good one: health care. Are greedy HMO's any better than socialized health care?

Greedy HMO's? Well, I don't use them, and HMOs do have problems. Frankly though, most of my experiences with private health care have been very positive.

Here's another one: education. Overall, I've received a much better education from public schools than from private schools, after spending a roughly equal amount of time in each.

Your experience alone is not a valid way to show that one generally outperforms the other.

I think the main reason why these government services work better than their privately owned counterparts is that they are less focused on making money. (My experience has been that even private schools try to make money.) Profits are not a big priority outside the corporate world.

Then why don't we just advocate communism? Oh, wait, that's right - because when the government tries to run everything it results in crap. Government does crappy when it tries most things because it has no competition - it has no fear of going out of business. Private enterprise on the other hand MUST perform well if it is going to stay in business. Private enterprise wants money, sure, but to get money it can't provide afford to provide a crappy service for high prices unless it's a monopoly.

[bullmoose88]

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.  It doesn't work now, and it was doomed for failure when it started in the 1930s.  The concept is I take your $50 and promise you $100 in a month.  To get your $100, I take from at least two more people $50 with the same claim I made to my first customer.  It fails when I cannot find enough support at the lowest levels to support those on top.  
Now if you or I were to do this, it would be illegal (as it was for Charles Ponzi in the 1920s), but when government does it, it's mandated and forced on us. Double standard?
However, I'm much more concerned with managing my retirement fund than government is, and I have much more confidence in myself to do it.  

I don't understand your reference to air ballons, are you implying that without government, they'd be no cars or something?

The Soc. Security program was not a ponzi scheme when it was first created by law. The current generation paid for its own future retirement (more of a government mandated savings plan than anything), not the retirement for the generation hitting the retirement age.

It wasn't until say 1937-38 when the system changed to a ponzi type scheme. Seems the real problem will come out when those getting benefits outweigh so severely those paying in. And that would come about with a population boom followed by declining birthrates/immigration rates...which could happen with a large retirement of baby boomers.

But...its unlikely such a massive retirement would happen at once...plus...with immigration you still have a growing labor force (unlike say the supposed horror stories in Europe).

The moral aspects about the SSA program aside...it seems to work fine when there aren't massive changes in the population.

[Jake]

I can only imagine the government running my cable company. It already takes them a week to schedule service calls.

[ilikeverin]

When there's a problem, someone will figure a way to fix it, make it better for everyone, and get rich off it. 

Welcome to extreme-libertarian la-la land.

I mean, don't get me wrong: I believe in free markets, competition, and all that, but your level of naivete is astounding.  People, as a general rule, are crooked.  They will screw over and destroy the lives of others in the path towards profit, if that path is the path of least resistance.  It's just the way people are.

Yes, there are those kind souls who fix problems for the good of humanity, and any profit to come out of the enterprise is secondary and incidental.  But those people are rare.  For every one person who is willing to work to fix a problem, there are 100 working to exploit it.

may I ask "Why do you believe your fellow man is crooked, yet expect your government to be any better?"

If the government is crooked, why would you expect the people to be any better?

[patrick1]

Most Americans get a good deal of bang for their buck through the Postal Service.

[Emsworth]

If the government is crooked, why would you expect the people to be any better?

I don't think that we claim that the government is crooked. It just tends to be inefficient.

[ilikeverin]

If the government is crooked, why would you expect the people to be any better?

I don't think that we claim that the government is crooked. It just tends to be inefficient.

Who says we can't make it more efficient without gutting the entire thing?

[Emsworth]

Who says we can't make it more efficient without gutting the entire thing?

Theoretically, the government could 100% efficient; but theoretically, private enterprise could also be 100% efficient.

But in practice, capitalism tends to be far more efficient than socialism. Obviously, there are a few exceptions; the military, for example, is one.

[ilikeverin]

Who says we can't make it more efficient without gutting the entire thing?

Theoretically, the government could 100% efficient; but theoretically, private enterprise could also be 100% efficient.

But in practice, capitalism tends to be far more efficient than socialism. Obviously, there are a few exceptions; the military, for example, is one.

Just because it has been less efficient does not mean it will always be less efficient.  Perhaps why government is so inefficient is because it's practically expected for it to be inefficient.

