WSJ: Special Counsel Mueller impanels Washington grand jury in Russia probe

[Hindsight was 2020]

Some nothingburger

[The Other Castro]

So, have many Democrats here let the idea of President Pence sink in yet?

It could happen, but not as soon as some may think. Investigations of this size seem to take a while, and I'm not sure if anything will be announced until 2019.

[RFayette 🇻🇦]

So, have many Democrats here let the idea of President Pence sink in yet?

I, for one, welcome our new Hoosier overlords

I like Mike!

[The_Doctor]

I see we're ahead of schedule on the "Donald J. Trump is Thrown Out of Washington On a Rail" plot arc. I did not anticipate this until 2018, 2019.

FWIW, I think Pence will need to be president to save the GOP Congressional majorities by 2018 and begin to believe he will be president in less than a year (I know, I'm still working out this prediction mentally; I'm not sure yet). I could be wrong but hey. I had assumed Trump would keep things together until November 2018, but now I'm beginning to be strongly skeptical that Trump can hold together the whole thing until past the midterms.

Oh yeah - there will be indictments galore. Prosecutors love grand juries. They are very pliable, from the bit of research I read.

[The_Doctor]

Basically, this is the Trump Administration: weak Republican unity, no major legislation enacted by September (the health care law actually went down to defeat!), a 37-57% approval rating, and a federal grand jury convened to investigate the president's son who responded to an email from someone who told him the Russian government wanted to elect the president. Yeah, they got a Supreme Court conservative to replace an equivalent conservative and a modified travel ban, but c'mon.

The President keeps fighting with members of his own party. In response, his party sent him a Russian sanctions bill that he basically was forced to sign. And a dead healthcare law.

Now, consider the whole of this and Pence's "Who, me?" act and insistence of looking like the "uninformed idiot" starts making a lot of sense. Anyone notice that repeatedly, every time this happens, Pence always lets it be known that someone lied to him or that he was somehow not told the entire truth?

Something tells me that Pence knows deep down that he has good odds of winding up President and intends to avoid the storm when it hits.

[Don Vito Corleone]

I actually think President Pence is an inevitability. Even if Trump manages to survive his full term, I bet this occurs:

Nov 3, 2020: Trump loses in a landslide.
Nov 2020-Jan 2021: Trump throws one of his fits, whines constantly about the media, makes accusations of vote fraud and everything under the sun, meanwhile people in Congress and various prosecutors hint he might be facing charges.
Jan. 18, 2020: Trump resigns, President Pence sworn in.
Jan. 19, 2020: President Pence pardons Trump and all his cronies.
Jan. 20, 2020: New President sworn in.

What a way to kneecap Republicans going into a favorable 2022 midterm.

Favorable? Have you seen the Senate map?

[mvd10]

I actually think President Pence is an inevitability. Even if Trump manages to survive his full term, I bet this occurs:

Nov 3, 2020: Trump loses in a landslide.
Nov 2020-Jan 2021: Trump throws one of his fits, whines constantly about the media, makes accusations of vote fraud and everything under the sun, meanwhile people in Congress and various prosecutors hint he might be facing charges.
Jan. 18, 2020: Trump resigns, President Pence sworn in.
Jan. 19, 2020: President Pence pardons Trump and all his cronies.
Jan. 20, 2020: New President sworn in.

What a way to kneecap Republicans going into a favorable 2022 midterm.

Favorable? Have you seen the Senate map?

Incumbent Democratic president probably. Republicans should be able to make decent gains in the house (especially if the Dems made gains in 2018 and/or 2020) and atleast retain all of their senate seats.

[Inmate Trump]

I'm increasingly convinced that his supporters will continue to support him no matter what happens.

There could be undeniable proof hitting the airwaves tomorrow that the president himself colluded with Putin to hack the election, and his supporters would still love him and vote for him in 2020.