Or maybe it's because of all the pork and random, pointless bureaucracy

Oh well, just because there's always been random, pointless bureaucracy doesn't mean there will always need to be random, pointless bureaucracy *stubborn optimist*

[Bandit3 the Worker]

The desire to earn profits almost invariably results in the provision of better services. That is the essence of the capitalist system.

Capitalism is a fool's paradise and a failure.

If anyone thinks private health care is so great, they've never had any experiences with the American so-called health care system.

[Jake]

I personally have never had any problems when I needed to visit the doctor. I guess my private insurance sucks.

[MaC]

Most Americans get a good deal of bang for their buck through the Postal Service.

at least it's written into the Constitution.  However, I pose the same question that's argued in Browne's book, "If you had a package that absolutely had to be mailed 1000 miles away by tomorrow morning, would you send it by
a)The Post Office, a government agency
or
b)Fed-Ex, a private company whose sucess depends on being more reliable than it's competitors?

my choice is obvious.

[Emsworth]

Capitalism is a fool's paradise and a failure.

Of course not. It is, in fact, the only economic system which works. Socialism and Marxism are particularly inefficient.

[A18]

I personally have never had any problems when I needed to visit the doctor. I guess my private insurance sucks.

[bullmoose88]

Most Americans get a good deal of bang for their buck through the Postal Service.

at least it's written into the Constitution.  However, I pose the same question that's argued in Browne's book, "If you had a package that absolutely had to be mailed 1000 miles away by tomorrow morning, would you send it by
a)The Post Office, a government agency
or
b)Fed-Ex, a private company whose sucess depends on being more reliable than it's competitors?

my choice is obvious.

But your assumption that all people act rationally...is flawed.

God forbid anyone trust FedEx...I'm a UPS guy myself.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Capitalism is a fool's paradise and a failure.

Of course not. It is, in fact, the only economic system which works.

Then why isn't it working in America?

[MaC]

Who says we can't make it more efficient without gutting the entire thing?

Theoretically, the government could 100% efficient; but theoretically, private enterprise could also be 100% efficient.

But in practice, capitalism tends to be far more efficient than socialism. Obviously, there are a few exceptions; the military, for example, is one.

Just because it has been less efficient does not mean it will always be less efficient.  Perhaps why government is so inefficient is because it's practically expected for it to be inefficient.

Or maybe it's because of all the pork and random, pointless bureaucracy

Oh well, just because there's always been random, pointless bureaucracy doesn't mean there will always need to be random, pointless bureaucracy *stubborn optimist*

the problem that exists is generally made worse through reform.  Per Jake and bandit's examples: Health care started getting more expensive after HMOs and medicare were enacted.   Funding kept pumping into it for those who cannot afford it, and consequently the price is driven up for everyone.

[A18]

Capitalism is a fool's paradise and a failure.

Of course not. It is, in fact, the only economic system which works.

Then why isn't it working in America?

American quality of life is among the highest in the world.

[MaC]

Capitalism is a fool's paradise and a failure.

Of course not. It is, in fact, the only economic system which works.

Then why isn't it working in America?

It was until regulators, social programs, pork barrel handouts, welfare, price controls, the income tax and redistributive payments tainted it.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Health care started getting more expensive after HMOs and medicare were enacted.

Medicare has existed for decades. Health care didn't start getting much more expensive until maybe the past 10 years or so, when HMO's started becoming a big deal.

[Emsworth]

Capitalism is a fool's paradise and a failure.

Of course not. It is, in fact, the only economic system which works.

Then why isn't it working in America?

American quality of life is one of the best in the world. Of course, capitalism is working. It could, in fact, be improved by repealing some of the excessive regulation now in effect.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

American quality of life is among the highest in the world.

Not when compared to Canada and Europe, which have more socialist touches.

[MaC]

American quality of life is among the highest in the world.

Not when compared to Canada and Europe, which have more socialist touches.

how is Canada really much different than here?  They're in large supported economically because the United States is a major trade partner. Same with some of Europe, although I'm sure all of Europe isn't peaches and cream, war-torn Bosnia for example.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

how is Canada really much different than here?

They don't have the Republicans to deal with.