Fox News would come up with a new narrative about how we're all really Russians anyway, and it's impossible to collude with oneself.  Or, "who wouldn't collude if given the opportunity? This is just politics as usual!"  Hannity would ramp up some "but what about Hillary's e-mails? Have we all forgotten those?" bs.

Trump voters would lap it all up.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Basically, this is the Trump Administration: weak Republican unity, no major legislation enacted by September (the health care law actually went down to defeat!), a 37-57% approval rating, and a federal grand jury convened to investigate the president's son who responded to an email from someone who told him the Russian government wanted to elect the president. Yeah, they got a Supreme Court conservative to replace an equivalent conservative and a modified travel ban, but c'mon.

The President keeps fighting with members of his own party. In response, his party sent him a Russian sanctions bill that he basically was forced to sign. And a dead healthcare law.

Now, consider the whole of this and Pence's "Who, me?" act and insistence of looking like the "uninformed idiot" starts making a lot of sense. Anyone notice that repeatedly, every time this happens, Pence always lets it be known that someone lied to him or that he was somehow not told the entire truth?

Something tells me that Pence knows deep down that he has good odds of winding up President and intends to avoid the storm when it hits.

I've been assuming all along that this is why he took the job in the first place. Because he figured that between Trump's personality, history, and health there was a much higher chance than usual that he would ascend to the presidency.

[Daniel909012]

I'm increasingly convinced that his supporters will continue to support him no matter what happens.

There could be undeniable proof hitting the airwaves tomorrow that the president himself colluded with Putin to hack the election, and his supporters would still love him and vote for him in 2020.

Fox News would come up with a new narrative about how we're all really Russians anyway, and it's impossible to collude with oneself.  Or, "who wouldn't collude if given the opportunity? This is just politics as usual!"  Hannity would ramp up some "but what about Hillary's e-mails? Have we all forgotten those?" bs.

Trump voters would lap it all up.

Months and nothing, trump will not be dismissed, stop crying and accept it, In the watergate nixon took 2 years, but in the first month there was already an accused

[Sir Mohamed]

I'm still doubtful when it comes to impeachment talk. As of now, I don't think it will happen any time soon if at all.

I actually think President Pence is an inevitability. Even if Trump manages to survive his full term, I bet this occurs:

Nov 3, 2020: Trump loses in a landslide.
Nov 2020-Jan 2021: Trump throws one of his fits, whines constantly about the media, makes accusations of vote fraud and everything under the sun, meanwhile people in Congress and various prosecutors hint he might be facing charges.
Jan. 18, 2021: Trump resigns, President Pence sworn in.
Jan. 19, 2021: President Pence pardons Trump and all his cronies.
Jan. 20, 2021: New President sworn in.

It may be possible that the new president is able to rescind the pardon. However, under these circumstances, I doubt that Pence would pardon Trump.

[PragmaticPopulist]

So, have many Democrats here let the idea of President Pence sink in yet?

I'd prefer him over Trump any day. That's assuming Pence doesn't get pulled into the investigation and is found to have been involved in some way. I find it hard to believe he didn't know anything if there was a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russian Government.

[GlobeSoc]

I see we're ahead of schedule on the "Donald J. Trump is Thrown Out of Washington On a Rail" plot arc. I did not anticipate this until 2018, 2019.

FWIW, I think Pence will need to be president to save the GOP Congressional majorities by 2018 and begin to believe he will be president in less than a year (I know, I'm still working out this prediction mentally; I'm not sure yet). I could be wrong but hey. I had assumed Trump would keep things together until November 2018, but now I'm beginning to be strongly skeptical that Trump can hold together the whole thing until past the midterms.

Oh yeah - there will be indictments galore. Prosecutors love grand juries. They are very pliable, from the bit of research I read.

Nah, I still think the time he will be impeached is September 2018-March 2019

[swf541]

So, have many Democrats here let the idea of President Pence sink in yet?

At least he has the temperament of a president and inst embarrassing

[Middle-aged Europe]

So, have many Democrats here let the idea of President Pence sink in yet?

At least he has the temperament of a president and inst as embarrassing as Trump

[Don Vito Corleone]

I'm increasingly convinced that his supporters will continue to support him no matter what happens.

There could be undeniable proof hitting the airwaves tomorrow that the president himself colluded with Putin to hack the election, and his supporters would still love him and vote for him in 2020.

Fox News would come up with a new narrative about how we're all really Russians anyway, and it's impossible to collude with oneself.  Or, "who wouldn't collude if given the opportunity? This is just politics as usual!"  Hannity would ramp up some "but what about Hillary's e-mails? Have we all forgotten those?" bs.

Trump voters would lap it all up.

Months and nothing, trump will not be dismissed, stop crying and accept it, In the watergate nixon took 2 years, but in the first month there was already an accused

There is no accusation? I thought it was a witch hunt? Is it a witch hunt without an accusation (now that's 4D Chess)?

[Silent Hunter]

If it's a witch hunt, they're finding cauldrons.

[ProudModerate2]

If it's a witch hunt, they're finding cauldrons.

[Inmate Trump]

I'm increasingly convinced that his supporters will continue to support him no matter what happens.

There could be undeniable proof hitting the airwaves tomorrow that the president himself colluded with Putin to hack the election, and his supporters would still love him and vote for him in 2020.

Fox News would come up with a new narrative about how we're all really Russians anyway, and it's impossible to collude with oneself.  Or, "who wouldn't collude if given the opportunity? This is just politics as usual!"  Hannity would ramp up some "but what about Hillary's e-mails? Have we all forgotten those?" bs.

Trump voters would lap it all up.

Months and nothing, trump will not be dismissed, stop crying and accept it, In the watergate nixon took 2 years, but in the first month there was already an accused

"Months and nothing" is quite inaccurate.  I'm guessing you don't get your news from anything other than Fox and Breitbart.

"Stop crying and accept it."  Are you referring to his election win?  If so, I accept it.  It happened, he was elected.  But if collusion occurred, why would anyone NOT want to find out?  There is more than enough to warrant a full investigation...which is why we have one.  The possibility of collusion is what I'm "crying" about, and frankly, if you're an American, then why aren't you crying about it too?  If you don't see how serious this is, then you shouldn't be here, and you also shouldn't vote because you have no semblance of morals, integrity, or character.

As for your last point re: Nixon and Watergate...your point is not well formed so I really don't know what you're trying to get at.  But I'll try.  Watergate and Russian collusion....two separate and completely different investigations, which are incomparable other than they both involve a presidential cover up.  Anyway, there are several accused parties in the Russian collusion investigation.

So feel free to rephrase your sentence (which was a run on).

[Virginiá]

Where did this idea that just because it is Trump under federal investigation, aka the person so many partisans have sworn a blood oath to, that a large, far-reaching investigation that in normal circumstances could take years to wrap up should suddenly be completed within months, or else there is likely nothing to it?

[pbrower2a]

So, have many Democrats here let the idea of President Pence sink in yet?

If it is necessary for keeping Seoul from being incinerated, then so be it.   Mike Pence is already contradicting President Trump on foreign policy. Dealing North Korea to China in the event of some egregious misbehavior, like firing an ICBM over Chinese airspace, is a win-0win for everyone but the leadership of the Kingdom of Northern Korea. 

Mike Pence could be more egregious on his economic and social agendas. Tough luck if your union is outlawed as an expression of freedom for plutocrats, but elections have consequences.

[Virginiá]

This was a good primer:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/03/what-is-a-grand-jury-trump-russia-mueller-investigation-215458

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[The Mikado]

Some of you are getting way too giddy on the timeframe. We're probably still a year or more out from real consequences.

[GeorgiaModerate]

This was a good primer:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/03/what-is-a-grand-jury-trump-russia-mueller-investigation-215458

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Nice article, thanks.

On a related note: Vox asked 20 law professors about the significance of this development.

[Doimper]

Some of you are getting way too giddy on the timeframe. We're probably still a year or more out from real consequences.

Perfect timing!